Progress Thread 2.3L - crank no start issue. Has spark, fuel, good compression.

[joystang]

Alright, been a while! Still not starting.

I picked up a smoke machine, found and fixed a couple minor leaks from the brake booster check valve and the iac. Had a ridiculous amount of smoke come out of the dipstick, replaced the piston rings, connector bearings, and related gaskets/head bolts. Now smoke will eventually come out of the dipstick if I leave the machine running but just a small amount.

Timing is spot on, all injectors are getting signals, all plugs are firing.

Did a dry compression test (5 cranks/avg of 3 readings):
1- 174psi
2- 173psi
3- 173psi
4- 164psi
Not sure if it matters but every cylinder on the first crank jumps to about 120psi then has diminishing jumps till the final reading.

Codes pulled:
334 - Egr closed voltage higher than expected (still installed but blocked off)
519 - Power steering circuit open (missing connector, debating on switching to manual rack)
565 - Canister purge circuit fail (came without)
558 - Egr regulator fail (came without)


I'm not sure how to upload videos, if someone can walk me through it I can put up clips of the above or anything needed to help diagnose.

Anyone have any ideas? It's just cranking, seems like it's going to start occasionally but never does. Starter fluid doesn't do anything, I don't have a numerical reading for the fuel pressure but when I depress the valve it sprays out with force. Throttle screw has been set to factory.

On a possibly separate note, is it normal for the reverse light to come on if the shifter gets pushed to far into park? Or is that a sign of a faulty s/n switch?

Thank you guys for all the help you've provided, hopefully it'll be running soon!

 

[90sickfox]

This is weird for a 2.3. The reverse lights should not come on when pushing the shifter up in park. Are you 100% sure your timing isn't 180° out. Air, spark, compression, and fuel is all it should take. Even if injectors weren't firing it should light off with a hit of starter fluid.

One " off the wall " reason a car may have all those things and not start. If the exhaust is plugged up the car will not start. I've only seen this once in 20 years on a buick century with a melted catalytic converter.

The crank position sensor can be checked with an oscilloscope. If its not reading it should throw a code. If the computer signal from the TPS thinks the throttle is wide open it will cut all fuel and go in flood clear mode. ( starter fluid shiukd work though ) A bad computer can keep it from starting. Usually a PRNDL position switch will make the car not crank when bad. Bypass is neutral position. Seems like you may know this stuff already.

 

[joystang]

Yeah this car is blowing my mind, it doesn't make sense.

I will have to look into my reverse light coming on. It cranks when in park but occasionally it will either get bumped by me or get vibrated forward slightly and my reverse lights kick on. They turn off if you pull back slightly on the shifter.

I'm 99.9% sure the timing is not 180° (no distributor, not sure how it could be set 180°) but I will check it again tonight after work.

I will have to check my exhaust. I don't think it's clogged, it doesn't have a cat and I've smoked tested it successfully from the exhaust pipe, but I haven't checked that yet.

I do not have access to an oscilloscope nor am I willing to purchase one just to test my ckps one time, but from testing it using a dmm and seeng if I get an on/off 10-12V signal, I do get a on/off signal but it's in the high 9V (not sure if that matters or if it's like the tps and just needs to be close)

Is there a way to test the computer and icm or it just process of elimination? I've replaced everything in the ignition system (computer included) except for the Icm.

Lol I thought I knew what I was doing but this car is making me question myself ‍.

Thanks for your advice! I will post what I find once I get home!

 

[General karthief]

In a case like this, engine has compression, spark and fuel, something violent should happen, either inside a cylinder or in the intake (lean? Timing?) Or in the exhaust (rich? Timing retarded? Can I say that or is it 'impaired ')
The problem maybe a combination of things, you have spark, is it hot enough?
Engine turns over, is it turning fast enough?
If it's not spinning fast enough the air/fuel will be rich and likely to wet the plugs and a weak spark will not 'light the fire'.
Get the engine cranking over good with a battery that can spin it consistently for 10-12 seconds with the gas peddle mashed to the floor, keeping it mashed to the floor while waiting 10 seconds or so (holding it to the floor, key still on) crank it again for 10-12 seconds, repeat a third time, if the fuel pre is adequate, spark is there, even marginal, something should happen.
Does it have a 'spout' (never worked on a distributor -less ignition. On a distributor ignition removing the spout locks the timing so the computer will not adjust, it may start and at least run.
Things to check:
Computer, will it give out koeo codes?
Need to take actual fuel pressure readings, koeo and cranking pressure, this requires a gauge.
What color is the spark? Are the plugs black and dry or clean but wet?
Just the rambling of a back yard repair hack, none of the above should be mistaken for any real mechanical training.

