I've Decided To Build A 351/400

[from6to8]

I would recommend looking at a victor style intake with an elbow as opposed to an upper/lower plenum style. It may or may not suit your rpm power window you want- may want to look at that, but it's a lot less of a pita. I cant wait to lose my rpm II.

cool. I will get with my builder on exactly which route we are going as he is advising me as well. He builds race engines too so we will come up with a good plan for what I will be doing with the car.

Checking up on the Anderson power pipe reviews, google took me to a forum here on stangnet where some guys didn't like it because of how they had to do a good bit to make it fit correctly and not be a metal to metal rub where it goes through the fenderwell and also to secure it where it goes through the fenderwell. I would like some opinions on it before I buy one or have another option. I have always ran a cold air intake on my 302.

 

[TOOLOW91]

You need to set a goal hp wise and build around that . Seem to be all over on what to use. A stroker stock block windsor with the right stuff will make real healthy power for a street car. I have a friend on a 79 351 block thats .030 over (357) that just went 8.92 a few months ago single turbo, victor juniors, gt40 with a box upper and a pms with a power glide-Nothing special there.

If your going to do a 400 inch type build id get yourself a set of afr or tfs 205cc heads. Call Brian Freezy, Ed curtis , Buddy Rawls, or Bullet for custom cam.

Also before the cam choice and head choice is made you need to decide if this engine is gonna be a 10.5:1-11:1 pump gas motor all motor or if your gonna run a power adder like a blower or turbo and build for low compression.This way you can get the correct head, head gasket, piston, and then cam spec'd accordingly. Get a good intake manifold- systemax is a good one, The spider efi is nice as well. If its doable id use long tubes. My car is low. I have 1 3/4 long tubes and they still haven't touched the ground.
Another thing to plan around is emissions laws in your state. Exhaust , cam, and other stuff could be affected by this. Saying that the car is a v6 swap car i doubt its an issue in your state but just thought id bring it up.

As far as the trans A astro may hold up for you but personally id buy a tko 600 for the car over the t5 based trans. Make sure the rear is up to snuff with at least 31 spline axles.

We still haven't touched on a fuel system either-Injectors,Lines, Regulator, Rails, and pump. (Again the fuel sysetm needs to be specd around how much power you want to make). Then you'll need something to tune the car with to get it to drive like a street car should and make the power efficiently . My advice is to plan , Buy once, Dont cheap out. Youll thank youself in the long run.

@84Ttop has a gangster windsor street car. Maybe he can give some advice or touch on something i missed.

 

[from6to8]

You need to set a goal hp wise and build around that . Seem to be all over on what to use. A stroker stock block windsor with the right stuff will make real healthy power for a street car. I have a friend on a 79 351 block thats .030 over (357) that just went 8.92 a few months ago single turbo, victor juniors, gt40 with a box upper and a pms with a power glide-Nothing special there.

If your going to do a 400 inch type build id get yourself a set of afr or tfs 205cc heads. Call Brian Freezy, Ed curtis , Buddy Rawls, or Bullet for custom cam.

Also before the cam choice and head choice is made you need to decide if this engine is gonna be a 10.5:1-11:1 pump gas motor all motor or if your gonna run a power adder like a blower or turbo and build for low compression.This way you can get the correct head, head gasket, piston, and then cam spec'd accordingly. Get a good intake manifold- systemax is a good one, The spider efi is nice as well. If its doable id use long tubes. My car is low. I have 1 3/4 long tubes and they still haven't touched the ground.
Another thing to plan around is emissions laws in your state. Exhaust , cam, and other stuff could be affected by this. Saying that the car is a v6 swap car i doubt its an issue in your state but just thought id bring it up.

As far as the trans A astro may hold up for you but personally id buy a tko 600 for the car over the t5 based trans. Make sure the rear is up to snuff with at least 31 spline axles.

We still haven't touched on a fuel system either-Injectors,Lines, Regulator, Rails, and pump. (Again the fuel sysetm needs to be specd around how much power you want to make). Then you'll need something to tune the car with to get it to drive like a street car should and make the power efficiently . My advice is to plan , Buy once, Dont cheap out. Youll thank youself in the long run.

@84Ttop has a gangster windsor street car. Maybe he can give some advice or touch on something i missed.

