Fox New To The Forum And Curious!

[Btrainfiveoh]

Hey guys, after tons of time google searching and reading forums, I figured why not actually join one so I could chat/ask questions.
Not fully sure how this works so my appologies right off the bat if I'm not supposed to post in this specific area.

I have just gotten a 1989 mustang lx 5.0 hatch. 5spd. Got it 100% stock.
As of now, I have thrown a cold air intake(sve), 3G alternator upgrade(sve kit), flowmaster 40 series cat back, tokiko struts and shocks and eibach sportlines, and subframe connectors.

Up next I think is an offroad h pipe and maybe 3.55 gears.

Me and my old man are also working on a 1970 mustang 351c 2v... Complete resto and lots of money being dumped into it, but moreover it'll be a weekend cruiser with "decent" power, never going to see the track.
Hence I got the fox, cheap, and in good condition, figured id build a budget stang to have fun in... Again, not looking for 3-400 hp blown foxbody. Im happy with how it is now, just wish it had a bit more power up top(I feel like after 4000 rpm it kinda runs out of steam sort of speak.

A friend had a fox he wrote off, he had full exhaust, e303, upper and lower intake, tb, maf, cai, gears... And stock e7 heads with upgraded valve springs. He never got it dyno'd (not that I know of atleast) and he loved how his car performed. Wasn't a dragster or nothing, but I had been in his car a few times and it seemed to pull quite hard and wasn't lazy by no means...but reading forums here about e303 with stock heads everyone seems to be super against it and saying it's a waste.

My question is, is it truly a waste or somewhat worth it...(especially love the idle sound of an e303)


Sorry for the essay and thanks!

 

[GroverDill]

Waste is a strong term. If you are expecting huge performance gains for a cam in a stock e7 car you will likely be disappointed with the effort and cost to install the cam.

Only you can make that decision. Would I tear apart a good running stock 5.0 to do just an E cam? no way.

 

[Btrainfiveoh]

Waste is a strong term. If you are expecting huge performance gains for a cam in a stock e7 car you will likely be disappointed with the effort and cost to install the cam.

Only you can make that decision. Would I tear apart a good running stock 5.0 to do just an E cam? no way.

Thanks for the reply. No I am not expecting huge gains, like I said, I deff love the sound of the e303 cam. I can get one fairly cheap, hence I was thinking of that cam. And id do the tb, maf, upper and lower intake before the e303... And possibly, next year do heads(but I'm just not sure how far I want to take the project on this car).

What kind of performance gains will just the maf, tb, upper and lower intake do for me... Would that help in the upper rpms?
From what I've seen from the google searching and what not is the bottle neck on these cars is the lower intake and the heads?

 

[A5literMan]

Thanks for the reply. No I am not expecting huge gains, like I said, I deff love the sound of the e303 cam. I can get one fairly cheap, hence I was thinking of that cam. And id do the tb, maf, upper and lower intake before the e303... And possibly, next year do heads(but I'm just not sure how far I want to take the project on this car).

What kind of performance gains will just the maf, tb, upper and lower intake do for me... Would that help in the upper rpms?
From what I've seen from the google searching and what not is the bottle neck on these cars is the lower intake and the heads?

With all those mods you should see 25 or so rwhp maybe slightly more. The e cam sweet spot is 3-5500 rpm. They are softer than a stock cam below 3000. It's a mix rpm cam

 

[Btrainfiveoh]

Oh i

With all those mods you should see 25 or so rwhp maybe slightly more. The e cam sweet spot is 3-5500 rpm. They are softer than a stock cam below 3000. It's a mix rpm cam

Oh ic. Okay, seems like id be pleased... 25-30 whp and 3.55 gears from the 3.08's I have now should make for a fairly "fun" daily pusher for a bit atleast.

Now if I plan on doing heads possibly in a year or so is it worth upgrading yen springs on tense stock e7's or no?

 

[RangerJoe]

In the hay day, when the frpp cams were coming out, there were not a lot of affordable heads or intakes available. Back then, swapping an e cam in was a good deal. Now a days, it is very easy to double the HP of these cars and most people are not satisfied with the cost and effort involved in swapping a cam alone, when it only nets you a few HP.

Joe

 

[RangerJoe]

Nice looking cars by the way!

Joe

 

[Btrainfiveoh]

In the hay day, when the frpp cams were coming out, there were not a lot of affordable heads or intakes available. Back then, swapping an e cam in was a good deal. Now a days, it is very easy to double the HP of these cars and most people are not satisfied with the cost and effort involved in swapping a cam alone, when it only nets you a few HP.

