Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.
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- Jul 7, 2005
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I see you removed fuel from the entire curve in boost.... in the datalog did it go rich and stay there?Ok,..so I did that...Now the VE map looks "unbalanced" I was basically in the same scenario that you used as an example. the areas that were tracking on the datalog were in the 100-109 area,....reading 9.7-10 AFR .
Then I do what you recommend divide 10 into 12 to get .833. Highlight a group of the affected cells,..hit the multiplier key, and enter .8333 as the multiplier. the numbers go down commensurately. When I watch the datalog,..the blue line/dot goes straight up in the VE table at the 2600 RPM mark and goes straight up into 100 kpa then moves up, and right into the 160 KPA range. where 7 p.s.i. is at.
It bothers me that there are larger numbers at lower kpa values. And what about the entire lower right hand corner of the table? will the engine ever see those numbers?
This table is after the mutilation
As you can see, where the old values used to rise into the 100,102,105,109 range,..there is an abrupt step down to leanie town....
Seems crazy to me.
What I'm getting at is if you had a rich dip in one area only remove fuel where it is needed.....
Next thing..... if you truly did need to remove that much fuel and it created the funky Ridge in fueling, why not smooth the deal out? Highlight the boxes from 130kpa down to 60kpa and use the vertical interpolation key.
Yes
Nope,..it hits 7 p.s.i goes big fat,..stays right there through 1st (then you see the 2nd gear dip) 2nd,..(3rd gear dip), and third until I lift, so I changed the entire top half of the VE table just so that the 3D map didn't look like the topography in Lord of the Rings.
Wow, you're at the point of turning tires? That's awesome! Now it's kinda like doing tequila shots. Drive, log, guestimate, tune, repeat.
I just found out my 15 yr old has a track meet in the B'ham Sunday. At 10 friggin AM. So I'll be up and driving Southeast at an unholy hour Sunday morning!!
I just found out my 15 yr old has a track meet in the B'ham Sunday. At 10 friggin AM. So I'll be up and driving Southeast at an unholy hour Sunday morning!!
You have an unequaled opportunity to see a nearly completed Monster. It's gonna be 70+ in Bham on Sunday,..It'll be second Monster test day ( If I can definitively get the ARF/VE table close enough to not create a second melt down thread in the same week).
You should come and see it.
Mike I smoothed it out for you sir....
Also to answer your question from the other day, the top left and bottom right sections of the tune are almost never used. you could even put in 00 in the boxes in these areas because that's how important they are.
Also to answer your question from the other day, the top left and bottom right sections of the tune are almost never used. you could even put in 00 in the boxes in these areas because that's how important they are.
- Jul 7, 2005
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The last line on the bottom right would be used for decel still, bc as soon as you lift off you will draw massive vacuum. Some put 0 in there as an alternative for over-run fuel cut, but be careful you might get a stumble/jerky when you reapply the throttle again.
- Jul 7, 2005
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Is this the msq for this log? This looks to be msq after you made changes, but looks that Steve already helped you.
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The bottom right would be very high rpm and kpa, if you are in this area regularly then your not driving right. I for one have never seen a log go into this area of my tune, transmissions will either shift themselves or you push the clutch in.
This is just my experience however, I suppose if one were building a high strung autocross car this could pose an issue. I usually give advice based on streetcar status.
- Jul 7, 2005
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- Jul 7, 2005
- 1,563
- 1,197
- 164
I see in your log that you almost never get above 160, so if you have a 160* thermostat in the car set the filter to 150*. I saw you are looking into the coolant issue as well.So what thermostat do you have in the car...160...180...192?
Also, when looking in Megalogviewer what is CLT showing your coolant temp to be? If the CLT is too low, then yes you could still be seeing WUE causing all kinds of havoc since WUE is an adder to the VE table value. Do you have the default labels at the bottom for your gauge cluster? Is WUE green?
Make sure to set your filter option to be 10 degrees below the thermostat rating, so you dont run into the issue you are having.
Just a thought
Yup, you guys have absolutely convinced me a solid H/C/I set up on the stock ECU is all I need. My wallet and wife say thanks!
Well,...I cannot use that camera in the car. The engine so overloads the mic that It is unwatchable. Besides,..all three times now, you have no sensation of speed other than the trees whizzing past, augmented by that god awful racket that the camera cannot deal with.
I actually put a piece of tape over the mic to mute out some of the noise, and it still sounds freakin terrible.
So then,..what did I learn...
I learned that my piece of sht Summit electric fuel pump has started making all kinds of noise. I'm thinkin it's dieing.
Piece of flaming sht.
This is the same pump Aeromotive sells as a model A750 for almost twice the price...367.00 vs the summit clone at 211.00.
Both are listed with the exact same specs,......where's the difference here?
Remember when I said that I went down stairs to check the running fuel pressure while the engine was off, and adjusted it down accordingly,...wondering on here how much of that fuel pressure the injectors ate up while the engine was running?
I said that I was gonna go down there, and check before the next test run.
Guess what I forgot to do?
The car was running perfectly on the first test pass. It ran all the way home,...(Just like a good little piggy does) I came in the house and looked at the first test pass datalog,..now the AFR, and duty cycles were more in line w/ the table,...(still about a half point off)
The vid was atrocious. I erased it.
