A Little OT Suprise

jikelly

Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Jul 9, 2003
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I found this article "Power company chief wants warming tax" http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7419711/ and have to say I was a little surprised. I had read some things that suggested a number of corporations were taking global warming under serious consideration, but this tax idea coming from one of the energy producers was not expected. I wonder if this will get anymore press and what Bush and his cronies will say. Probable it will just be blown off. I know that they don't want to do anything about reducing the release of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere.

Hey, no sweat off my back. I like it hot. If global warming accelerates as some predict I'll just have to drive a little further north to go skiing. Besides If the goverment did do somthing about greenhouse gas emissions it would probable be to try and get me to stop driving my old stang before they risked regulations or taxes that might effect the economy. :shrug:
 
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So, are they going to suggest a garden tax also? Trees also emit gasses that affect the ozone layer. Some trees even emit more than a gasoline engine does. My point is that there are just so many people the planet can support. We are slowly using up all the resources and sooner or later, there won't be anymore to use. Maybe Battlestar Gallactica wasn't a far fetched show?
 
What about a cow tax? Recent Gov't studies show that cattle are the biggest producers of methane gas in the U.S.! :rolleyes:
Bad enough dem cows are a fartin', but our tax $$$ paid for some twit to go out and measure how much they was a fartin'! :doh:

Personally, it's my belief that the U.S. Congress is the biggest producer of greenhouse gases, if we eliminate Congress the warming trend will reverse itself!:nice:
 
It's my belief that we know so little about the enviroment and that history shows that every time we try to meddle with fixing thing int he enviroment that we "messed up" we usually end up making things worse or just transferring the problem.
 
I wonder if I could get a grant to study the effects of chicken farts on the ozone? Of course, I wouldn't do the actual monitoring: I would have an assistant take the readings and I would just write them down for a couple of million dollars.
 
skywalker said:
It's my belief that we know so little about the enviroment and that history shows that every time we try to meddle with fixing thing int he enviroment that we "messed up" we usually end up making things worse or just transferring the problem.

I know you don't seriously believe that our activities have no effect on our environment. Okay, try going in your bathroom and light up a cigarette and tell me if there is any difference in air quality before and afterwards. There are some things we could do differently to at least lesson the impact we have on our planet's environment and the species that are here with us.

If a corporation is willing to do something that might negatively impact their bottom line maybe there is a reason.
 
We all know that the enviroment is being harmed everyday, BUT, are you willing to change your life style to help reduce pollution, such as not using your air conditioning during 100+ degree weather? Will you order a new car without A.C. to help get better mileage? How about settling for mail and package delivery using horses that will take weeks if not months to deliver. Yes, it is easy to say that we should do this and that, but are you really ready to sacrifice convenience and comfort to meet a goal? Duke Energy may speak it, but are they willing to lead it? I doubt if their top leaders would turn off all the comforts in their glass towers.
 
Oh, Give Me An EFFFFING Break!

[rant mode=ON]
Oh, Lord; I just love listening to "the experts" expound to we unwashed masses regarding this subject. I will immodestly say that nobody on this Forum is more effected by "warming" than me! jst6 and our Mods come close, but I'd bet that my job puts me outside in the Sonoran July weather more often and for longer periods than their jobs do for them. And along with being a Ham Radio geek, I'm also a volunteer weather watcher for the NWS - and there are some interesting classes to take as part of the Skywarn duty. So now you'll get my hot air on the subject.

First of all; go do a few Google searches on the subject. For every "study" on how global warming is a new phenomenon; you can find a historical data study that shows the warming/cooling trends occur in a 100-150-year cycle. There are also archaeological studies that indicate a 400-year cycle comes into play as well. So, yeah, I guess it's a "new trend" to us - since nobody around here (all cracks at chepsk8 aside) saw the last warming trend.

Trees and cow farts do indeed produce a lot more CO2 and methane than our cars. Also, (2bav8 and Oboe) do you know that a Phoenix "strong" summer thunderstorm produces almost as much ozone as 3 days' worth of Phoenix rush-hour traffic? Maybe we Arizonans should enact a Monsoon tax??? Bythe way, ozone is good in the upper atmosphere for deflecting much of the sun's UV radiation; but many "studies" suggest that it's bad for the environment here closer to the ground. So is it good or bad for us? :shrug: I love it when "the experts" point to test data (measured on various Space Shuttle missions) on "the depletion of the ozone layer" caused by CFC's being released to the atmosphere. Back to statistics: If the A/C unit in every car, truck, bus, house and grocery store in Arizona were to pop a Freon line at the same time; the CFC's released would almost equal that released by a complete burn of the Shuttle's Solid Rocket Boosters. Oh, and the last minute or so of the SRB burns spew out those CFC's a lot closer (less chance of degradation of the CFC molecules) to the Ozone layer than we are.