Cool thanks. I'll fill you in in the morning. I've got most ironed out. Just need advice on a k member and few other things I. Morn. K member as to what all will fit together and not need modding to fit. Will finish in morn

Hey in case you won't get an alert to the reply this morning, I will reply in another post right now. I'm doing as an edit now and not sure it sends an alert on the edit to a response

 

[from6to8]

Cool thanks. I'll fill you in in the morning. I've got most ironed out. Just need advice on a k member and few other things I. Morn. K member as to what all will fit together and not need modding to fit. Will finish in morn

Hey in case you won't get an alert to the reply this morning, I will reply in another post right now. I'm doing as an edit now and not sure it sends an alert on the edit to a response

Using my own quote so it may send a notice

Ok the last time I spoke with my builder the other day he helped me to understand a lot about the route he is going to take and it makes a lot of sense to me. I will go with the Dart block with big bore and the appropriate crank to achieve the best results for what I want will be used. I won't run nitrous or any forced induction. I am going with the AFR 205's or the Dart 205s. He recommends me going with the Dart cast iron heads and some of the reasons make sense especially the around 600 or maybe a little more cost difference. Also the extra weight may help in lowering my car some in the front which currently is higher than the rear. I have considered coil overs or another spring , maybe the H &R as suggested by Max motorsports last night when i called them.

He said something to the effect of the whole thermal efficiency of the aluminum vs the cast iron and dissipating heat better factor. But basically I love the aluminum heads, the look of them even though they will be hidden mostly by the VC's. So I may just go with the AFR's overall. He will grind the cam. Going to be pump gas, premium ran. I think we will lean toward the 1 5/8 longtubes or maybe stick with shorties but will know more later in the game. No emissions to worry about here. I've read a lot of reviews about the Astro being the smoothest shifting trans and guys buying the tremec a lot didn't really like it, plus having to change up some things to make it work.

I have a 255 fuel pump already. He recommended the new spray technology injectors, though pricey. Will it be more beneficial to use upgraded fuel rails and maybe lines? I can see the rails but not sure about the lines. I will get with him about a lot of the other little questions later on in the game as well. I have an adjustable fp regulator but will get a new one. I will put my motor and if not sell, will leave it mostly setup like it is now on an engine stand. Definitely on the spend once and do it right the first time unlike I was back in 03 when i changed combos a few times up till around 05

 

[A5literMan]

Fuel rails and lines are maxed out around 500rwhp.

I love big bore Dart builds! It's the best way to go for many reasons. But you're kind of all over the place with some of the ideas you're saying.
1- DONT cheap out on the heads! Buy the aluminum AFR heads.
2-DONT throw small exhaust on! You have to have a properly sized exhaust system. To move air in- you have to move exhaust out.
3- If 500 or so is the maximum amount of power you want to make, you don't need to use a dart block. You're spending at least 1500$ extra there. Now again I think the Dart block is a great idea for many reasons but if this is a street car(not making above 5-600hp) you could have done it with a production block.
4- Fuel system..255lph pump will be fine if staying at that power level and staying n/a. If you have plans for anything more...forced induction,more extreme n/a build,etc you'll need more pump.
5- You're going to need to address the ecu. Stock electronics isn't going to work.
6- You really should look into an upgraded TKO trans. Check out Liberty Gears for their upgraded TKO package.

 

[from6to8]

Fuel rails and lines are maxed out around 500rwhp.

I love big bore Dart builds! It's the best way to go for many reasons. But you're kind of all over the place with some of the ideas you're saying.
1- DONT cheap out on the heads! Buy the aluminum AFR heads.
2-DONT throw small exhaust on! You have to have a properly sized exhaust system. To move air in- you have to move exhaust out.
3- If 500 or so is the maximum amount of power you want to make, you don't need to use a dart block. You're spending at least 1500$ extra there. Now again I think the Dart block is a great idea for many reasons but if this is a street car(not making above 5-600hp) you could have done it with a production block.
4- Fuel system..255lph pump will be fine if staying at that power level and staying n/a. If you have plans for anything more...forced induction,more extreme n/a build,etc you'll need more pump.
5- You're going to need to address the ecu. Stock electronics isn't going to work.
6- You really should look into an upgraded TKO trans. Check out Liberty Gears for their upgraded TKO package.

I'm sure he wouldn't tell me to get heads that wouldn't work and do very well, after all he builds race engines. I mean I'm leaning more toward the AFR but I believe the Dart 205's are a good head as well. He definitely has recommended me not to cheap out, but properly match things for sure. Some of the things further along the build he will advise me on.

He said too big of an exhaust might be overkill and hurt torque. He did say he think i should be fine with 1 3/4 though and i didn't ask him about the 1 5/8's, I was just thinking out loud.

He advised on the Dart to go big bore, not have to use as long a crank, and have a nice monster vs going stock 351 block and longer crank stroking.

I'd say I will be 400 ish or over but not 500 probably so might just stick with the fuel lines but might upgrade depending on cost.