The second test the car started and surged,.....I shut it off, went upstairs for something. came back down and restarted it. It cooled out a little and started running normal. I made the second test run w/ the camera mic now covered in a piece of scotch tape. That datalog still shows a very similar set of records...
I drive home. But now I'm hearing that fuel pump whining it's ass off. For a moment I thought maybe I was hearing the rear mounted cooling fans,..but nope,...the noise was still there after shutting them off. Sounds like it's burning up.
I get home (thankfully) and pull the car into the garage,..get out, and open the hood,.....Oh sht....the fuel pressure is like 36 p.s.i.
I forgot to reset it running.
The datalog is saying that I didn't go lean,..but it was still a half point higher under boost than the table was set to. So,..I'm gonna blame that fuel pressure faux pas on my stupidity. Hopefully,..the thing isn't hurt.
There may be something clogging the inlet filter, and that is what I'm gonna check next to see if that is the source of the pump noise,...otherwise,...looks like I'm placing another order w/ Amazon prime.
The car runs great otherwise,...It's not gonna set the world on fire at 7-8 p.s.i, but that's ok,...it's fast enough to be fun, it's conservative enough to be reliable,..and it's different enough to keep me happy.
For those of you that know what you're looking at:
I actually put a piece of tape over the mic to mute out some of the noise, and it still sounds freakin terrible.
So then,..what did I learn...
I learned that my piece of sht Summit electric fuel pump has started making all kinds of noise. I'm thinkin it's dieing.
Piece of flaming sht.
This is the same pump Aeromotive sells as a model A750 for almost twice the price...367.00 vs the summit clone at 211.00.
Both are listed with the exact same specs,......where's the difference here?
Remember when I said that I went down stairs to check the running fuel pressure while the engine was off, and adjusted it down accordingly,...wondering on here how much of that fuel pressure the injectors ate up while the engine was running?
I said that I was gonna go down there, and check before the next test run.
Guess what I forgot to do?
The car was running perfectly on the first test pass. It ran all the way home,...(Just like a good little piggy does) I came in the house and looked at the first test pass datalog,..now the AFR, and duty cycles were more in line w/ the table,...(still about a half point off)
The vid was atrocious. I erased it.
The second test the car started and surged,.....I shut it off, went upstairs for something. came back down and restarted it. It cooled out a little and started running normal. I made the second test run w/ the camera mic now covered in a piece of scotch tape. That datalog still shows a very similar set of records...
I drive home. But now I'm hearing that fuel pump whining it's ass off. For a moment I thought maybe I was hearing the rear mounted cooling fans,..but nope,...the noise was still there after shutting them off. Sounds like it's burning up.
I get home (thankfully) and pull the car into the garage,..get out, and open the hood,.....Oh sht....the fuel pressure is like 36 p.s.i.
I forgot to reset it running.
The datalog is saying that I didn't go lean,..but it was still a half point higher under boost than the table was set to. So,..I'm gonna blame that fuel pressure faux pas on my stupidity. Hopefully,..the thing isn't hurt.
There may be something clogging the inlet filter, and that is what I'm gonna check next to see if that is the source of the pump noise,...otherwise,...looks like I'm placing another order w/ Amazon prime.
The car runs great otherwise,...It's not gonna set the world on fire at 7-8 p.s.i, but that's ok,...it's fast enough to be fun, it's conservative enough to be reliable,..and it's different enough to keep me happy.
For those of you that know what you're looking at:
Sounds like maybe the Summit pump is the Chinee version of the Areomotive... Thought maybe you had caught on to that sort of thing by now. That whole saying, "you get what you pay for..." Plus, you ran it dry once before. Is it possible you are low on fuel about now, and the whine is just louder because the tank is empty?
I think they're the exact same....Remember I went through my "What's the difference between these pumps?" on an earlier thread when the Mallory that was there has those bad connections and the car arbitrarily died (My first "running out of gas" situation)
The Mallory, (Now branded as a MSD) the Summit, and the Aeromotive pump were all exactly the same. Specs were identical, only the price was different.
I'm not out of gas,...I put 16 gals in the car and have only driven these thre/four tests since then. All I know is that there are too many threads out there where guys claim that the damn fuel pump pump either doesn't, or quit working here, and all of those were from the regularly accepted brand names. (Although I think that I've seen Aeromotive mentioned in more than one instance)
I went down stairs and pulled the pre-filter,...it was full of junk. Whether or not that was enough to act as a restriction to cause the pump to go noisy I cant say, but I cleaned it and re-installed it. When I checked it, the pump sounded normal, but it was also cooler by then.
I did learn that all of those three pumps are submersible. I could cut my tank open, and put that btch inside,... If it's getting hot I know that the surrounding fuel would keep it cool, .but then I lose the ease of accessibility should it decide to go bad. I'm not liking that part of the deal.
I'll take it back out Tomorrow,....I'll dick with the stupid camera....there are a bunch of vids out there where guys that have the same camera have the same sound problem and have posted their solutions to the sound problem....
I think the Monster don't like getting his picture taken either.....
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