Engine Quick Timing Question

[2011rustang5o]

Ok this is probably a simple one for most.

Got this car a while back. Fought some issues and listened to this forum. Did all the checks and NOTHING. So I started replacing parts that could be aged and not up to par.

Fast forward to this morning when I had the idea of the timing not being accurate. So I pulled the #1 plug and verified TDC, distributor rotor was at 12 o'clock and there and that when it gets goofy.

Car has a built motor with a pro street shiny harmonic balancer. Weeks ago when I was verifying the base 10 degree timing I couldn't read anything because the flash of the timing light so I put on a strip of free tape with a line at 10 degrees. And sure enough we were at 10 degrees.

Back to this morning I fire the car up to verify 10 degrees and it's there, pull the timing plug thing and timing is all over the place. So I verified TDC again and marked 0 on my tape. Pulled the tape up to verify if the markings on the balancer were correct... hell no.

So this is what I saw with the timing spout plug w/e pulled. I see 10 degrees on the LEFT SIDE of the 0 marking. That's 10 degrees of timing pulled right? I then adjusted timing to about 10 degrees to the right of the 0. Put the timing plug back in and check computer controlled timing and BAM it's steady as can be. Rev the car and no popping or craziness. Drives WAY smoother. Only thin I didn't do was check vacuum at idle but I will shortly. Only had 5-10 in-lbs originally bouncing all over the place. NO VACUUM LEAKS made damn sure of that days ago.

So to the right of 0 timing is advance correct? Sounds newbie but it never hurts to ask. Thanks guys.


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[General karthief]

I have issues remembering that too. I think that is correct, looking down at the balancer you should see the 0 to your left, passenger side of car. Correct me if I'm wrong, I usually consult my 'magic' book.
Thats why they have shift patterns engraved on the ball at the end of thaat stick that protrudes from that hump next to the drvers seat.

 

[jrichker]

From start to finish here's the answers...

Putting the distributor back in and setting the timing.

Revised 28-Jul-2013 to include warning about putting spark plug leads in a different location to attempt a to fix a distributor incorrectly installed.

You can forget about anything beyond this point if you don't have access to a timing light. You will never get the timing set right without one.


Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole, crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.

The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.

Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that there is no such thing as one tooth off on a 5.0 Mustang if you follow the spark plug wire order on the distributor cap. If it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range. Don't move the wires from the positions shown on the cap on fuel injected engines!!!! The #1 position cast into the cap MUST have the spark plug wire for #1 cylinder in it. Do it differently and the timing for the fuel injectors will be off. The computer uses the PIP sensor to time injector operation by sensing the wide slot in the PIP sensor shutter wheel. If the injector timing of #1 and the firing of #1 do not occur at the right time, the injector timing for all other cylinders will be affected.

Setting the timing:
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.

10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.

Note: setting the timing beyond the 10 degree mark will give you a little more low speed acceleration. BUT you will need to run 93 octane to avoid pinging and engine damage. Pinging is very hard to hear at full throttle, so it could be present and you would not hear it.

Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.

ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.

The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side to get 10 degrees.

To get 14 degrees, set it 7 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 7 marks towards the driver's side to get 14 degrees.

The paint marks you make are your friends if you do it correctly. They are much easier to see than the marks machined into the harmonic balancer hub.

At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug. Then start the engine.

Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.

Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.

The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

 

[2011rustang5o]

How the hell has this car been running 10 degrees retard. That's 20 degrees off!!

I got around 13in-lb vacuum now based off my mighty vac. Need a real vacuum gauge but it mush more consistent now. Tonight il mark the true 10-14 degree areas and get the timing spot on. I hate some of these aftermarket parts that have crappy markings on them.


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[General karthief]

I've seen ho motors with wrong firing orders and wrong harmonic balancers, flywheels the list goes on. Even one that was converted to a carb because the fuel pump was bad.
I like this place because they don't give crap advice or bash you for not knowing what to do. I even feel smarter by hang'n here!

 

[2011rustang5o]

Delete

 

[2011rustang5o]

Damn I added in 2 more degrees and it likes it!!!


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