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Don't know how to tell that Noobz. Enough to rapidly cool the engine down as soon as the WP is turned on is all I can say. Maybe the heater control valve is open and letting water bypass the tstat, maybe the tstat is stuck open, I doubt that those little 1/4 steel lines that I plumbed into the top of the exhaust ports are doing it though. Guess the way to test is to pinch off the hose that goes to heater control valve and observe water movement through radiator before and after the pinch.....:thinking:
So your WP, all by itself (with fans off), is overcooling your engine? Almost sounds like your engine is not generating enough heat fast enough. How long does it take for your car to reach 190? A normal amount of time?
 
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So your WP, all by itself (with fans off), is overcooling your engine? Almost sounds like your engine is not generating enough heat fast enough. How long does it take for your car to reach 190? A normal amount of time?
the engine will build heat. It takes about 5 minutes to get to 180 At 180 the fans come on,and go off at 170.if I don't turn the WP on, the temp will continue to rise. Once the pump is on though, the temp will drop to about 160, and that is where it stays.

Now what I haven't done is ran it long enough after that to see if it will reach 180 again. I know that physics should rule here, and once the water in the cooling system gets hot it all has to come up to 180 sooner or later. Maybe I'm just not running not long enough.

The other thing is that the engine is partially filled, and it is a I 6 after all. The water in the engine is probably less than 1/2 of the total water in the system.

Again, probably not running it long enough
 
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I thin the restrictor is a good idea. FWIW, my fathernlaw doesn't run a thermostat in his racecar, but does have a 4 core radiator and an electric pump. Everything is on toggle switches and he watches the temp before turning on the pump. He has said several times that simply flipping on the pump causes a dramatic drop in temps, now where they stay with the pump running, I don't know.

Joe
 
I suspect what you suspect. The entire cooing system is not up to temp yet.

Try letting it warm up with the pump running from the get go?

We'll see what happens.
If it isnt time, can you slow the pump or reduce rad size?

Naw the pump is electric, and there's no way in hell I'm changing that radiator.

I thin the restrictor is a good idea. FWIW, my fathernlaw doesn't run a thermostat in his racecar, but does have a 4 core radiator and an electric pump. Everything is on toggle switches and he watches the temp before turning on the pump. He has said several times that simply flipping on the pump causes a dramatic drop in temps, now where they stay with the pump running, I don't know.

Joe

I think if it truly comes down to a situation where the cooling system is dramatically oversized for the engine, I'll try to turn the pump on and off w/ the ECU to regulate the flow of water like you F.I.L. did w/ a mechanical switch. The exact same situation exists w/ me, the temp drops so fast you cant turn the switch off at any time after the 1st 10 degree drop because it continues to drop another 10 after that pump is turned back off.
 
We'll see what happens.


Naw the pump is electric, and there's no way in hell I'm changing that radiator

I know that Mike, electric pumps are easier to speed control than a pulley pump.... you need a DC controller to dial it in... think any new car gas pedal, think Tesla motor company.. they dont run WOT all the time...

Your good at building sh*t so figure out what you need and install one.

heres a few links to help you out

Electric Motor Speed Controls | eBay

The Davies Craig Range of EWP Electric Water Pumps From MAW Solutions Ltd

Dual Controller for EWPs

but WTF do I know I aint got no shade tree....
 
I know that Mike, electric pumps are easier to speed control than a pulley pump.... you need a DC controller to dial it in... think any new car gas pedal, think Tesla motor company.. they dont run WOT all the time...

Your good at building sh*t so figure out what you need and install one.

heres a few links to help you out

Electric Motor Speed Controls | eBay

The Davies Craig Range of EWP Electric Water Pumps From MAW Solutions Ltd

Dual Controller for EWPs

but WTF do I know I aint got no shade tree....

I appreciate that. To tell the truth, the thought of electrically restricting a Chinese Summit branded electric WP has never crossed my mind. Especially at this early stage. In actuality it may be less hard on the stupid thing to do that as opposed to turning it on and off using the Hysteresis settings on the WP control output.

This may come about as unnecessary anyway, but again, I'm early in the game, I guess it's easier to rant about it here, then read an owners manual.

