Business must not be too bad for dealers....

allcarfan

The Answer Man
Founding Member
Apr 8, 2001
2,458
1
56
North Atlanta
I thought dealers were hurting for Business.

The handling package, I found for $400 cheaper than the dealer wanted to sell it to me for. I also called around and the labor charges for the installs were $200 cheaper.

The dealer also wanted $1100 for a magnaflow catback (including installation).

I called my dealer and explained to them the price of the handling package from other Ford Dealerships and what they wanted to charge for installation. I also explained that the Magnaflow catback can be purchased for $517 which would mean they wanted to charge me $600 for a catback install. I asked if they could come down in price on the Handling kit and still charge me the same for install ($625) and if they would match the price on the maggy pieces and install them for a tad cheaper.

They responded with....those are our prices. We cant do any better.

The dealer wants to make a killing on this stuff. Now, instead of them making an extra $1200+ on labor and parts (what I offered), they are going to miss out on all of it and I will order and do it myself. This is the same dealer that wanted $5000 for a dealer installed "track pack" with my auto.

I guess they are not hurting to badly....although, they have a few saleens STILL on the lot, and plenty of 2009 mustangs.....GTCS's for $40k I might add
 
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Having worked at dealerships in the past, one of the reasons that many cost more is because of the Unions that have gotten into the ranks of mechanics in the parts and service departments and jack the costs up. The union protested in front of a dealer I worked with for months because they did not have "union" mechanics, the only differance was that the mechanics would make a few more bucks, but it would all be absorbed by the union dues, and the dealership would have to pay for some union certification (AKA bribe)
 
Having worked at dealerships in the past, one of the reasons that many cost more is because of the Unions that have gotten into the ranks of mechanics in the parts and service departments and jack the costs up. The union protested in front of a dealer I worked with for months because they did not have "union" mechanics, the only differance was that the mechanics would make a few more bucks, but it would all be absorbed by the union dues, and the dealership would have to pay for some union certification (AKA bribe)


Ahh unions, the biggest culprits of bringing down the auto industry. When I was in college years ago I delivered drywall and supplies to a house being built. The owner of the house was furious because one of the companies doing the housework was furious that "union labor" had not been used to install the windows. They (the union workers)removed the windows (that had already been installed) and re-installed them and charged the owner for the reinstallation. I don't think I had seen someone so livid and upset at that point in my life yet.
 
Ahh unions, the biggest culprits of bringing down the auto industry. When I was in college years ago I delivered drywall and supplies to a house being built. The owner of the house was furious because one of the companies doing the housework was furious that "union labor" had not been used to install the windows. They (the union workers)removed the windows (that had already been installed) and re-installed them and charged the owner for the reinstallation. I don't think I had seen someone so livid and upset at that point in my life yet.


most dealers are non union but skilled labor is still expensive...

I dont blame that guy for being pissed.. I would sue them if possible.

Having worked at dealerships in the past, one of the reasons that many cost more is because of the Unions that have gotten into the ranks of mechanics in the parts and service departments and jack the costs up. The union protested in front of a dealer I worked with for months because they did not have "union" mechanics, the only differance was that the mechanics would make a few more bucks, but it would all be absorbed by the union dues, and the dealership would have to pay for some union certification (AKA bribe)



not many dealers are union.. BUT dealers have insanely high overhead that needs to be paid for.. special tools alone would bankrupt 99 percent of independents.

Plus skilled labor is not cheap good techs wont open a toolbox up here for less than 25 or so a flat rate hour
 
Plus skilled labor is not cheap good techs wont open a toolbox up here for less than 25 or so a flat rate hour

So what's $25 per hour times zero jobs? Come by my local dealerships service shop and they will tell you. They don't get to avoid the law of supply and demand either.

The problem is they want to charge you $110 per hours worth of labor. OK, so that's fine... But then they want to charge you "book time" which is longer than what it takes them. For example my dealership wanted 10 hours worth of time that all the tech say they can do in 3 hours all day long. That SHOULD be illegal and considered stealing if you ask me.

You want to charge for a job, that's fine but I'll be d*&^ if you're going to charge me by the hour and pad the clock :mad: Dealerships stop doing this and I would be willing to bet that people would start using them more and they would make more money in the long run.
 
