How Much $ Would It Take To Make A Sn95 Outperform A New 5.0?

[sneaky98gt]

I'm realistic man. I know the difference between the objective stuff and the subjective stuff. For me, that doesn't make it a better car. A fox body is my dream car. Specifically, the completion of my next project is my dream car. Isn't it always? A fox was my first car as a 15 year-old. It was a car my father and I shared, and a car that my step father and I worked on together. It's a car I know every nut and bolt on. It's been customized a couple of times the way I wanted to do it. It's been both the source of amazing fun and accomplishment, and also the source of frustration/anger/disappointment. It's skull drug some guys so bad that after they stopped talking ****, they came over and searched the car because they were convinced a 302 couldn't do what it just had. It's been both overestimated and underestimated, and it represents a phase of my life. I don't care how stupid that may seem to anyone. It's nice to really want what you have. It's in-between project phases at the moment, but when I drove it around, it got all kinds of attention all the time. Attention I'm not used to in my Corvette, or in some of the older classics that my father had. I've had my tracking days, and now I'm more oriented towards straight-line stuff. Fox bodies had a well-known reputation as a fast street car, but now that reputation has passed. The older guys know they're a box of chocolates, but the younger street scene guys that don't spend a lot of time at a dragstrip never saw them as real performance cars. That's all fine with me because I like being underestimated, though now my car is so loud now that everyone knows what's up once it's running. Is it 1/2 the car that the new ones are? No... To me it's 100 times what the new ones are.

So, a guy asks what it will take to make his car faster than a new one, I assume that to them it may be what mine is to me. NVH, compliance, comfort, ride, touch screens, built in espresso makers & scrotom-massagers don't make a car better. There is actually an appeal to simplicity, and driving without traction control, ABS, active handling, launch control, etc... Frankly, I want my car to be harsh, and at least somewhat noisy. I want it to vibrate a little at idle to let people know it probably ain't a pushover.

I hear ya, man. My 98 is the car I've had since I was 15 as well, and I completely understand the passion that goes into these older cars' performance.

And I know what you mean about wanting a car that you can still feel and hear a bit. It's the reason that I still want an 03/04 Cobra one day, and not a new Coyote, even though the two are similar in price and the Coyote does nearly everything better.

Yeah, wow. Actually, your car is every bit as quick and traps as high in a straight line as my old twin-turbo combo (a small incon kit on a mild 302), which is surprising considering the considerable power difference. I'll chalk that up to your Auto not really putting all of the power it can through the dyno rollers. I'll bet you've surprised the **** outta some people with that thing. I'm glad to see that you do take pride in it, too

It actually runs quicker than that now. Last track trip was 11.9s at 121 (that was the first trip with non-stock gears [3.73s]). And since them, the blower has been ported and I'm running about 2 more pounds of boost. Just haven't been able to get back to the track in this hot weather.

And yes, it's a TON of fun to surprise the out of folks at the track with it.

 

[COramprat]

That would be a valid argument if it only got better mileage...but what if said Civic also blew your doors off, out turned, out braked and out....everything'd you as well?

Then he wouldn't have that argument...he would have a respectable car and wouldn't resort to "yeah but..."

That was my point. All the "yeah buttin' " going on.

 

[trombonedemon]

Im not gonna lie, when that 5.0 was in my hands, I was ready to sell my soul for it, "Old Lady" snap me back to reality and basically told me we were not ready for a $600.00 car note. But then realize there was a Mustang permance shop less than 2 miles from my house! Piedmont Custom Motor Sports for the win.*Dreams of being The Stig*:stig:

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Then he wouldn't have that argument...he would have a respectable car and wouldn't resort to "yeah but..."

That was my point. All the "yeah buttin' " going on.

You mean like....

....yeah, but all I have to do is add (insert power part here) to my Fox/SN95 and it would walk those new S197's

....yeah, but all I have to do is add (insert full suspension and brake set up here) to my Fox/Sn95 in order to out to handle those new S197's

....yeah, but who cares about gas mileage anyway man, it's a sports car it's supposed to be ty on gas.

