Symptoms of a bad ground?

My car has somewhat of a start problem. I have read through the no-start checklist and plan on going through the step-by-step shortly but if someone could tell me what this sounds like (and confirm my thinking) it would help me sleep better until I can have at it.

My car is recently out of a 12+ year (indoor, unheated) storage and has a small starting problem. Just about every time I jump in and turn the key there is a click, like the starter solenoid engages but there isn't enough battery power to turn the engine. Sometimes this happens two or three times before the engine turns over and starts. When it does turn it seems to turn easily and has always started, but I know one of these days it will strand me.

When I was reviving the car from its slumber I couldn't get it to start after this same issue. A tech buddy of mine came in and got it running saying it was a bad ground. I have cleaned the battery terminals and removed an old aftermarket alarm. Does this sound like a weak ground or another issue?
 
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It could be a bad starter. If you turn the key to start it and when it clicks all the dash lights and all the power turn off in the car and you have to turn the key back off then on again it would be a bad ground. It sounds like a bad starter though cause usually you would have to play with the terminals or the chassis ground to get the car to start if it was a bad ground.
 
did he do a voltae drop test?? if so you are looking for 0.3 volts positive side and 0.1 volt negitive... make sure all of you connections are clean and tight.. positive and negitive battery cables, starter relay cables ground straps (battery to engine and engine to body). the best way to clean these connections is with baking soda and water. about 1-2 tables spoons per cup of water. scrub with a toothbrush or something of that nature. it is good routine maintainence anyways. sounds like a lot of work but it is worth it. trust me!

*** if the cables or ground straps are bad replace them!!**
 
I'd add that for diagnostics, when your car won't start like clockwork, I've used a spare jumper cable in parallel with existing cables. If the car magically starts, whatever cable you're paralleling is likely deficient. It can help shorten diagnostics time since cables can rot from the inside out, making it tough to find a bad one.


Good luck.
 
Thanks so far for the replies.

What makes a starter fail? Dirty brushes? Corrosion on the wire terminals? My car has sat for a while as I mentioned, but only has 16,500 miles.

MustangMike, I have NO idea what he did. I dropped off the keys and the car had a new, freshly charged battery and when I went by the storage space the car cranked right up. I have had the battery in and out a few times since then (January 07) and have noticed the on again/off again start problem.

Anthony85, when the click happens I have not noticed the lights going off. The dash lights go on and stay on. I turn the key to off, then to on again and within the second or third try the car jumps to life and runs fine afterwards.
 
I've been having the same issue with my mustang. But when the click happens, all the power is gone (no lights or gauges). I just replaced my negative battery cable and grinded the connecting place on the block to shiny metal. After that I would sometimes turn the key and get 4 or 5 quick clicks in a row.

My starter soleniod is new. My negative battery cable is new. My battery is new. I have a 3g alt with extra ground.

I think I'll just chance the cable going to the starter and see what happens. The cable looks to be the original so it might need to be changed after almost 20 years:shrug: .

Maybe your cables are just bad.
 
I had to move my car to get ready for the 6" of snow we are expecting for tomorrow and had a chance to watch for things some of you guys asked me about.

Open door and overhead light comes on, key in and key chime rings. Depress clutch, turn key to on and dash warning lights are on and fuel pump primes. Turn key to start, a dull "click" and nothing else changes. Dash lights still on. Turn key to off, then back to run. Fuel pump primes and car starts right up. Sometimes I have to repeat this latter part a couple of times but never more than 3.

Ok. The thing that interested me the most is that the dull click seems to be coming from behind the dash speaker on the driver's side and not from under the radio where I would expect the starter click to come from. There is never more than 1 dull click - so it doesn't sound like a dying battery where there are multiple rapid sharp clicks from where the starter is.

Does this ring any bells? Maybe its the solenoid? I haven't had a chance to go through the no-start checklist yet. I am a CPA and working 8:30AM until 10PM for the next week or so.
 