So what's $25 per hour times zero jobs? Come by my local dealerships service shop and they will tell you. They don't get to avoid the law of supply and demand either.

The problem is they want to charge you $110 per hours worth of labor. OK, so that's fine... But then they want to charge you "book time" which is longer than what it takes them. For example my dealership wanted 10 hours worth of time that all the tech say they can do in 3 hours all day long. That SHOULD be illegal and considered stealing if you ask me.

You want to charge for a job, that's fine but I'll be d*&^ if you're going to charge me by the hour and pad the clock :mad: Dealerships stop doing this and I would be willing to bet that people would start using them more and they would make more money in the long run.

Somehow customers don't complain when a hard electrical problem takes 10 hours to fix and we charged 5

The book time is figured on warranty time plus 30 percent.. ford figured it's it's warranty time on how long it should take a tech to do the job after several attempts.

It takes a a lot of SKILL to beat the book time.. unlike most jobs working as a flat rate tech means you go over the book time your on your own no extra pay.. since I DOUBT the customer is going to volunteer to pay when something goes wrong why the hell should I give my money back when I beat the time.

Hoe many times have you worked a days work for no pay? I have done it.. I even had a week I worked 6 days and flagged 8 hours because of a **** up in the service manual for the 2006 explorer I was working on.. I got sent on a wild goose chase and ford told us to go **** ourselfs when we wanted to get paid for the time we wasted.

How would you react to that if your boss would not pay you and you did everything by the book?

I do a lot of drive ability and transmission work, guess how much I get paid for the sometimes hour long road tests I have to go on to find that intermittent shudder?

0



We already get boned by the manufacturer, we have to buy thousands of dollars worth of tools, ( I could buy a GT500 and mod it with what I have spent on tools) and on top of that it take YEARS to get good at the job..


I will give up my extra time when I beat the book when I start getting paid for all the time on roadtests, all the time I spend on the phone with a hotline engineer.. all the time I spend helping other techs. Ohh I did not even get into how you can loose hours due to back flagging if you have a comeback and somebody else has to fix it.


I would LOVE it if I could get paid 35 a hour hourly and not have to do this stupid flat rate crap at all..


BTW

We charge 99 a hour and we have many carry overs a day.. I have a backlog of work now so neither me or the dealer I am working for is hurting for work.
 
SVTTECH,

I see where you are coming from.

But, how would you explain a charge of $500 for a catback install? That would equate to 5 hours of work. I can do it in an hour with no specialty tools and no lift.

Or a markup of $400 (40%) on my suspension parts?

Or the $200 markup (40%) on magnaflow pieces?

These markups are from advertised prices....not wholesale. When I see that, I steer clear.

It sounds like the dealers get screwed by circumstances beyond their control and they pass it on to other customers.

I think the bottom line here is....the dealerships are not evil, they are there to make money. However, some.....want to attempt to make more money than others. Some prey on the ignorant car owner.
 
SVTTECH,

I see where you are coming from.

But, how would you explain a charge of $500 for a catback install? That would equate to 5 hours of work. I can do it in an hour with no specialty tools and no lift.

Or a markup of $400 (40%) on my suspension parts?

Or the $200 markup (40%) on magnaflow pieces?

These markups are from advertised prices....not wholesale. When I see that, I steer clear.

It sounds like the dealers get screwed by circumstances beyond their control and they pass it on to other customers.

I think the bottom line here is....the dealerships are not evil, they are there to make money. However, some.....want to attempt to make more money than others. Some prey on the ignorant car owner.

I agree that is WAY WAY too much for a cat back install.. Dealers are a poor choice for aftermarket installs.. they simply dont have the experience to know how to quote mods properly.. oir they try to make a killing on it.
 
Hoe many times have you worked a days work for no pay? I have done it.. I even had a week I worked 6 days and flagged 8 hours because of a **** up in the service manual for the 2006 explorer I was working on.. I got sent on a wild goose chase and ford told us to go **** ourselfs when we wanted to get paid for the time we wasted.

