Progress Thread 2.3L - crank no start issue. Has spark, fuel, good compression.
- Thread starter joystang
- Start date
-
- Tags
- crank no start help no start
-
Sponsors (?)
/scam/waste of money
I think I first read about them in a J.C.Whitney cataloge, guy's would use them in old gas farm tractors that continuously foul spark plugs.
Showing my age? Yeah, so what?
Showing my age? Yeah, so what?
Ok so I ran through the crank no start checklist here are the results:
1. Not sure how to do since it's distributor-less
2. Sparks at plugs
3. Doesn't start with starting fluid/pump primes, inertia not tripped
4. Getting 25psi key on engine off post prime/no black smoke, getting wispy white/gray smoke (hard to tell) from the tailpipe
5. All injectors firing/TPS test good
6A. Can't set the idle screw until I can start the engine according to http://mustangspecialties.net/mustang-idle-set-up.html but I can't get the engine to start no matter where the throttle is held
6B. Haven't cracked the ecc open in about a month but the last time I did it looked fine
6C. Timing good as far as I can tell
6D. Firing order/spark wires correct
6E. Can't even get it to start cold
6F. Last compression test was good less than 6% difference, all cylinders around 140psi
No new codes
I will crack the ecc open tomorrow and inspect it again/post pics. I will try and get another compression test as well if I have the time. I'm truly stumped on why this thing doesn't want to start. Lol this car is officially the biggest pain in my @$$ I've ever had to deal with but I can't bring myself to give up on it. Only vehicle I haven't been able to bring back to life yet.
1. Not sure how to do since it's distributor-less
2. Sparks at plugs
3. Doesn't start with starting fluid/pump primes, inertia not tripped
4. Getting 25psi key on engine off post prime/no black smoke, getting wispy white/gray smoke (hard to tell) from the tailpipe
5. All injectors firing/TPS test good
6A. Can't set the idle screw until I can start the engine according to http://mustangspecialties.net/mustang-idle-set-up.html but I can't get the engine to start no matter where the throttle is held
6B. Haven't cracked the ecc open in about a month but the last time I did it looked fine
6C. Timing good as far as I can tell
6D. Firing order/spark wires correct
6E. Can't even get it to start cold
6F. Last compression test was good less than 6% difference, all cylinders around 140psi
No new codes
I will crack the ecc open tomorrow and inspect it again/post pics. I will try and get another compression test as well if I have the time. I'm truly stumped on why this thing doesn't want to start. Lol this car is officially the biggest pain in my @$$ I've ever had to deal with but I can't bring myself to give up on it. Only vehicle I haven't been able to bring back to life yet.
manicmechanic007
5 Year Member
manicmechanic007
5 Year Member
Well, if it has the big three it will fire
You should double check all of those including fuel quality
No new codes means what?
What codes are there after a clear and cranking
The 93 EDIS ones are smart enough to have PIDS
You check any of those?
1993 you need a NGS to test PIDS against reference data
Should not be too hard to figure out with the one I have
Find someone near you that has one or hit the dealer for diagnosis
You should double check all of those including fuel quality
No new codes means what?
What codes are there after a clear and cranking
The 93 EDIS ones are smart enough to have PIDS
You check any of those?
1993 you need a NGS to test PIDS against reference data
Should not be too hard to figure out with the one I have
Find someone near you that has one or hit the dealer for diagnosis
manicmechanic007
5 Year Member
They told us in screwell to love the Villager
That is why we got the NGS they said and that's when PIDS came around too IIRR
Yours is all digital with no adjustments
The crank trigger and tone ring is the right one?
No swaps? History of vehicle
That is why we got the NGS they said and that's when PIDS came around too IIRR
Yours is all digital with no adjustments
The crank trigger and tone ring is the right one?
No swaps? History of vehicle
I have checked those three repeatedly, replaced spark plugs, replaced the gas multiple times.
No new codes means it's the same codes I've been pulling and posting. It's OBD 1 not 2.
Please read previous posts, most of the information you're asking for has already been posted multiple times
No new codes means it's the same codes I've been pulling and posting. It's OBD 1 not 2.
Please read previous posts, most of the information you're asking for has already been posted multiple times
manicmechanic007
5 Year Member
Not going to re-read 10 pages of posts
Just trying to get you thinking.