....yeah, so what if I have an inferior car in every way, shape or form. At least I don't have a car payment!

or my favorite.

....yeah, but all those refinements make it less of a muscular car because creaks, groans and rattles are what makes my Fox/SN95 feel more connected to the road.

....those kinds of "Yeah but's"?

I'm totally down with someone wanting to improve their car. Even shooting to outrun/outperform a new 5.0L as their goal. It's the ones that after adding a little power to the engine, or a couple of chassis and suspension components think they've built a better mouse trap and elect to thumb their noses at the guy who bought the new Stang that my statements are directed to.

 

[COramprat]

You mean like....

....yeah, but all I have to do is add (insert power part here) to my Fox/SN95 and it would walk those new S197's

....yeah, but all I have to do is add (insert full suspension and brake set up here) to my Fox/Sn95 in order to out to handle those new S197's

....yeah, but who cares about gas mileage anyway man, it's a sports car it's supposed to be ****ty on gas.

....yeah, so what if I have an inferior car in every way, shape or form. At least I don't have a car payment!

or my favorite.

....yeah, but all those refinements make it less of a muscular car because creaks, groans and rattles are what makes my Fox/SN95 feel more connected to the road.

....those kinds of "Yeah but's"?

Egg Zachary

 

[Mattstang04]

In reference to the other "Yeah, but" statements, if you got the cash you can build an 80s Ford Fiesta or Festiva that will smoke a new Coyote. Then somebody with even more cash will come along and smoke you with a built riding lawn mower.

Find a body style or platform that speaks to you and make it your own brand of bad@$$. In the back of my mind, power built is cooler than power bought, though.

 

[FastDriver]

Find a body style or platform that speaks to you and make it your own brand of bad@$$. In the back of my mind, power built is cooler than power bought, though.

Amen! Some people's attitude will have you buying a new car every year.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Amen! Some people's attitude will have you buying a new car every year.

....and some people's attitude will have you sinking an endless amount of time and money into a pit of despair under the false guise that faster, means better.

 

[FastDriver]

Faster is better

j/k... I don't care. Honestly, I love the '97 vette, and it's not very fast, and it's bone stock. So, I don't think your comment applies to this person.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Faster is better

j/k... I don't care. Honestly, I love the '97 vette, and it's not very fast, and it's bone stock. So, I don't think your comment applies to this person.

A '97 Vette is a far superior car to either a Fox body, or SN95 Mustang. So it's no wonder you're more attracted to the "better car".

And I'm pretty sure my comments in this thread applied to someone else somewhere along the course of this thread when they sent it that direction....but for the life of me, I can't remember at this point?

 

[FastDriver]

A '97 Vette is a far superior car to either a Fox body, or SN95 Mustang. So it's no wonder you're more attracted to the "better car".

Now you're really grasping at straws...

More attracted than to what? And, who said I was "more" attracted?

You implied that I would have people dump "endless" money and time into a "pit of despair." The Corvette illustrates that your implication is false. I'm using it to show that I don't sink money into it, even though it's a performance car that isn't that fast. I can say that in all fairness too, because I am often tempted by the porsches, audis, and lambos I run into here in Germany. Hell, at the nurburgring, 80s and 90s 3-series sedans were blowing my doors off. One of the reasons that I have not modified it is because it is not better, and thus I recognize that I will want to sell it.

It seems to me that you have always believed that newer, more advanced, more complex, more engineered, more luxurious cars are "better." Some people just don't see it that way. If I could only own one car that I had to drive for the rest of my life, and money was no object, I swear it would be my finished fox-body. That means that to me, there is no better car on the planet. That doesn't mean that I don't recognize that other cars are newer, more advanced, safer, more comfortable, more luxurious, and yes obviously faster too. I'm not an F-in' robot. When it comes to passion, enjoyment, fun, excitement, love... you know, the things we live for, it doesn't come down to a formula. It comes down to personal preference. I think your attitude kinda sucks because it's fuggin' expensive and you'll never really be able to afford "better" cars than the one you have. I guess I'm lucky, as a car guy, to be happy with what I've got.