"Global warming" has come up a lot in my neck-of-the-woods recently; as a proposal to build (39 miles from where I'm sitting right now) the first new U.S. oil refinery in the last 30 years. Environmentalists descend upon us (usually in large groups driving Excursions and Suburbans) to warn we backwards folk about the dangers; trotting out factoids and the dangers of particualte emissions and wastewater pond contamination ruining our agricultural society. Left out is the part about their "facts" describing a specific 50-year-old refinery operating under 50-year-old (nearly non-existant) Environmental Quality Regulations. Exhaust scrubbers that were unheard of in the 50's and a treatment system that precludes wastewater ponds are included in the design - they have to be, or the permit won't be let and the refinery won't exist. But still, the Environmentalists come from out of town; bringing "relevant data" to scare the local citizenry into stopping this refinery from being built. Reminds me of the time (two years ago) when one of my well-meaning-but-grossly-uninformed Scout mothers came blazing into our Parents' Meeting demanding that all of the parents must sign this petition blocking the build of a second cardboard packaging plant here in our county. She knew what it was like living four miles from an old plant back home in Pennsylvania... the smell was apparently horrible and made people sick; and that wasn't gonna happen in Yuma if she had anything to say about it!
Go back a couple of sentences, to where I said "....the second cardboard packaging plant...". Politely as I could muster; I told her I would sign her petition only after she drove 0.9 mile East of her subdivision, to the industrial property with the "Weyerhauser" sign out front. After she discovered and reported back her findings on what exactly Weyerhauser was doing not one mile from her house; I'd consider whether or not I should sign the petition. Never heard about her petition again? :shrug:

Why on earth do we as a people allow ourselves to run willy-nilly screaming in fear every time somebody comes up with a reason for us to be scared? :bang:
I'm as Enivironmentally aware as many people; more aware than most. But I think "being aware" means researching facts and being aware of all aspects of the issue.

[/rant mode]
 
StangDreamin' said:
[rant mode=ON]................[/rant mode]
Damn........talk about a lot of hot air!;):D
StangDreamin' said:
Why on earth do we as a people allow ourselves to run willy-nilly screaming in fear every time somebody comes up with a reason for us to be scared? :bang:
THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!!! :D
 
So it is better to do nothing, or make no attempt to change? I'm glad that some people are at least talking seriously about the possible impact of global warming and considering what we can do about it.

People on all sides of the global warming issue feel pretty passionately about it. I was pissed that people were just writing it off as stupid and impossible. Now I just hope things will be okay in the long run and that all the "experts" who have written the alarming reports on the subject got the math wrong.

Seriously, I don't expect anyone to do anything constructive about this issue until there is undeniable proof that we are adversely affecting the planetary environment. I'm sure I'll be long dead before we humans really understand how our activities affect the climate.

What needs to happen is reduced energy consumption and increased efficacy in energy use across the board. As energy cost increase, economic conditions will probable force us to move to new more efficient systems. What I desire is the move to renewable/clean energy, but research in that area is expensive, and it is not yet a priority for our leaders.

Of course I have to consider that while I might listen to Chicken Little when he runs around and screams about the sky falling most smart people will ignore him. Let's just hope they are right and global warming is poppycock.
 
jikelly said:
So it is better to do nothing, or make no attempt to change?

Absolutely not! I just have serious issues with those who insist on "going off half-cocked". Working on partial information can and often does lead to serious trouble -not always related to the original issue- later on down the road. One of the unofficail slogans of the originators of DARPAnet (the real progenitor of the Internet - Al Gore notwithstanding :rolleyes: ) is "Knowledge is Power". Those who don't utilize all the knowledge (power) available; due to panic, laziness or (most heinous) political motivations; are a much greater part of the problem than a part of the solution.
 
If any of you guys like to read I suggest picking up the new Michael Crichton book "State of Fear". It is a fictional story based around facts just like all his books. The topic this time around is global warming. He cites some pretty interesting sources.

StangDreamin I couldn't put it any better than you have already. By the way you sound just like one of the main characters in the book :)
 
68rustang said:
If any of you guys like to read I suggest picking up the new Michael Crichton book "State of Fear". It is a fictional story based around facts just like all his books. The topic this time around is global warming. He cites some pretty interesting sources.
I never really dug deeply into Crichton's stuff; but I enjoyed those of his books that I've read. From what I've heard, this book covers global warming as a theme; but he puts forth some pretty good commentary on "establishment" fear-mongering regardless of the subject matter. I think I need to read this one.

StangDreamin....... By the way you sound just like one of the main characters in the book :)

Yep, I've definitely got to read this book!