I have a Vintage Air HVAC control panel that has 4 sliders:
1 for fan; 1 for mode;1 for cooling temp; and 1 for heat temp. I was assuming that when the fan control was off, so was the heat, but after looking at the panel, the heat slider (that I thought was slid all the way to the coldest position) was actually slightly off of it's stop. I haven't checked into the wiring diagram, so I don't know for sure yet, but one of the two switches is directly linked electrically to the heater control valve. I was discounting the temp control because it's not a "switch" but more of a rheostat, but who knows, maybe right off the stop, it's actually a switch as well. I'm thinking that little "tid bit" was/is probably responsible for keeping the heater control valve open, and that means a -10 bypass is just allowing water to run completely outside of the engine, and bypass the Tstat altogether.:stupid::stupid::stupid:
 
I think if it truly comes down to a situation where the cooling system is dramatically oversized for the engine, I'll try to turn the pump on and off w/ the ECU to regulate the flow of water like you F.I.L. did w/ a mechanical switch. The exact same situation exists w/ me, the temp drops so fast you cant turn the switch off at any time after the 1st 10 degree drop because it continues to drop another 10 after that pump is turned back off.

I appreciate that. To tell the truth, the thought of electrically restricting a Chinese Summit branded electric WP has never crossed my mind. Especially at this early stage. In actuality it may be less hard on the stupid thing to do that as opposed to turning it on and off using the Hysteresis settings on the WP control output.

This may come about as unnecessary anyway, but again, I'm early in the game, I guess it's easier to rant about it here, then read an owners manual.

I have a Vintage Air HVAC control panel that has 4 sliders:
1 for fan; 1 for mode;1 for cooling temp; and 1 for heat temp. I was assuming that when the fan control was off, so was the heat, but after looking at the panel, the heat slider (that I thought was slid all the way to the coldest position) was actually slightly off of it's stop. I haven't checked into the wiring diagram, so I don't know for sure yet, but one of the two switches is directly linked electrically to the heater control valve. I was discounting the temp control because it's not a "switch" but more of a rheostat, but who knows, maybe right off the stop, it's actually a switch as well. I'm thinking that little "tid bit" was/is probably responsible for keeping the heater control valve open, and that means a -10 bypass is just allowing water to run completely outside of the engine, and bypass the Tstat altogether.:stupid::stupid::stupid:


Something like this?

20150717_104838.jpg


Let me know if you want this thing. I'll send it to you and if you like it just send a replacement at your liesure (I understand that these guys can take a while to fulfill an order).

It's one of those things I picked up because the price was right even though I didn't need it at the time. This one is 55 amps. It doesn't operate like an on/off switch. It eliminates the spikes and ramps up slowly.

I'm sure you've heard of this outfit before. There's a couple others making similar products now too.
 
Starting out today I gotta say that again, I'm hesitant to post these pics, as they require that you be in my head a little to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
That aside, I'll post them with this introduction.

I ordered the Shelby tail light pkg from a Mustang Depot in Vegas. I had them measure the outside dimensions of the trim bezel so I could get a determination on the requisite size of the opening I needed to make in the tail panel. Those lights measure 5"h x 22.5 L". The license plate is actually 12" L x 6H. The entire back width (outside to outside) of the Monster is 65"

When you take the dimensions of the tails and license plate, and add those together, you get a total inside dimension of 57"

That leaves 7 additional inches to fill up between the surfaces.

The height of the tails are 5" and the license plate is 6". The distance between the trunk lip, at the top and the top of the bumper at the bottom of the rear fascia measured on the same sloping "angle" is about 9-3/4", which in my mind meant that there was 3-3/4' of excess between top and bottom.

The plan was to add some slop between the surfaces (1/2-3/4") around the perimeter as a safety buffer, then split the differences on the rest to get a gap for the insert that would become the backer surface for the tail lights, and the license plate to mount to.

I cut the hole in the rear fascia in the shape of a reallllly long, but very stubby "plus sign" 61" wide, and 7" high. Seemed more than generous to me at the time.

I made the backer out of a plate that was 7-1/2" high x 61" long, and built a perimeter fence that stood 4" off of the backer. This would become the recess-able insert that I could later trim to fit flush in the opening.

Got all that math? Does it seem like I've added enough extra "margin" around the surfaces?

All that junk changes when you tip it up on it's side so it'll fit through that hole.

6952B2D4-01BD-43CA-80DC-6D92DD49CBBB_zpssqmr1smx.jpg


I can hear it now......"Why that almost looks like a Chevrolet Bowtie emblem stretched across the rear of the car" :grumble:

To which I'd reply "Calm yourself,...it's a million miles from being done. The "insert" is just sitting in the opening."
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It still has to be leveled and squared, then the outline traced and the excess cut off that hangs off behind the slope.

Here's the kicker though: When it was built to fit through the hole, I really wasn't concerned about how tall the inside dimension ended up, as I thought I had more than enough slop to allow the 5" high tail light to fit in. All I was worried about was keeping the thing perfectly square and equidistant as it was welded.

I still have enough room, provided dude at place I bought the lights from was accurate in his measurements, but instead of having 1/2-3/4" above and below the lights, now I got something closer to 3/8" above and below the lights. I was just trying to get a jump on the wait involved to get those lights shipped from Nevada. Let me tell ya,..............I'll bet that I have to cut the entire thing down its length, and add an inch.