As for the ECU and electronics, I will have a tune. Is that what you mean as for upgrade? Car was tuned by Chris Tuten for my current setup.

a lot of guys have talked good about the Astro. I'd think I'd be fine for what I want to do. The astro uses all the ugraded parts and gearing as theTKO from what I've heard. How much would the upgraded TKO be and which one specifically are you referring to?

 

[TOOLOW91]

I have a dart 8.2 deck big bore fun times its makes just shy of 6 at the tire on relatively low boost . I'd go AFR as well . 1 3/4 long tubes . K member is a bolt in deal . Many guys run UPR , maximum MOTORSPORTS and team z with no issues .


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

 

[from6to8]

I have a dart 8.2 deck big bore fun times its makes just shy of 6 at the tire on relatively low boost . I'd go AFR as well . 1 3/4 long tubes . K member is a bolt in deal . Many guys run UPR , maximum MOTORSPORTS and team z with no issues .


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

yah but I'm going NA
what does the k member provide? I'd guess more overall stability for the extra cubes and power?

also I want to be able to have zero issues with oil pan clearance also so if I need to buy certain pieces that will fit well and work well together, I hope some guys will chime in with things to use/not use. I think I read where some 7 qt oil pans had issues or something with clearance; tho my builder said earlier when we first started talking that a 6 qt might b sufficient

 

[TOOLOW91]

yah but I'm going NA
what does the k member provide? I'd guess more overall stability for the extra cubes and power?

also I want to be able to have zero issues with oil pan clearance also so if I need to buy certain pieces that will fit well and work well together, I hope some guys will chime in with things to use/not use. I think I read where some 7 qt oil pans had issues or something with clearance; tho my builder said earlier when we first started talking that a 6 qt might b sufficient

yes I know was just giving you an example of how they make power .

K member is just lighter and a bit more clearance . Stock k members are plenty beefy . I have a 7qt canton on mine with no issues with a stock k.


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

 

[from6to8]

yes I know was just giving you an example of how they make power .

K member is just lighter and a bit more clearance . Stock k members are plenty beefy . I have a 7qt canton on mine with no issues with a stock k.


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

yeah I'm not worrying about weight really lol. I will probably keep my stock k if I won't have issues

as for fuel lines I wonder if I'll be fine? I have a 255 already in. I might want to change the fuel rails IF NEED only because they will dress up a little but if mine will be ok I might leave them. I think I read the stockers should support up to 500 hp. I do need to get another fp regulator. Some things I might use off my engine, like the liquid filled fp gauge.

 

[revhead347]

Just my 2 cents, you can make a hell of a 302 based engine for the same money you spend on a junk 351. It just eats you up in swap parts. I've seen a lot of friends go down the money road with the 351 swaps. Anything with iron heads is just a waste of time. If this were a race engine you were putting 110 octane in, I could understand. For a street car that has to run on 93 octane on both hot and cold days, the iron heads become a nuisance.

Kurt

 

[from6to8]

Just my 2 cents, you can make a hell of a 302 based engine for the same money you spend on a junk 351. It just eats you up in swap parts. I've seen a lot of friends go down the money road with the 351 swaps. Anything with iron heads is just a waste of time. If this were a race engine you were putting 110 octane in, I could understand. For a street car that has to run on 93 octane on both hot and cold days, the iron heads become a nuisance.

Kurt

Yes I have decided to get the Dart and will run AFRs.

What's your take on me using the stock k member? I will probably run 1 3/4 LTs, possibly 1 5/8's depending on the builder recommendation for the build further along

also want to make sure oil pan and everything clears. He said a 6 qt may be fine.

Solid motor mounts and rubber Trans mount? 400 ci engine

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

yah but I'm going NA
what does the k member provide? I'd guess more overall stability for the extra cubes and power?

also I want to be able to have zero issues with oil pan clearance also so if I need to buy certain pieces that will fit well and work well together, I hope some guys will chime in with things to use/not use. I think I read where some 7 qt oil pans had issues or something with clearance; tho my builder said earlier when we first started talking that a 6 qt might b sufficient

An aftermarket k member, the likes of the typical UPR is intended as a lightweight replacement for the stocker. The main benefit being additional header clearance at the compromise of structural integrity. The k member that mm sells is significantly more expensive because it is intended to replace the stock k member while reducing weight w/o sacrificing structural ( read handeling) integrity. If your intent is to build a street driven drag car, then the UPR is the right choice,....if you intend to auto cross, or better, you may wanna look into the reasons Griggs, and MM sell their versions.