Joe

Thanks joe. And yeah I know a solid hci combo makes a world of a difference on these cars. The thing is, I'm in canada. I've looked at a set of trickflow heads or edelbrock performers... Out here they're about 15-1600 ish. And even if I buy them in the states, after the dollars exchange rate, it's still going to be 15-16 maybe even 1700.. Then the cam, intake and whatever else, after I'm said and done I can see it getting close to 3g. And I know on a performance aspect I'll be very pleased but I don't want to end up spending that kind of money on this car, just because that's how it all started with the 1970. Now I've probably invested over 15k in the 70(not including what I paid to get it) it's nice and rare(out here) and I love it but I'm not even close to being done... So after a while it's kind of like hmm ! Shoulda watched the budget a bit!

 

[A5literMan]

you can buy some used aluminums for 1/2 that price. Also you could find some explorer gt40 iron heads in a junkyard and rebuild those for around a 500$ investment. Any option is better than the stock e7's. But if $$ is just to tight then rock what you've got.

 

[Btrainfiveoh]

you can buy some used aluminums for 1/2 that price. Also you could find some explorer gt40 iron heads in a junkyard and rebuild those for around a 500$ investment. Any option is better than the stock e7's. But if $$ is just to tight then rock what you've got.

Yeah, not necessarily too tight. But I know if I end up starting like that on this car... The old lady may have a few things to say haha, although she does enjoy her mustangs as well. Hmm used aluminum heads? Where do you recommend me searching? And I've tried hunting gt40 heads from local wreck yards... Literally everyone I've come across that has a 95-96 explorer the heads have been taken off already but I'm still keeping that option open, because like you said, it'd be a cheap investment and still bet some decent power

 

[A5literMan]

Check the used parts section on the Corral.com. I've bought a few things there. There are always used heads in the Windsor engine parts section.

 

[A5literMan]

Oops... The corral.net. Not .com

 

[Btrainfiveoh]

Oops... The corral.net. Not .com

Sweet! Thanks man I'll give that a check very shortly. Another thing, anybody else have a lowered fox? I hear from everyone lowered foxs have horrible rides... Maybe I was expecting a horrible ride because of everyone's comments but I love my ride! It's really nice on nice roads and definitely less wushu washy, a nice balance between comfort and firm. Don't understand why people expect or want a mustang to ride like a cadillac anyway!

 

[mikestang63]

What I would do if it were my car- put a set of 1.7 RR on the stock cam and get the same hp increase without tearing apart the motor, and retain the lower end torque and drive manners.

IMO, the e7's are junk and putting a cam in while leaving those heads and the stock intake on is a waste of time and money. Wait until you do an HCI swa.

 

[Btrainfiveoh]

What I would do if it were my car- put a set of 1.7 RR on the stock cam and get the same hp increase without tearing apart the motor, and retain the lower end torque and drive manners.

IMO, the e7's are junk and putting a cam in while leaving those heads and the stock intake on is a waste of time and money. Wait until you do an HCI swa.

Another reason I want to do a cam (e303 or tfs1 or something along those lines) is because of the sound. Absolutely love the idle sound of a cammed out car.(I know that alone shouldn't be a good enough reason) and yeah, I'm I'm looking on corral and calling a few other places too, if I can get used heads for 5-600 canadian or new ones for 1000 that would be great.

 

[cleanLX]

I posted this elsewhere but feel the need to repeat it here.
My .02.
When my car had MAM, long tubes, full exhaust and 4.10's, otherwise factory original it was dead reliable, and an absolute blast on the street and at the track chasing a 12 second time slip (which I finally got on a 2600' DA morning here in the desert). Sometimes I wish I had done suspension work and installed a T-Moss lower and called it a day. Would have been a 12.8 second car in the desert, 12.40-12.60 car at sea level, and knocked down 26mpg with no drama.
If I were to pick up a clean stock'r, that would be my plan.

Also, if you are really wanting a cam swap, I will once again quote Buddy Rawls (custom cam guru) who in this post was providing shelf cam suggestion for a basically stock 5.0...

Originally posted by buddy rawls
The cam is the 420-8 .533/.533(1.6), 270/270, 215/215, 110

Please do not get confused about this cam being an optimum camshaft for the bone stock 5.0's. IT is a good OTS (basically only I have found) for stock 5.0 with the typical 'first stage' upgrades that most everyone seems to do. That being a better filter and possibly intake manifold swap, and the exhaust upgrades with shorty headers (or Long tube) and the larger better flowing exhaust system) . this does not mean a bone stock short block, but a legitimate stock 5.0 long block, using a stock style 125cc head, and a static CR in the ballpark of 9:1, and typical 1 5/8 (or 1 1/2) headrs and 2 1/2 system.

