Why pay the price when the cars are beat up?
- Thread starter stangonline
- Start date
-
Sponsors (?)
There are idiots everywhere, and I've steered clear of showroom cars with rubber boogers lingering on top of the inside rear wheel lip (an easy way to check, the dealer detail bozos never think to hose out the wheelhouses thoroughly...).
My point, simply stated, was that the picture that started the thread, with the 60 miles and average mileage of 10.9 mpg, really didn't necessarily or absolutely equate to being "beat to ****". And then the wild and baseless assumptions began to pour in.
As my grandfather used to say, some of you fellas are trying to pick the fly sh** out of the pepper... 60 miles does not automatically mean that:
1. Everybody who drove it couldn't drive a stick worth a damn...
2. Everybody who drove it made used the rev limiter as a shift light...
No, I don't want a car that's been overtly abused prior to sale any more than anyone else. I just thought that the premise of the post nurtured assumptions and baseless fantasies that were about as relevant as bench-racing...
My point, simply stated, was that the picture that started the thread, with the 60 miles and average mileage of 10.9 mpg, really didn't necessarily or absolutely equate to being "beat to ****". And then the wild and baseless assumptions began to pour in.
As my grandfather used to say, some of you fellas are trying to pick the fly sh** out of the pepper... 60 miles does not automatically mean that:
1. Everybody who drove it couldn't drive a stick worth a damn...
2. Everybody who drove it made used the rev limiter as a shift light...
No, I don't want a car that's been overtly abused prior to sale any more than anyone else. I just thought that the premise of the post nurtured assumptions and baseless fantasies that were about as relevant as bench-racing...
If it was a fusion or freestyle id agree with you. But your taking it to the most academic senses here. You really think that in 60 miles time that nobody beat on a gt500? i work at a dealer. i guarantee you one of the salespeople got ahold of the keys once and made her cry. I cant speak for every dealer but i can speak for mine. NOBODY in my sales department except one guy can drive a stick properly.This one guy happens to have a 85 foxhatch race car thats tubbed and caged and has a 351 stroked with a bds 6-71 blower out of the hood. 974 horsepower. hes the exception.RICKS said:There are idiots everywhere, and I've steered clear of showroom cars with rubber boogers lingering on top of the inside rear wheel lip (an easy way to check, the dealer detail bozos never think to hose out the wheelhouses thoroughly...).
My point, simply stated, was that the picture that started the thread, with the 60 miles and average mileage of 10.9 mpg, really didn't necessarily or absolutely equate to being "beat to ****". And then the wild and baseless assumptions began to pour in.
As my grandfather used to say, some of you fellas are trying to pick the fly sh** out of the pepper... 60 miles does not automatically mean that:
1. Everybody who drove it couldn't drive a stick worth a damn...
2. Everybody who drove it made used the rev limiter as a shift light...
No, I don't want a car that's been overtly abused prior to sale any more than anyone else. I just thought that the premise of the post nurtured assumptions and baseless fantasies that were about as relevant as bench-racing...
- Feb 22, 2003
- 318
- 0
- 16
Yep. Ricks - I agree with 310. When this kind of car gets some "extra attention" test drives at the dealer, you just have to assume it was rodded a bit. Now, I agree with you, they can probably take it just fine and might not make a hair of difference over it's lifespan - but it's the new owner who should get to decide how it's broken in. IMO, that's part of buying a new car, part of the fun of buying a new performance car - that's for sure.
I would like to think that most car enthusiasts feel this way about buying a new car. I don't think it's too much to ask from a dealer.
I would like to think that most car enthusiasts feel this way about buying a new car. I don't think it's too much to ask from a dealer.
- Feb 22, 2003
- 318
- 0
- 16
BTW, the only other thing you have to go on to determine if a new car has been beat on would be a written confession from the dealer that says "your new car was used for transportation to and from Big-Tims BBQ for a week during lunch hours...and we took the long way there.."
Well that's not going to happen, so what else can someone do?
Well that's not going to happen, so what else can someone do?
* It has 60 miles on it, and people get all worked-up...
* But conversely, if you go to a dealer interested in buying the GT500 they have on the showroom floor, and you ask for a simple test drive before plunking down a substantial amount of money, they say "NO", and.......... you get all worked-up...
How does any dealer win, when they're screwed in the public eye either way??