 

[joystang]

It sounds like there's some action in the cylinders, just not enough.

I'll try and get a picture of the spark tester going off when I get home. I've never seen the tester have a blue spark but it is good sized and bright orange. When I pulled the plugs they were black, I didn't touch them to see if they were dry or wet, I just wiped the exhaust side clean. I will check the intake side to see if they're wet or not.

I have the recommended battery size currently, I don't remember the group or cca but I can also post when I get home. Not sure how to tell if the engine is spinning fast enough.

I haven't tried the exact procedure you listed but I have done similar and that's when I get it closest to starting.

The only codes getting pulled are the ones I posted (334, 519, 565, 558). None that should keep the engine from starting from what I know.

I have a fuel pressure tester coming tomorrow, I will post the results when I have them.

Still a couple hours from getting home, I will post my results as soon as I have them! Thanks again everyone!

 

[joystang]

Alright here are pics of the intake spark plugs (the one on top of the other 3 is cleaner because I rubbed it) and what I believe is the spout.

It's not letting me attach (too big) or upload (says "oops, we have run into some problems" ) the videos I have of the procedure General recommended, the spark tester on plugs 3&4 of the exhaust side (all the plugs look alike when firing on intake/exhaust) and the engine cranking with the spout pulled (still no start)

Battery is 550cca, 58-dl, sticker date 06/23. I have it fully charged when performing diagnostics.

Exhaust was clean and clear as far as I could get my inspection camera in it. Doesn't sound like there's any obstructions when tapping on the outside of where I couldn't get the camera.

I will post the fuel pressure readings tomorrow after I receive the tester. Let me know if there's anything else that you guys think of or how to post videos on here. Thanks!

 

[General karthief]

Those plugs are toast!
Change them right now or I'll cancel your subscription.
Or app.
Or whatever it's called today.

 

[joystang]

Lol those are new plugs, 0 miles on them. I can pick some new ones up probably tomorrow after I get paid.

 

[General karthief]

Just grab a set of plugs on sale, cheap copper autolites or similar ac delco or whatever they are called now, motorcraft is fine just buy cheap ones.
No bosch or ngk sparklers.

 

[joystang]

Lmao so I think we have uncovered the problem! After testing, doubting the functionality of the tester, typing up a good length post here ending with my current pumps specs when it smacked me like a pissed off ex... I had not payed attention to the pressure when I bought the Edelbrock 38gph universal pump because I was focused on the gph/lph. Pump operates at 4-7psi . Lol guess that's what I get for being human. Now that that mistake has been uncovered, any suggestions on a pump? It needs to be external (current tank won't take a internal one). I have the mustang stock fuel filter, injectors and rail installed.

Hopefully the new pump and plugs will get it running! I'd rather have those slightly embarrassing slip-ups be the issue than something more serious. Hope you guys get at least a chuckle out of this, I know I had to

 

[Noobz347]

What is the OEM pump in your car?

Is it the same 88lph in-tank pump we have in 5ohs?

 

[joystang]

I honestly do not know off the top of my head, when I originally got it it had an unmarked, beat up external pump that I was never able to identify and ended up replacing with the Edelbrock because it died while I was working on the vehicle. Let me see if I can find the OEM specs for it.

 

[Noobz347]

According to this:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRT-P74635H/applications

It's the same pump. If you're not going with boost, I'd replace it with an OEM style Walbro. If you are planning boost, a 190L High Pressure instead.

 

[joystang]

So far I have not been able to locate definitive specs for the OEM fuel pump. I think this is the part number F1ZZ-9A407-CA, but no one lists flow rate or psi. Went on Rock Auto and found one I think is correct or at least close.

 

[joystang]

No boost planned right now. I will check out the walbro, thanks!

 

[joystang]

Unless I'm looking at the wrong pump or it can be mounted externally, that won't work with my current tank. The tank I have is too small to fit an internal fuel pump. I will go take some pictures of my tank and post them in a little bit.

 

[joystang]

This was the walbro I came across

 

[Noobz347]

This was the walbro I came across

Yep... That's the OEM style pump that I'm familiar with. Is your fuel tank stock and is your car originally fuel injected?

 

[joystang]

Here's the tank

 

[joystang]

Yes it was originally fuel injected, definitely not OEM tank lol