Paint and Body Fox Body Painting 101

[Davedacarpainter]

@madmike1157
If I understand you correctly, you have a spray gun with air coupler mounted directly on the gun. Then you have the coupler on the air hose that is attached to threaded adapter on the air hose. You end up with 6" of metal that doesn't bend, and gets in the way in tight quarters. If that describes what you have, then I have a simple answer. If not then keep on looking.

Every air tool needs a short whip hose (18'-30" long) with the air coupler on the end of the hose. That way you only have about 2" of unbending metal on the air tool instead of 6". Your friendly Harbor Freight Tools has 5 foot whip hoses in 1/4" and 3/8" sizes for $5 - $7 each. See http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/air-tool-accessories.html?p=2 . I usually cut the non swivel 5 foot whip hose in half so I get 2 hoses for the price of one.

The only caution is to put something soft to slide over the couplers so that they don't scratch up the finish. A piece of hose large enough to slide over the couplers would do the job...

If it matters, I like (how do I put this without it becoming a new ct) the extra 6" of metal from the gun.

It helps me to keep the hose away from the panel and it's not so much weight as to be cumbersome.

Plus, when I'm spraying across a hood or roof, I will run the air hose over my shoulder to help prevent any contact with the surface I'm painting. The extra weight on the inlet of the gun also helps with balancing the gun in my hand leading to slightly less hand fatigue during a larger paint job.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

@madmike1157 this is the PPS system I was talking about.

I have no idea of the cost on an individual basis, but if it's cheap enough, it really helps painting, even upside. This is the medium size, the cup holds 24 oz. There is a large size as well that will hold 30 oz.

You will need an adapter for your gun as well

Again, I'm not sure if the pricing. It really helps when you're shooting rocker panels.

 

[bird_dog0347]

@madmike1157 this is the PPS system I was talking about.

I have no idea of the cost on an individual basis, but if it's cheap enough, it really helps painting, even upside. This is the medium size, the cup holds 24 oz. There is a large size as well that will hold 30 oz.
You will need an adapter for your gun as well
Again, I'm not sure if the pricing. It really helps when you're shooting rocker panels.

I was going to suggest a 90 degree elbow for the air inlet on the bottom of the gun... might be cheaper and would then make the filter/hose parallel to the ground.

 

[Black1987]

@Davedacarpainter

For a car that has the a good factory base coat under sealer (original paint clear coat was sanded down to 180 220 320 then sealed)

Is primer necessary or can the sealer be re-sanded sealed then sprayed with acrylic singe stage if the body is straight (cheap paint job for 10 ft away to get by).

Also primer surfacer, do you use this or a high build primer then block or one in the same?

You mentioned etch primer earlier, but would use this over pre-existing paint?

 

[Davedacarpainter]

@Davedacarpainter

For a car that has the a good factory base coat under sealer (original paint clear coat was sanded down to 180 220 320 then sealed)

Is primer necessary or can the sealer be re-sanded sealed then sprayed with acrylic singe stage if the body is straight (cheap paint job for 10 ft away to get by).

Also primer surfacer, do you use this or a high build primer then block or one in the same?

You mentioned etch primer earlier, but would use this over pre-existing paint?

Just sand the sealer down, reaseal it if you use a heavier grit (320, 400). Sand it with 600 or finer and you can shoot the single stage right over it.

If you don't need to reseal, you'll get a smoother paint job. That's one of the reasons my car layed out so nice.

There are high build primers out there to use that come in handy when repairing hail damage. We use primarily the surfacer though over bodywork. If you aren't covering any bare bondo, you don't necessarily need any primer.

Etch primer is for bare metal. You only need it to provide the bond to bare metal. Otherwise a rattle can of etch primer comes in handy for small spots of bare metal. It won't harm the paint generally if you shoot some on it. If you have an older laquer paint job, it could be a problem and might cause the paint to lift.

 

[Black1987]

@Davedacarpainter good to hear. I'm hopeful it will look as good as the last backyard spray job

 

[Davedacarpainter]

For those getting ready to paint their cars with the panels on, here's a small tip on masking between the fender and door.

I mask the entire edge of the front of the door this way to keep out overspray in the hinge pillar area.

It's fairly simple, just let the tape overlap the door by about 1/4". When you close the door, check the tape and push it gently back in the jamb with a thin tool if it has overlap too far toward the outside surface.

Makes your pretty jambs stay pretty.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Here's what it looks like with the door closed and that little tool is what I use to adjust the tape after the door is closed.

 

[jrichker]

Due to the fact that I am too lazy and too busy to read this whole thread, what is the repair technique for cars that the clear coat is peeling off?

I had a guy buff and wax my Mustang and he buffed right through the clear coat that was on the front fenders of the car. Now I have patches of the oxidized paint showing through here and there and the peeling clear coat is oblivious. The back half of the car does not have clear coat from what I can tell. The front fenders got painted when the PO put a Cervini's fiberglass hood on the car.