That's no different than "SALARY" and is exactally what happens to us too. We get paid for 40 hours and often times have to work 50-60 hours a week. That 10-20 hours extra is at no pay.

You are very lucky to work at your specific dealership as the ones around here have crickets in the service bays unless it's warantee work.

Most recent example of this inflation I speak of. Guy at the counter says, "I can get those FRPP cams at cost for you if you let us install them." I say, "Great! How much for the cams and labor?" He says, "Cams are "$800 plus taxes and labor will be $1100."

I ask this... How is cost for the hot rod cams $800 when I can drive down the street and pay $750 (reg price) at Late Model Restoration?

Edit - First write up came across as being an A$$ and that is not what I'm trying to intend. This is just a topic I'm pretty passionate about as I feel as though the ignorant are being taken advantage of. For example. A friend of mines girlfriend went to a shop and they charged her $400 to change a stuck thermostat. This car's thermostat's is easier than a carbed chevy 350... They then quoted her $800 to change the O2 sensor. She almost paid that before she called her BF :-(
 
That's no different than "SALARY" and is exactally what happens to us too. We get paid for 40 hours and often times have to work 50-60 hours a week. That 10-20 hours extra is at no pay.

You are very lucky to work at your specific dealership as the ones around here have crickets in the service bays unless it's warantee work.

Most recent example of this inflation I speak of. Guy at the counter says, "I can get those FRPP cams at cost for you if you let us install them." I say, "Great! How much for the cams and labor?" He says, "Cams are "$800 plus taxes and labor will be $1100."

I ask this... How is cost for the hot rod cams $800 when I can drive down the street and pay $750 (reg price) at Late Model Restoration?

Edit - First write up came across as being an A$$ and that is not what I'm trying to intend. This is just a topic I'm pretty passionate about as I feel as though the ignorant are being taken advantage of. For example. A friend of mines girlfriend went to a shop and they charged her $400 to change a stuck thermostat. This car's thermostat's is easier than a carbed chevy 350... They then quoted her $800 to change the O2 sensor. She almost paid that before she called her BF :-(

yeah salary can suck too.. I know plenty of people that get screwed on it. One benefit of flat rate is you can make more than a typical paycheck but you can also get really badly burned. On salary at least you know you will get paid something.

it just sucks when you have a week where you work 50+ hours and get paid for 8


I will agree with you that the service business is shady all around.. it's really a horrible business and you are right people do get ripped off..

I could tell you some stories about some of the stuff I have seen go on that is downright criminal.. Like upselling flushes and not doing them, upselling brakes on cars that have 8 mm of pad left.. I once was given job that one of the hacks at my work diaged, he was out sick after he ordered a 3500 dollar rear differential (2800 for the part, 7 hours to install) to put in a explorer.. it did not need the diff I rediaged it on the way into my stall as a rear wheel bearing and the shop told me to put it in anyways and they will pay me extra to put the wheel bearing in and not tell the customer..


So this poor guy paid 3500 bucks for something he did not need :nonono:

There is NO point in trying to do good work anymore, nobody cares... The dealer don't care all they care about is how many hours a week you steal or produce ( i dont really think they care as long as the customers credit card clears) and how little you make a hour.


Those of us that try to be fair and do good work get boned HARD... we don't get raises because we don't steal enough.. All the good work goes to the thieves so they can steal more..

Then to top it off we get screwed by the manufacturer..

For example.. the crossmember bolts on the 2002+ explorers break off. All we ask for to fix the car properly is 1 extra hour to drill out the hole and tap it.

Ford says NO they don't give a **** and want us to do it for free. :nonono::mad: WTF why should I spend a few hours of my time to fix the cheap hardware they used when they did not figure that into the warranty time..

SO now I see many of these trucks with missing crossmember bolts or huge holes cut into the side of the frame to nut and bolt it.. This is not a proper repair!

If ford would just be fair and pay us we would fix it the right way instead of destroying the customers frame or leaving bolts out of the crossmember.


I know this is long winded but my point is the customer is getting screwed in many ways, not just in labor charges, they are also getting screwed under warranty with subpar work and subpar diag


Just like anything else you get what you pay for.. Ford and the dealers don;t want to pay so they are getting what they pay for.