Need Help Rebuilding Mustang

[Stupafied]

Backstory, got sold a lemon engine that blew it's headgasket after the 30 day warranty was over. So now my mustang is sitting in my parking lot til I get it a new engine. But I want to be able to reach close to 380-400 HP possibly more. I don't have the budget to stick a supercharger after rebuilding the engine immediately so I want to know what I can pull off so far.
My current mods are :
3.73 Gears
Steeda Dual Exhaust
Steeda CAI
Steeda Clutch + Quadrant
Dragon 75mm Throttle body

My idea is to buy a new 4.6L 2V Engine Block along with this kit to rebuild the engine from scratch. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...jI19WGjRgXbc-Pus88C_ctiKOtC_aIWE4zhoCYrPw_wcB

Was wondering if I added a tune along to this would I be able to reach my desired HP. I'm open to all thoughts since I'm still a rookie when it comes to building cars.

 

[Three50won]

If you have experience turning a wrench then it is possible you could save a lot of money and do the work yourself.

 

[84Ttop]

Are you looking for 400fwhp or 400rwhp, there is a huge difference.
A stock rebuild will not achieve either of these goals, what is the budget you're working with? Why would you rebuild a new 2v? Or am I reading that wrong?

 

[Stupafied]

Hm. I reviewed my plan again and what I originally wanted to do was build a brand new 2v engine from scratch with forged internals + other assemblies. I figured getting 400 rwhp is not possible without a supercharger so my question NOW is. If I buy a 4.6L 2v SOHC engine from a junkyard, change the PI heads, and possible forged rods + pistons, along with a Vortech S-trim supercharger kit + a tune, would 400rwhp be possible?

 

[84Ttop]

Hm. I reviewed my plan again and what I originally wanted to do was build a brand new 2v engine from scratch with forged internals + other assemblies. I figured getting 400 rwhp is not possible without a supercharger so my question NOW is. If I buy a 4.6L 2v SOHC engine from a junkyard, change the PI heads, and possible forged rods + pistons, along with a Vortech S-trim supercharger kit + a tune, would 400rwhp be possible?

Junk yard 2v 4.6 and an S trim will fall just short of 400rwhp (360-380 if I were guessing). If you added good internals, Ported heads and cams you will be in the 400+rwhp area all day long while staying conservative enough on the tune up to expect some longevity. In the end, what is your budget?

 

[84Ttop]

This biggest reason asking for the budget is there are more options than just swapping in another 2v motor

 

[Stupafied]

I would love to know what your option would be, I'm going to be running around 5-6k budget. maybe a little more

 

[Stupafied]

Junk yard 2v 4.6 and an S trim will fall just short of 400rwhp (360-380 if I were guessing). If you added good internals, Ported heads and cams you will be in the 400+rwhp area all day long while staying conservative enough on the tune up to expect some longevity. In the end, what is your budget?

If by ported heads and cams you mean something like TrickFlow Twisted Wedge 185 Cylinder heads then yeah that's something I might end up putting in the car. Right now my budget won't really matter because as a little project car I'm just going to be saving up atleast a grand a month from jobs and will want it built atleast before the end of the year, before July would be awesome but right now I don't see that happening haha, if I say something weird just know that I'm still an idiot and still learning how to build cars

 

[84Ttop]

I would love to know what your option would be, I'm going to be running around 5-6k budget. maybe a little more

The best bang for your buck right new is the coyote swap. The coyote motor makes 420 fwhp right out of the gate and will work with your current transmission. You can typically find these motors on car-parts.com for 2,500-3,000$. If you use the ford racing computer harness and ecm kit you'll be almost there and can stay within your budget. Moving forward you will be able to more easily increase the HP output of that motor vs. building a 2v. With the budget stated, half would be used right off the bat with the purchase of a supercharger kit, the other swallowed up in heads and parts very quickly.
@Steve@CJPony could help point you towards the swap components needed for the coyote if you decide to go that route. It's worth looking into in my opinion.