You'll know it if that's the case long before you'll ever read it here,.....You'll hear me first. I don't care where you live,......it'll be THAT loud.

As a side note, I did end up cutting away the driver side that I said nobody got to see that looked like I shot it w/ buck shot after trying to butt weld in another patch panel onto a previously worked panel.

It turned out better.

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As you can see, The swimming pool for air density that makes up the atmosphere in Alabama is wreaking havoc w/ the metal after just a few days on there bare,...I'm gonna have to get some kind of metal prep stuff to wash all of the oxidation off of everything and shoot a coat of some primer on it so I can at least breathe before it all rusts w/o as much as one smear of filler on it.
 

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Keep the progress pictures coming Mike. Can't wait to see how this all evolves.

I also eventually fell victim to bare metal in the summer. Made it all the way through winter and spring, but then had to sand the whole car down again and then spray it will a super light coat of etching primer.
 
Keep the progress pictures coming Mike. Can't wait to see how this all evolves.

I also eventually fell victim to bare metal in the summer. Made it all the way through winter and spring, but then had to sand the whole car down again and then spray it will a super light coat of etching primer.

I was gonna wait and just dump a boatload of stuff. Spent a few days last weekend doing nothing but welding the sheetmetal in the rear closed. Not that it was so much welding (which it was) but because it would warp like hell if I went too far too fast....I had to take forever to do it.

The Shelby tails came in late yesterday (they're so gonna work). The new gas tank came in late last week, and I modified it to allow for a tube type fuel sender, a -8 supply coming from the bottom side, and two -6's on top, one for the vent, and one for the return. I'll slosh some tank sealer directly around the weld areas so any pinholes will be sealed from potential leakage. I still gotta make the mount revision that'll let me relocate the pump to the front of the tank, and I'll probably just spray the whole thing w/ bedliner, and install it. Then I won't have to look at that pump, or that sump hanging so low and threatening to bottom out on the pavement somewhere.

If there's time this weekend to finish the rest of the rear facade, I think I have the stuff to do it. It'll be just like my sketch.

fairmontsketch_zps954ea3ba.jpg

(Kinda proud of myself that the car is matching a sketch drawn before it ever showed up in my driveway)
Once the pump is outta the way back there, it frees up the space under the bumper for that "mono-tailpipe housing" thingy in the pic. I want to build it to match the oil cooler underhang up front, kinda think it'll balance out the front. The way the tail lights are looking right now, there wont be a dividing partition between the lights, and the plate, but if it looks like ass when I get it all on there, I can add that to the facade. The spoiler is gonna be made out of .250 thick 3003 aluminum, and I have that too. The mount dilemma solution popped into my head last week, so I have that solved too.

I'll have all of this stuff photographed, so like I said........a boatload of stuff.

P.S. as for the surface rust: Diluted muriatic acid in a disposable spray bottle........you literally wipe the rust off w/ a rag, followed by a clean wet rag to nuetralize it. Blow it off, let it dry, a scotchbrite pad, and a rattlecan of dusted etching primer.

Fixt.
 
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@madmike1157 I love the muriatic acid idea! I'm going to try that one soon..

edit: I can add that if you have to remove rust that is heavier than surface rust on parts you can submerge in a bucket, there is a product called Evaporust that works astoundingly. Stuff comes out of it looking brand new! Comes in 1 gal jugs available at auto parts stores.
 
@madmike1157 I love the muriatic acid idea! I'm going to try that one soon..

edit: I can add that if you have to remove rust that is heavier than surface rust on parts you can submerge in a bucket, there is a product called Evaporust that works astoundingly. Stuff comes out of it looking brand new! Comes in 1 gal jugs available at auto parts stores.
Try doing the same thing w/ straight muriatic acid. 5 minutes to sandblast clean..

Evaporust works w/o all of the caustic fumes, just takes alot longer.
 
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I wondered if you had plans for another duck tail spoiler. I always really liked the one you put on the Mach Fox, but thought maybe you were going without on the Gila.
The one going on the monster is gonna be different than the last time. The last piece was molded into the sheetmetal, this one bolts on and will be held off by mounts.
 
Had to blow the dust off of this one.:no:

This update starts last Thursday.

Sometime in my past years I bit on something that cracked tooth 19. I had no idea at the time I cracked tooth 19, but given enough time, it managed to make itself obvious that there was something wrong. It took four dentists and 8 months before one of them, (dentist#3) actually found the crack and declared tooth 19 DOA. The prognosis determined that it be removed,.......surgically removed.

Last Thursday, dentist #4 did just that. Now I'm not a fan of the dentist, and when the words extraction come out of one of their mouths, the words sedation come back out of mine. I was anesthetized. Put to sleep.