The hood has some chips where the paint is gone and the gray primer is showing. It also has a spider web crack in it about 6" in diameter. Is this likely just a problem with the gel coat top layer or does it go deeper than that?

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Due to the fact that I am too lazy and too busy to read this whole thread, what is the repair technique for cars that the clear coat is peeling off?

I had a guy buff and wax my Mustang and he buffed right through the clear coat that was on the front fenders of the car. Now I have patches of the oxidized paint showing through here and there and the peeling clear coat is oblivious. The back half of the car does not have clear coat from what I can tell. The front fenders got painted when the PO put a Cervini's fiberglass hood on the car.

The hood has some chips where the paint is gone and the gray primer is showing. It also has a spider web crack in it about 6" in diameter. Is this likely just a problem with the gel coat top layer or does it go deeper than that?

Would you post a picture for me please of both issues?

I can expand a little now, I had to run to my grandson's baseball game earlier.

It really depends on how bad the clear coat is delaminating to tell you your options. If it is recently delaminating, then it is possible to sand and primer the area, if it has been some time, you're more or less screwed. The base coat left exposed will deteriorate rapidly.

It will need to be stripped off.

The cracking in the hood, how did it happen? Was it damaged by being struck with something? Or maybe just the flex of the hood? Really need pictures of this to say.

 

[jrichker]

Would you post a picture for me please of both issues?

I can expand a little now, I had to run to my grandson's baseball game earlier.

It really depends on how bad the clear coat is delaminating to tell you your options. If it is recently delaminating, then it is possible to sand and primer the area, if it has been some time, you're more or less screwed. The base coat left exposed will deteriorate rapidly.

It will need to be stripped off.

The cracking in the hood, how did it happen? Was it damaged by being struck with something? Or maybe just the flex of the hood? Really need pictures of this to say.

As requested, pictures...

Buffed through the clearcoat passenger side

Note the spider crack in the top coat

Buffed through the clearcoat driver side

Sorry it is a little faded, but you can see the effect of the chips

 

[Davedacarpainter]

As requested, pictures...

Buffed through the clearcoat passenger side

Note the spider crack in the top coat

Buffed through the clearcoat driver side

Sorry it is a little faded, but you can see the effect of the chips

Oooohhhhhh! Clear coat needs to go, sorry. The clear coat is delaminating (it is no longer adhering to the base coat) btw.

Since your hood is glass, and stripping it would be more than a little problematic, I would suggest feathering the clear coat back with nothing real heavy (at the most 220 DA). Feather it a couple inches beyond where it is delaminating from the base coat. Then you will want to primer the area. Let the primer cure for a good amount of time (like a week or more if you can). Then block it flat and prep like normal for paint.

I wouldn't strip more than the top of the fenders if I were you. There's a spot on the right fender close to the top of it, is that pealing there? Hard to tell from the photo. You'll want to primer the top of the fenders, so you might as well take that little goober out while you're there. Same thing with the primer and time frame. Be sure to use an etch primer on the tops of the fenders prior to spraying the primer, that is if you strip them to metal, which I recommend.

The crack in the hood doesn't look too terrible, but it is FG, so you'll want to take the paint off to verify that it hasn't originated in the glass hood itself. Once you sand the paint away, it will be hard to tell if the glass is cracked. Use some wax and grease remover, wipe the bare glass with it and let it dry, watch it as it dries, if it is in the glass, you'll see the cracks better as the still wet wax and grease remover will stay there long enough to identify the cracks.

So, if it is in the glass, what then? You'll need a resin based filler if it's shallow, if it's deeper, you might need fiberglass strands mixed with resin, real deep, then you'll want some FG matte to use to fix it. Let me know once you have the paint stripped on what you find, I can help you through the repair process.

Might as well fix the clear on your bumper as well while you're there, and strip the paint off the front of the hood to get rid of those chips too.

 

[jrichker]

Oooohhhhhh! Clear coat needs to go, sorry. The clear coat is delaminating (it is no longer adhering to the base coat) btw.

Since your hood is glass, and stripping it would be more than a little problematic, I would suggest feathering the clear coat back with nothing real heavy (at the most 220 DA). Feather it a couple inches beyond where it is delaminating from the base coat. Then you will want to primer the area. Let the primer cure for a good amount of time (like a week or more if you can). Then block it flat and prep like normal for paint.

I wouldn't strip more than the top of the fenders if I were you. There's a spot on the right fender close to the top of it, is that pealing there? Hard to tell from the photo. You'll want to primer the top of the fenders, so you might as well take that little goober out while you're there. Same thing with the primer and time frame. Be sure to use an etch primer on the tops of the fenders prior to spraying the primer, that is if you strip them to metal, which I recommend.

The crack in the hood doesn't look too terrible, but it is FG, so you'll want to take the paint off to verify that it hasn't originated in the glass hood itself. Once you sand the paint away, it will be hard to tell if the glass is cracked. Use some wax and grease remover, wipe the bare glass with it and let it dry, watch it as it dries, if it is in the glass, you'll see the cracks better as the still wet wax and grease remover will stay there long enough to identify the cracks.