 

[from6to8]

An aftermarket k member, the likes of the typical UPR is intended as a lightweight replacement for the stocker. The main benefit being additional header clearance at the compromise of structural integrity. The k member that mm sells is significantly more expensive because it is intended to replace the stock k member while reducing weight w/o sacrificing structural ( read handeling) integrity. If your intent is to build a street driven drag car, then the UPR is the right choice,....if you intend to auto cross, or better, you may wanna look into the reasons Griggs, and MM sell their versions.

Ok. My intent is for the car to be a weekend driver. May drive fri and sat sometimes. In other words car might be driven sometimes once a week, sometimes 2-3 times a week but mainly on the weekends. I may drive to work every once in awhile maybe one day out of the week. It will be a non track car, just play around on the street sometimes. I will more than likely go with the 1 3/4 ceramic LT's. Will I be fine with clearance for the stock K member. My builder said I should be ok with a 6 qt oil pan but we talked about a 331 also earlier in the conversation. Not sure I will need a 6 or 7 until he clarifies. I haven't started on the motor yet. Getting everything finalized.

Any tidbits you guys can give me will be much helpful. I want to avoid clearance issues and especially because more than likely we will be dropping the motor and stuff in here in my garage without a lift. Not sure yet but I may have the car towed to my mechanics who has a lift. It's just another 32 miles or so to his shop.

And what about Motor and tranny mounts. I'm thinking to go with solid motor mounts and a rubber tranny mount as I have been reading up a good bit on things that has worked. My boy did a 408 and had the poly tranny mount in from the 331. He did go to solid motor mounts. When he went to the track and heated up the tires, the tranny mount gave and he messed up a lot of stuff. He said he should have went with a solid tranny mount and I believe he just switched to one but hadn't talked to him yet. From everything I've been reading though going all solids is a bad idea or no?

When I was going to go 331 I had a list and was going to go with a Spec clutch. Which stage? Or is there a better softer clutch to go with? I've always ran king cobras with my 302.

 

[A5literMan]

Check out energy suspension mounts. If you have the money I'd go with a Ram dual disc clutch. Spec clutches tend to be aggressive and hit hard. Some people love them...and others don't. I would think you'd need at least a stage 2.

 

[from6to8]

Check out energy suspension mounts. If you have the money I'd go with a Ram dual disc clutch. Spec clutches tend to be aggressive and hit hard. Some people love them...and others don't. I would think you'd need at least a stage 2.

Yeah but which mounts lol. If you can re-read what I said in post no. 34 about should I go solid motors and rubber tranny mount.

thanks

 

[TOOLOW91]

An aftermarket k member, the likes of the typical UPR is intended as a lightweight replacement for the stocker. The main benefit being additional header clearance at the compromise of structural integrity. The k member that mm sells is significantly more expensive because it is intended to replace the stock k member while reducing weight w/o sacrificing structural ( read handeling) integrity. If your intent is to build a street driven drag car, then the UPR is the right choice,....if you intend to auto cross, or better, you may wanna look into the reasons Griggs, and MM sell their versions.

I've witnessed nick @84Ttop and various others smash that UPR stuff up off monster wheelies and not break anything . The upr of the old vs now I believe is a bit different .


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

 

[from6to8]

I've witnessed nick @84Ttop and various others smash that UPR stuff up off monster wheelies and not break anything . The upr of the old vs now I believe is a bit different .


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

in ref to post no. 34, whats your opinion on rather I can stay with the stocker or do I need an aftermarket one?

 

[TOOLOW91]

in ref to post no. 34, whats your opinion on rather I can stay with the stocker or do I need an aftermarket one?

There's no need for an aftermarket one unless you want it . It does make it easier for clearance .

I have a stock k member in my car with 1 3/4 long tubes and a 7qt canton road race pan to keep the ground clearance and I have no issues . I dimpled one header tube slightly to keep it away from the corner of the pan. Other side I dimpled the floor where the heater core drain is again for the header and that was it .


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

 

[from6to8]

There's no need for an aftermarket one unless you want it . It does make it easier for clearance .

I have a stock k member in my car with 1 3/4 long tubes and a 7qt canton road race pan to keep the ground clearance and I have no issues . I dimpled one header tube slightly to keep it away from the corner of the pan. Other side I dimpled the floor where the heater core drain is again for the header and that was it .


Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate

Yeah I want to do it once and do it right and not kick myself later so I want the most convenience, or convenience rather where it's not going to cost an arm and a leg.
Is there absolutely No having to dent the header or floor possibly with an aftermarket K member lol?

and when you say easier for clearance do you mean clearance getting the LT's bolted up/putting on?

is your car lowered and if so do you have issues when it rains and O2's getting wet? Scraping issues?