OBD1 can output PIDS in 1993 -1995 vehicles (you have to have a Ford NGS)
Go ahead and take months and months to figure it out
First off page 1 first post of compression readings
Too high and you cranked the motor over too many cycles. Do it again is what I am saying
Double check it all
Just trying to get you thinking.
OBD1 can output PIDS in 1993 -1995 vehicles (you have to have a Ford NGS)
Go ahead and take months and months to figure it out
First off page 1 first post of compression readings
Too high and you cranked the motor over too many cycles. Do it again is what I am saying
Double check it all
manicmechanic007
5 Year Member
Do you have a Ford PCED?
Have you gone through the no start subroutines?
No and No right?
Restart your diagnosis using the PCED and the no start flowchart
Plugs all wet with fuel right now?
Can you start yourself on fire using the fuel?
Not a gas diesel mix right?
You said no fire on ether either?
Leads me back to compression and a valve hanging up and you got 80 lbs?
Have you gone through the no start subroutines?
No and No right?
Restart your diagnosis using the PCED and the no start flowchart
Plugs all wet with fuel right now?
Can you start yourself on fire using the fuel?
Not a gas diesel mix right?
You said no fire on ether either?
Leads me back to compression and a valve hanging up and you got 80 lbs?
Ok first, there likely is not a dealership that can diagnose and repair a obd1 car. I may be wrong but 
Second, while I'm not a mechanic, I do play one on occasion under that big tree out back
and I think an emissions issue will cause a no start condition, again I could be wrong.
I understand this will have a crank and or a cam trigger correct? Is it triggering at the correct time/spot? I know I had a hang of a time getting the timing belt on correctly on a 4cyl, several times after cranking the engine the timing was off, once I got the timing marks to correctly align repeatedly it started right up. Difference being my 4 banger was older carb'd style with a distributor.
But still Motorhead Rule #1 'if it has fuel, air and spark an explosion will happen.' The size (intensity) of the reaction (explosion) has numerous variables. A weak spark, timing off, air/fuel ratio all effect each other so I would take a day, then make sure the battery is up to the task, fuel is entering the combustion chamber and it's happening at or close to the right spot and you should at least get fire someplace.
In short go back over the basics like it's the first time.
Second, while I'm not a mechanic, I do play one on occasion under that big tree out back
and I think an emissions issue will cause a no start condition, again I could be wrong.I understand this will have a crank and or a cam trigger correct? Is it triggering at the correct time/spot? I know I had a hang of a time getting the timing belt on correctly on a 4cyl, several times after cranking the engine the timing was off, once I got the timing marks to correctly align repeatedly it started right up. Difference being my 4 banger was older carb'd style with a distributor.
But still Motorhead Rule #1 'if it has fuel, air and spark an explosion will happen.' The size (intensity) of the reaction (explosion) has numerous variables. A weak spark, timing off, air/fuel ratio all effect each other so I would take a day, then make sure the battery is up to the task, fuel is entering the combustion chamber and it's happening at or close to the right spot and you should at least get fire someplace.
In short go back over the basics like it's the first time.
I wouldn't think the emissions would keep it from starting. I know plenty of vehicles with no emissions that start and run fine. It just has a crank sensor no cam, it is firing, not sure how to tell if it's firing at the right time without getting it to run for at least a little. I'm 99% sure timing is spot on. I'm thinking it's gotta be a weak spark. Probably won't have time today but going to start with the ignition system when I have the time.
Make sure you have good grounds and add them if needed. what does the spark look like when you checked it?
I would ck the CKP sensor that sits on top of the "distributor" I believe the ecu gets it's signal from that sensor for injectors. If it's out of position, it'll fire fuel at the wrong time,maybe on the exhaust stroke instead of the intake,that would definitely give you a loud bang if the spark caught it just right and exploded through the exhaust valves. It was a common mistake if you were replacing that sensor,without the proper alignment tool,to have it out of position and cause no start. I know it's "distributor less" but it does have a mechanical shaft to the crank telling the CK position sensor when to fire injectors and spark...
Sorry Flyboy, some things came up and I was forced to put it on hold temporarily. Once I get the train back on the tracks I will post resultsAny update - just pent hours reading this, now I need an ending for this story.
Similar threads