 

[Three50won]

I would not recommend a Coyote swap for a beginner. It won't be a drop in, plug and play swap. Fpr a beginner, without doing your own work, there really is not going to be an economical choice if you're looking for 400 hp and you have an engine with a blown head gasket in the car right now. My advice would be to just get the car repaired for now and enjoy it. Don't go dumping money into it right off the bat. I say that because without knowledge and experience and/or someone like a close friend to guide you along the way, you're gonna be in for a lot of heartache and you're gonna go thru a lot of money very fast. And eventually you'll become discontent when looking back at everything. The best bet is to just fix what is broken, enjoy your car, learn along the way, and take things slow. Right now you have a blown head gasket. So either just get the head gasket replaced or have an entire engine dropped in. Either way you're gonna spend around $1500-$2000. Once it is back up and running, just drive it for a while and plan what you want for it. If 400 hp is your goal then you can get that easily with a Vortech supercharger and some LT headers. All on the stock block. It will be a good running car that will last a good amount of time and have great driveability. Then when you're ready to go further and you've learned more, you can do other things like cams, ported heads, built bottom ends, etc.

BTW, here are some average prices for stuff if you shop around...
Head gasket replacement kit (comes with gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, head bolts) approx $150
PI heads you can find for cheap all day. Typical prices are around $200-$300
Most machine shops will clean and machine PI heads for $100 giving you a clean new fresh surface and will pretty much make them look brand new
PI engines used on Craigslist go for around $600 if you shop around. You could find one close to you, pick it up yourself, and drop it off at the shop that'll be doing the work
Engine installs go for around $1000-$1200 depending on the place
Head gasket replacement labor at shops typically can go from $1200 - close to $2000 depending on the shop

So like I said, first just get it back on the road. Later down the line you can do performance mods to it. But as a beginner, if you don't know how to do this type of work or how to fix things if something goes wrong or everything involved in the kind of swap you want then a seemingly simple swap will turn into a complete nightmare. And that is if you can even find a shop that is willing to do the work. Wait until you know more.

 

[Stupafied]

I would not recommend a Coyote swap for a beginner. It won't be a drop in, plug and play swap. Fpr a beginner, without doing your own work, there really is not going to be an economical choice if you're looking for 400 hp and you have an engine with a blown head gasket in the car right now. My advice would be to just get the car repaired for now and enjoy it. Don't go dumping money into it right off the bat. I say that because without knowledge and experience and/or someone like a close friend to guide you along the way, you're gonna be in for a lot of heartache and you're gonna go thru a lot of money very fast. And eventually you'll become discontent when looking back at everything. The best bet is to just fix what is broken, enjoy your car, learn along the way, and take things slow. Right now you have a blown head gasket. So either just get the head gasket replaced or have an entire engine dropped in. Either way you're gonna spend around $1500-$2000. Once it is back up and running, just drive it for a while and plan what you want for it. If 400 hp is your goal then you can get that easily with a Vortech supercharger and some LT headers. All on the stock block. It will be a good running car that will last a good amount of time and have great driveability. Then when you're ready to go further and you've learned more, you can do other things like cams, ported heads, built bottom ends, etc.

BTW, here are some average prices for stuff if you shop around...
Head gasket replacement kit (comes with gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, head bolts) approx $150
PI heads you can find for cheap all day. Typical prices are around $200-$300
Most machine shops will clean and machine PI heads for $100 giving you a clean new fresh surface and will pretty much make them look brand new
PI engines used on Craigslist go for around $600 if you shop around. You could find one close to you, pick it up yourself, and drop it off at the shop that'll be doing the work
Engine installs go for around $1000-$1200 depending on the place
Head gasket replacement labor at shops typically can go from $1200 - close to $2000 depending on the shop

So like I said, first just get it back on the road. Later down the line you can do performance mods to it. But as a beginner, if you don't know how to do this type of work or how to fix things if something goes wrong or everything involved in the kind of swap you want then a seemingly simple swap will turn into a complete nightmare. And that is if you can even find a shop that is willing to do the work. Wait until you know more.