And, try not to doubt my sincerity. I suspect you would be inclined to believe that I'm just settling for what I can afford. That would be very far from the truth.

 

[FastDriver]

Oh, it also happens to work out that modifying an old mustang to outrun a new one will always work out financially in favor of the old car. So, in my opinion, your sinking endless money comment is more aptly applied to buying a new one, though I don't believe any mustang is a "pit of despair."

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Yet again, you read too far into it Chris. My "pit of dispare" comment was meant to be facetious. Or at least as facetious as your "some people would have you buy a new car every year" comment.

You're welcome to believe a fox body is the best car ever made. Of course that's an opinion...one that has no basis what so ever in reality, but whatever. I've grown to expect more "off the wall" from you than not.

The fact still remains, that as far as the Ford mustang is concerned....newer is better. That's not to say that everyone can afford to go out and buy one, or would want to, but that doesn't change the facts. The newest breed of Mustang from every technological and performance standpoint is the best ever built. Everything else is just a measure of compromise. Some people are just willing to accept said compromise to a higher degree than others, that's all. Diversity man. There's no right or wrong....just different choices based on individual need.

 

[FastDriver]

I didn't read too far into it. , those were the words on the page. I didn't recognize that you were being facetious, but then I've come to expect critical opinions from you, especially concerning this topic.

Also, I don't like being considered "off the wall." I prefer "outside of the box." In any case, I don't think most people think of my opinions so negatively.

Everything else is just a measure of compromise. Some people are just willing to accept said compromise to a higher degree than others, that's all. Diversity man. There's no right or wrong....just different choices based on individual need.

I honestly enjoy giving you , Brian. I think you really believe that the fox-body is the best, and that's why you own one. You just like being argumentative.

 

[COramprat]

My dad has a 97 Vette. It's a piece of crap. He's looking at a '13 Mustang.

 

[FastDriver]

Haha... thanks for proving my point COramprat. I wouldn't call it a piece of crap, but it has been hell in maintenance, that's for sure. A lot of guys at the corvetteforum don't seem to understand why mine has had so many problems when they haven't had any. I don't understand, either. I like it enough to keep it in top shape, but it always needs a lot of attention.

 

[Mattstang04]

Its true, you cannot equate newer with better. Otherwise some guy at Barrett Jackson wouldn't pay $330000 on a 67 Shelby GT500 instead of buying a brand new one for $60g or whatever they are going for. Its the eye of the beholder when it comes to cars.

 

[BrianRClone]

I say build you a good nitrous motor. Fordge Internals, good cam, exhuast, intake, head work, and lots of Nitrous maybe some elbow greese save some money. about 5,000 bucks or so..Including tune.. Might wanna throw in a new clutch if you have a 5 speed.

 

[FastDriver]

Its true, you cannot equate newer with better. Otherwise some guy at Barrett Jackson wouldn't pay $330000 on a 67 Shelby GT500 instead of buying a brand new one for $60g or whatever they are going for. Its the eye of the beholder when it comes to cars.

Thanks for the fantastic illustration of the point. There's probably not a single aspect of a '67 GT500 that out performs a new one. Acceleration, top speed, slalom, skidpad, braking, mileage, comfort, noise, ride, etc... The '67 GT500 is definitely the better car, though. Which one would I rather have, even if they cost the same? Hell, I mean especially if they cost the same. It's a no-brainer.

 

[Mattstang04]

Its all opinion. The style, legacy, and prestige of the old car may be what makes it the "better" car to the buyer.

I bought my car because it looked good, got decent performance for the time and the money, its reliable, and I could play with it... and because I couldn't pop the extra few grand for the Mach 1. Now I have made it my own, modified it and the experiences I have had in the past seven years would make it incredibly hard to part with.

I will never get my money back out of this car...ever...period. That's okay. If I get seven other fun cars in my life, I still hope this one will be parked somewhere in my dream garage.

It is mine, I made it what it is, that is why it is better. Stepping down off the soap box.