So, if it is in the glass, what then? You'll need a resin based filler if it's shallow, if it's deeper, you might need fiberglass strands mixed with resin, real deep, then you'll want some FG matte to use to fix it. Let me know once you have the paint stripped on what you find, I can help you through the repair process.

Might as well fix the clear on your bumper as well while you're there, and strip the paint off the front of the hood to get rid of those chips too.

Thanks for the input; it sounds like something that I don't have the skills, time or the tools to do. I have half a 2 car garage, and my half is also the place where the carpenter work gets done. There is sawdust everywhere from the woodworking projects my wife cooks up for me.

The car is also a daily driver so it doesn't have the luxury of sitting around while I do a bit here and a piece there. It looks like it is time to start saving some money for some professional paint and body work.

 

[dr hook]

First off... thanks for taking the time to do this thread. Its very informative.

I'm no professional, but back before my kiddos came along I used to do custom paint as a "side gig". Did lots of motorcycles, etc. I was wondering if you had any advice as to replacing a quarter panel? My recently acquired 93GT has sideswiped something before I got it. Apparently, Helen Keller taught Stevie Wonder how to do bodywork on my car . Im trying to decide whether to strip and rework the quarter, or replace it. I've done smaller repairs, such as rocker panels, cab corners, etc... but never a quarter panel. I'll try to get you a pic, theres a substantial amount of mud on it.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

First off... thanks for taking the time to do this thread. Its very informative.

I'm no professional, but back before my kiddos came along I used to do custom paint as a "side gig". Did lots of motorcycles, etc. I was wondering if you had any advice as to replacing a quarter panel? My recently acquired 93GT has sideswiped something before I got it. Apparently, Helen Keller taught Stevie Wonder how to do bodywork on my car . Im trying to decide whether to strip and rework the quarter, or replace it. I've done smaller repairs, such as rocker panels, cab corners, etc... but never a quarter panel. I'll try to get you a pic, theres a substantial amount of mud on it.

Yeah, post a picture. Replacing it isn't a huge deal, if that's the way you'd like to go. Strip it first and see what's under the paint.

 

[dr hook]

as promised...

I had to beat the back edge of the quarter out just to get the taillight to bolt up, which cracked the bondo (and made some fall out lol).

 

[Davedacarpainter]

as promised...

I had to beat the back edge of the quarter out just to get the taillight to bolt up, which cracked the bondo (and made some fall out lol).

Owwwwwch! We call that caving and paving in the body shop industry. Really nasty work there, not to mention you might as well fix the hatch too.

Let me be the first to tell you, that 1/4 should go.

So, what are your plans? Have you ordered a new quarter yet?

Are you moderately handy with tools? If so, I'll walk you through the process.

 

[dr hook]

Owwwwwch! We call that caving and paving in the body shop industry. Really nasty work there, not to mention you might as well fix the hatch too.

Let me be the first to tell you, that 1/4 should go.

So, what are your plans? Have you ordered a new quarter yet?

Are you moderately handy with tools? If so, I'll walk you through the process.

Lol, that's what I figured. I have a friend that has a shell im probably going to cut the quarter out of. Ive got a shop at home, with a lift, torches, grinders, welders, da, paint gun, etc. Ive got all of the stuff to do it, its just kind of intimidating. I think the scariest thing is I will have to do the swap in a weekend, as I dd the car... and I don't want to rush and mess it up. Thanks again for taking time to reply, I really appreciate it.

 

[RaggedGT]

Don't praise Dave to much- he gets a swelled head-gets half drunk on craft beer and sits smugly in his chair and doesn't update his threads......

lol just kidding Dave

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Lol, that's what I figured. I have a friend that has a shell im probably going to cut the quarter out of. Ive got a shop at home, with a lift, torches, grinders, welders, da, paint gun, etc. Ive got all of the stuff to do it, its just kind of intimidating. I think the scariest thing is I will have to do the swap in a weekend, as I dd the car... and I don't want to rush and mess it up. Thanks again for taking time to reply, I really appreciate it.

You can get it on the car and primered in a weekend, don't try to get as far as having it refinished.

Cool that you have all the tools already, that's the biggest hold up for most people.

When you cut your new panel off the donor vehicle, take your time removing it, the more you twist, yank, and pull to get it off the old vehicle, the longer you'll need to work on it on your car. Try to go around the perimeter of the panel cutting out the factory welds, use a 1/2" belt sander (they're great for cutting into the spot welds) or drill them out with a spot weld cutter. The spot weld cutter would be pretty easy to use on the donor car since you won't care if you cut holes into the adjoining panels. BTW, cut the 1/4 off fairly high up on the sail panel, close to the roof. You'll do a bit of trimming on it before you put it on your car, this extra on the donor panel is just to play it safe until you start fitting it up.

Get the 1/4 off of the donor, and cleaned up before you tear into your car though. Do that before the weekend fix on yours.