When I woke up, There was a gaping hole back there where dead tooth 19 had once lived, and I was loopy. This brings me around to what all this has to do with working on the car. Being loopy, w/ a completely numb left side of my face was not conducive to working on it. It was hotter than hell, and I was tired, so I did the only thing that a person recovering from a tooth19-N-dectomy could do....
I got in my truck, and took my 75/25 welding gas bottle in for a recharge.

I drive real good when chemically "soothed" so as to cope w/ getting one of your molars cut out of your head.

On Friday I was much better.

Previously, I said that the old fuel tank setup was due for replacement. I had ordered a tube type fuel level sending unit rated at 70/10 ohms. Additionally, I got some steel weld fittings for the supply, vent, and return lines.

66C584BC-D89A-4829-9902-EB3DAB7853F7_zpsmoqhjsmy.jpg


The sending unit is 8" long, and the tank is about 9.5" deep. That meant I had to recess the thing so that it would be in the bottom of the tank. I welded the hole closed where the old sender used to be, and welded the fittings in the top, and bottom of the tank.
All of this welding brings about the issue of leaks. I can't say whether or not I have any,..I don't give the tank a chance to leak. I pour in some tank sealer, and tip the tank around until I'm sure that I have coated the weld areas so any potential pinholes will be sealed forever.
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You can just see the red goo when looking through the filler neck hole. That is the sending unit, and the tube on the bottom is running to the center of the tank, so fuel will be picked up from of the middle, as opposed to the side where the fitting is located. I don't know whether that will make a difference, but it made sense to me at the time.

After that, I relocated the fuel pump and filters to the front of the tank, as opposed to the rear where it was before.

E7F3F5BE-9359-4364-86D8-2C273CC4BE09_zps0005plmz.jpg


Then came Saturday. and Sunday.

Then the following Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and today.

Spent in hell. Trying to make the rear facade move from "unfinished", to "finished"

It's still not done.

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Despite my feeble attempt at making sure the welds were properly ground, and matched up so as to have a smooth body line, by the time filler started to get slathered on, high spots started rearing their head. All along the bulkhead weld seam, where you couldn't simply peck the high spot down. I had to grind the high spot, which in turn turned the surrounding sheet metal into toilet paper. You can see one of them poking his pimply ass through on the lower quarter, right below the previously hacked one, barely covered in filler.

I had no choice at this point, I had to keep at it. Everytime I'd butcher a high spot, a new one would show right back up. The real frustrating part of all of this is that it would get so close, and then there it would be,......Mr. Shiner, threatening to poke it's head back through if I made one more stoke w/ the samding block.

I gave up. I'm wrecked.

All of this "body work" done mostly by hand. Despite the fact that I went Saturday, and spent almost 200.00 on air tools from Harbor Freight, the fact that they were harbor Freight air tools make them pretty useless.

The Air file?.......It's an air hog, and requires so much CFM, it literally dies after one minute of use. Supposed to consume 6 CFM @ 90 PSI, My compressor didn't even turn back on before that flaming piece of crap would just stop.

Harbor freight sand paper? It garbage. The 36 grit stuff would tear in half sometimes immediately.

It wasn't all bad, The Jitterbug worked like it was supposed to, but again, the paper. This time the stuff didn't tear, it just didn't fit. Every piece had to have 1/4" cut off of it everytime. I don't know whether the sander was sized wrong, or the paper, but it was a pain in the ass just the same.

I bought a whole bunch of other "consumables" to finish my sanding/grinding/cutting. I expect they'll be stellar performers as well.

So, frustrated, covered in white dust as of this minute, covered in sweat, and smelling like 3 goats, I' manage to stop at this point.

But,....wait.....I wonder how hard it would be to scrape off the paint with a single edge razor blade?

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I tell ya, I'm like a dog. I get distracted in a heartbeat. I can say that scraping the paint off that quarter w/ a razorblade was the easiest thing I've done in the last 5 days though.

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Then,.....because I'm as tired as you are of looking at the same damn thing,.....I jerry rigged the tail light lenses in place.

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This is supposed to be the money shot. But as with everything I do in this build, there always seems to be a thunderstorm, raining on my parade.

The tail lights are wrong. The left one is 1/4" deeper than the right one. How in the hell this happened is beyond me, and short of completely cutting the rear panel off that the tail lights bolt to and redoing it, that is the only way to fix the discrepancy. I'm so pissed right now, you don't even know.

Yeah, the trunk is sealed shut in filler. I'll cut it back out when I get everything finished. Ironic actually, I was so worried about making sure that the trunk will completely blend into the rear facade, and now I have a wonky assed tail light instead.
 
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