This cam came about from the question of searching thru OTS offerings and choosing the best one. This cam has the delayed exhaust events resulting in the narrower LSA and alos the lower seat timing that will help maintain better opportunities for moving and capturing air. better filling and better cylinder pressure generates more torque and in the case of these valve evnts will be a very nice broad powerband. It will be somewhat rpm limited, so dont look for it do much more than the stock cam does. by 5700 rpm or so it is flat out done.

as far as P-V clearnace, if the set-up is factory stock and it was not a 'Friday' or 'Monday' motor, P-V clearance is a non issue. The typical normal build factory motor can permit upwards of 150 degrees at .200", sometimes as early as a 102 intake centerline. this cam on the intake will produce 131.

with regards to the [email protected] and general ramp rate, it could deal with more, but then that would not be an OTS camshaft. that was the criteria for selecting this cam. aLSo I did not look in every catalog ever printed.

If you apply this cam family in the comp catalog as being the best offering for the stock 5.0, that is incorrect (in my calcs). the 281/281 is too large for the 110LSA, it needs to be tighter. The 260/260 is really too small for the 110, it needs to be wider. So the cam is specifically the 270/270 version.

the cam does definitley need a valve spring upgrade. but as far as bolt-in capability, the stock bolt-ins cams I have done for people have basically gone in with no weird consequences. they have been in daily drivers and fishing trucks, etc. This was not the cam, but it this cam is sufficiently close. I have only been aware of 1 time this partiular cam was used and it performed as expected, but they were looking for a tad more rpm capability. however they had no arguments or worries in the 2500-5000 rpm range that it really shines in.

the counter argument is going to be: the cam has only been seen in use once by me. that is true!! however a cam (by brand and part number) is not the cam. The cam is the collection of valve events. The customs I have done are very similar, therfore the very simialr cam has been used a good number of times. the trends of the valve evnts are what makes it work. if the valve events do not really demonstrate the flow trensds of the engine, then it will not perform. Once the trends start falling inline, the gains start really showing up.

oh well that some info on the cam and background on its selection criteria

Buddy Rawls


Have fun with your new toy

 

[squeak93]

Just pull a vacuum line for sound.

But these guys are dead on. Not only do you have ALL that work to put the cam in (plus an investment in fluids, gaskets etc) but you still have to put springs on the stock iron heads to keep it from coil bind/valve float above 4k. Spend another 300 on a used set of gt40's and use the same required springs and have a nice runner. another 100 for an explorer intake and it becomes a blast to drive on the street.

Spend 1500 more on a used blower (plus say 500 more on supporting parts) and you'll be able to crack the block with a pulley change.


The E cam is ok if cheap or free, just a waste with stock supporting parts.

 

[Btrainfiveoh]

Thanks for all the responses guys! Yes, I've come to terms that doing just a cam change on an otherwise stocker will not really be beneficial.

I'm hunting for cheap gt40's but they're so hard to come across here, I might end up getting edelbrock e streets(not dead set)... Then it'll probably be intake heads and cam at that point. Just trying to keep it budget friendly mainly because of the amount I've already spent on the classic I have.

 

[mikestang63]

Thanks for all the responses guys! Yes, I've come to terms that doing just a cam change on an otherwise stocker will not really be beneficial.

I'm hunting for cheap gt40's but they're so hard to come across here, I might end up getting edelbrock e streets(not dead set)... Then it'll probably be intake heads and cam at that point. Just trying to keep it budget friendly mainly because of the amount I've already spent on the classic I have.

Dude, they are a dime a dozen on message boards and Ebay. There are about 5 explorers in my local LKQ. I wouldnt invest more than 3-400 in a set. Do NOT get E street heads. Save up and get a set of either TW or AFR heads. Do it right the first time.

 

[Btrainfiveoh]

S

Dude, they are a dime a dozen on message boards and Ebay. There are about 5 explorers in my local LKQ. I wouldnt invest more than 3-400 in a set. Do NOT get E street heads. Save up and get a set of either TW or AFR heads. Do it right the first time.

Hey man, I live in Canada, BC. Gt40's aren't a dime a dozen here lol. And if someone has them on ebay, after exchange to canadian and shipping, they're like 6-700 canadian. After everything done and some cleanup and spring change they'll run me almost 1000. And tfs or afr heads out here are about 1500-2000 canadian after taxes. And again, I'm trying to go for a budget build to have fun, not build a 11-12 second drag car.