That's good to know. But I'm most likely not going to fix the 5.4L. I barely have any idea of what car it came from, I'm expecting a F-150, but I'd rather get a 4.6L 2v and start from there. I'm building up options of what I can do to restore my car and have it running with my expected goal of a mere 400rwhp. What I'd need to know is if I got a 4.6L 2V from a junkyard, what would need to be done? I'm already planning on a PI Head change, and maybe rods + pistons. and ofc LT Heads. I don't know what else I would have to do to the internal of the engine.

 

[Three50won]

That's good to know. But I'm most likely not going to fix the 5.4L. I barely have any idea of what car it came from, I'm expecting a F-150, but I'd rather get a 4.6L 2v and start from there. I'm building up options of what I can do to restore my car and have it running with my expected goal of a mere 400rwhp. What I'd need to know is if I got a 4.6L 2V from a junkyard, what would need to be done? I'm already planning on a PI Head change, and maybe rods + pistons. and ofc LT Heads. I don't know what else I would have to do to the internal of the engine.

Your Mustang should have a 4.6 in it already...not a 5.4. If you got a 4.6 from the junkyard, if it is fully dressed, then you would just need to drop it in and carry over all the electrical stuff. If it is just a long block with no accessories, then just carry over your accessories and electrical stuff.

As far as a forged bottom end, you could re-use the GT crank shaft. They are good for a lot of power. Probably over 700 hp to the wheels. You would need forged H-Beam rods and forged pistons. Some people say you can use Coyote or Boss 302 rods. But I'm not soo sure that they can handle high boost. To each their own tho. You would need the rotating assembly balanced and the block machined. And then you would need to put it all together. Of course that would be the time to do ported heads and aftermarket or custom cams. Expect it to be costly and to take a lot of time. Which is why I say to just enjoy the car for now and learn as you go.

 

[84Ttop]

I'm still a proponent for a coyote swap, I've done this to half a dozen cars over the past few years and as long as you're using a manual trans it's very straight forward. All of the harnesses are plug and play and you literally need zero fabrication skills. If a "mere" 400rwhp is what you're after, this is the way to go. Making 400rwhp with a 2v is going to prove a lot more difficult. Factor the cost of rebuilding the 2v with good parts plus the cost of the blower kit and you have already far exceeded your 6,000$ budget and don't have proper fuel components or a tune. For that same 6,000$ budget you can have a N/A coyote in the car set up ready to go that will make very comparable horse power and leave you a ton of room to grow.

Just my .02 cents here, while it's easy to make big power these days you still need to do so with the right parts, big power typically means big expense. There are always a few ways to skin a cat and anymore I've seen more and more people wanting more and more hp, especially after these newer cars are coming stock boasting some rather stout numbers. Choose a solid foundation, work out all of the details and budget for every last part and piece you can think of before moving in any one direction. Your 400rwhp goal with a 2v 4.6 is going to prove costly and I feel that you can obtain similar results while staying within you budget by exploring other avenues.

 

[Three50won]

I'm still a proponent for a coyote swap, I've done this to half a dozen cars over the past few years and as long as you're using a manual trans it's very straight forward. All of the harnesses are plug and play and you literally need zero fabrication skills. If a "mere" 400rwhp is what you're after, this is the way to go. Making 400rwhp with a 2v is going to prove a lot more difficult. Factor the cost of rebuilding the 2v with good parts plus the cost of the blower kit and you have already far exceeded your 6,000$ budget and don't have proper fuel components or a tune. For that same 6,000$ budget you can have a N/A coyote in the car set up ready to go that will make very comparable horse power and leave you a ton of room to grow.

Just my .02 cents here, while it's easy to make big power these days you still need to do so with the right parts, big power typically means big expense. There are always a few ways to skin a cat and anymore I've seen more and more people wanting more and more hp, especially after these newer cars are coming stock boasting some rather stout numbers. Choose a solid foundation, work out all of the details and budget for every last part and piece you can think of before moving in any one direction. Your 400rwhp goal with a 2v 4.6 is going to prove costly and I feel that you can obtain similar results while staying within you budget by exploring other avenues.