No Crank checklist for 5.0 Mustangs

Revised 24-Oct-2013 to update voltage drop figures.

No crank, slow crank and stuck starter solenoid problems have the same root causes – low battery voltage and poor connections. For that reason, they are grouped together.
Use the same initial group of tests to find the root cause of slow crank, no crank and stuck solenoid problems.

Since some of the tests will bypass the safety interlocks, make sure that the car is in neutral and the parking brake is set. Becoming a pancake isn’t part of the repair process…


1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery for low charge and dead cells. A good battery will measure 12-13 volts at full charge with the ignition switch in the Run position but without the engine running.
A voltmeter placed across the battery terminals should show a minimum of 9.5-10 volts when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position and the starter engages or tries to engage. Less than this will result in a clicking solenoid, or slow cranking (if it cranks at all) or a starter solenoid that sticks and welds the contacts together.

Most auto parts stores will check your battery for free. It does not have to be installed in the car to have it checked; you can carry it with you to the auto parts store.

The battery posts and inside of the battery post terminals should be scraped clean with a knife or battery post cleaner tool. This little trick will fix a surprising number of no start problems.

The clamp on with 2 bolts battery terminal ends are a known problem causer. Any place you see green on a copper wire is corrosion. Corrosion gets in the clamped joint and works its way up the wire under the insulation. Corroded connections do not conduct electricity well. Avoid them like the plague...

If the starter solenoid welds the contacts, then the starter will attempt to run anytime there is power in the battery. The cables and solenoid will get very hot, and may even start smoking. The temporary fix for a welded starter solenoid is to disconnect the battery and smack the back of the solenoid housing a sharp blow with a hammer. This may cause the contacts to unstick and work normally for a while.


A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection while trying to start the car: more than .25 volts across a connection indicates a problem. The voltage drop tests need to be done while cranking the engine. It's the current flowing through a connection or wire that causes the voltage drop.

See http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across connections and components. .

attachments\64167


Voltage drops should not exceed the following:
200 mV Wire or cable
300 mV Switch or solenoid
100 mV Ground
0.0V Connections
A voltage drop lower that spec is always acceptable.

2.) Check the battery to engine block ground down near the oil filter, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall. All grounds should be clean and shiny. Use some sandpaper to clean them up.

3.) Jump the big terminals on the starter solenoid next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

The rest of the tech note only concerns no crank problems. If your problem was a stuck solenoid, go back to step 1.

4.) Then pull the small push on connector (small red/blue wire) off the starter solenoid (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Then jump between the screw and the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it cranks, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

5.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.

Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
attachments\21328


6.) Pull the starter and take it to AutoZone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.


Starter solenoid wiring for 86-91 Mustang
attachments\52294



Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Mustang or earlier Mustang with upgraded high torque mini starter.
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attachments\53216


Electrical checks for the switches and starter solenoid

Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid. Use a screwdriver to bridge the connection from the battery positive connection on the starter solenoid to the small screw where the red/blue wire was connected. The starter should crank the engine. If it does not, the starter solenoid is defective or the battery lacks sufficient charge to crank the engine.

If the starter does crank the engine, the problem is in the clutch safety circuit (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) or ignition switch.


See the Typical start circuit diagram above for wiring information for troubleshooting.

You will need a voltmeter or test lamp for the rest of the checks. Connect one lead of the voltmeter or test lamp to ground. The other lead will connect to the item under test.
Look for 12 volts on the white/pink wire when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position. Check the ignition switch first.
No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

The next step will require you to push the clutch pedal to the floor (5 speed) or put the transmission in neutral (auto trans) while the ignition switch is turned to the Start position.
Good 12 volts, check the clutch safety switch (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) for good 12 volts on both sides of the switches. No 12 volts on both sides of the switch and the switches are defective or out of adjustment. Check the wiring for bad connections while you are at it.