Where are you getting these prices? The cheapest I've ever seen a Coyote go for is $4K not including shipping. Add in the cost of install, ECU, fuel pump upgrade, and any modifications you might need to do (like the TB cable etc) and you're looking at around $6K. For $2000-$2500 you could get a complete S-Trim or P1SC along with fuel upgrades and a Sniper SF tuning system, install everything yourself with basic hand tools, self-tune it, and have 350-400 hp easily.

 

[84Ttop]

Where are you getting these prices? The cheapest I've ever seen a Coyote go for is $4K not including shipping. Add in the cost of install, ECU, fuel pump upgrade, and any modifications you might need to do (like the TB cable etc) and you're looking at around $6K. For $2000-$2500 you could get a complete S-Trim or P1SC along with fuel upgrades and a Sniper SF tuning system, install everything yourself with basic hand tools, self-tune it, and have 350-400 hp easily.

Car-parts.com is where I've bought the last few coyotes. I haven't paid more than 2500 for a complete motor with accessories, t/b to pan. If you're doing the install yourself a 6k $ budget is very doable.

As far as buying used blower kits, that is a gamble I don't ever recommend. I do however always offer to help anyone looking at a used Vortech to obtain factory service records and build date information if that is the route they decide to go.

I also don't recommend self tuning a blower car, or any power adder car for that matter. What software are you using to tune the modular cars? We have the capacity to burn sct chips or sct hand held in our shop but that is hardly available to the home enthusiast.

If you are recommending an aftermarket set of modular heads for the 2v the 6k budget is out the window. The stock pI heads and cams will make 400fwhp with a blower but will undoubtedly fall short of the 400rwhp figure without quite a bit of boost. Again this leads me back to the hesitation to recommend self tuning and potentially destroying a newly rebuilt motor.

 

[Three50won]

Car-parts.com is where I've bought the last few coyotes. I haven't paid more than 2500 for a complete motor with accessories, t/b to pan. If you're doing the install yourself a 6k $ budget is very doable.

As far as buying used blower kits, that is a gamble I don't ever recommend. I do however always offer to help anyone looking at a used Vortech to obtain factory service records and build date information if that is the route they decide to go.

I also don't recommend self tuning a blower car, or any power adder car for that matter. What software are you using to tune the modular cars? We have the capacity to burn sct chips or sct hand held in our shop but that is hardly available to the home enthusiast.

If you are recommending an aftermarket set of modular heads for the 2v the 6k budget is out the window. The stock pI heads and cams will make 400fwhp with a blower but will undoubtedly fall short of the 400rwhp figure without quite a bit of boost. Again this leads me back to the hesitation to recommend self tuning and potentially destroying a newly rebuilt motor.

I have been using Sniper SF for quite a while. It is very user friendly, very easy to use, and is pretty much fool-proof. After I used that for a while I got into using Tuner Pro and QH. That is much more involved and requires a bit more knowledge. But Sniper is easy as pie. I always recommend people get into tuning themselves. It saves you money, lots of money, as well as time and trips to the dyno. Plus it gives you something to do on weekends or when you get more parts etc.

 

[84Ttop]

I have been using Sniper SF for quite a while. It is very user friendly, very easy to use, and is pretty much fool-proof. After I used that for a while I got into using Tuner Pro and QH. That is much more involved and requires a bit more knowledge. But Sniper is easy as pie. I always recommend people get into tuning themselves. It saves you money, lots of money, as well as time and trips to the dyno. Plus it gives you something to do on weekends or when you get more parts etc.

Is the MAF transfer function adjustable as well as all of the timing tables? I'm not familiar with Sniper. I started years ago with Andersons PMS and we currently tune with SCT and HP Tuners on "Calibrator" level software.

 

[Three50won]

With SF you cannot do that. But with Commando you can do all that just like the SCT PRP.

 

[rconaway]

Instead of a Coyote swap, an easier way would be to simply port the heads with someone like Livermore. You can get to about 330rwhp with that combo on PI heads. Put a supercharger on it and now you are talking 650-700rwhp or more.