I've bought several SVT vehicles when they were "hot", and getting a test drive prior to signing the purchase agreement took a little negotiation.. We'd go out, and I'd drive the car, get a feel for how it ran, and maybe once or twice I'd run it through the gears up close to redline, to see how it really performed. Nothing hurt, harmed, or abused, period...
I'm also totally perplexed about this "driving a stick properly"... Of course, not everyone is Mario Andretti, but it doesn't take an "expert" to shift a flippin standard without grinding gears and smoking clutches... My mom can do it, my stepdaughter can do it, but everybody at every dealer, with the exception of the "race car drivers", go down the road in a haze of clutch smoke and a cacophony of sheered gear teeth?
I'm sorry, you guys are sensasionalizing... Yes, I'm certain there are instances where somebody really screws a car up due to gross incompetence.
But bottom line, if you're so touchy about it, you special order your own car. THEN, you have a reasonable expectation that you'll be the only one to take it out of the parking lot (that still doesn't mean it didn't get 4-wheel drifted through the staging at the factory, and the guy loading it on the truck didn't have some fun..).
But showroom cars, lot cars. They get test driven, they get shopped. That's life. And I don't buy the "but it's a Shelby" argument, because right now I can head down to the Porsche or Mercedes dealer, point at a drop-top sports car with a 6-figure window sticker, and in 10 minutes me and the sales guy would be rolling down the road, checking her out. Hell, at the high-end premium dealers, alot of times they just make a copy of your license and insurance, toss you the keys, and say "have a good drive, and take your time, get out where you can open her up..."
And then you go back to the Ford dealer, and a friggin Mustang with a factory blower is behind a velvet rope like a priceless sculpture??
* But conversely, if you go to a dealer interested in buying the GT500 they have on the showroom floor, and you ask for a simple test drive before plunking down a substantial amount of money, they say "NO", and.......... you get all worked-up...
How does any dealer win, when they're screwed in the public eye either way??
I've bought several SVT vehicles when they were "hot", and getting a test drive prior to signing the purchase agreement took a little negotiation.. We'd go out, and I'd drive the car, get a feel for how it ran, and maybe once or twice I'd run it through the gears up close to redline, to see how it really performed. Nothing hurt, harmed, or abused, period...
I'm also totally perplexed about this "driving a stick properly"... Of course, not everyone is Mario Andretti, but it doesn't take an "expert" to shift a flippin standard without grinding gears and smoking clutches... My mom can do it, my stepdaughter can do it, but everybody at every dealer, with the exception of the "race car drivers", go down the road in a haze of clutch smoke and a cacophony of sheered gear teeth?
I'm sorry, you guys are sensasionalizing... Yes, I'm certain there are instances where somebody really screws a car up due to gross incompetence.
But bottom line, if you're so touchy about it, you special order your own car. THEN, you have a reasonable expectation that you'll be the only one to take it out of the parking lot (that still doesn't mean it didn't get 4-wheel drifted through the staging at the factory, and the guy loading it on the truck didn't have some fun..).
But showroom cars, lot cars. They get test driven, they get shopped. That's life. And I don't buy the "but it's a Shelby" argument, because right now I can head down to the Porsche or Mercedes dealer, point at a drop-top sports car with a 6-figure window sticker, and in 10 minutes me and the sales guy would be rolling down the road, checking her out. Hell, at the high-end premium dealers, alot of times they just make a copy of your license and insurance, toss you the keys, and say "have a good drive, and take your time, get out where you can open her up..."
And then you go back to the Ford dealer, and a friggin Mustang with a factory blower is behind a velvet rope like a priceless sculpture??
- Feb 22, 2003
- 318
- 0
- 16
You have proven my point. They will not allow test drives in most cases, but then there are cars with suspiciously high miles on them.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I expect a new car to be new. I've previously asked for a test drive in a car that had some miles on it (that's called a demo) and then picked out an obviously undriven car to purchase. IMO, that's the way it should be and while your welcome to your opinion, I think you will be in the minority.
You go ahead and buy a 500hp car with extra miles on it. The next time "I" pay $45k+ for a Mustang, it's damn well going to be new.
Bottom line, different strokes for different folks.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I expect a new car to be new. I've previously asked for a test drive in a car that had some miles on it (that's called a demo) and then picked out an obviously undriven car to purchase. IMO, that's the way it should be and while your welcome to your opinion, I think you will be in the minority.
You go ahead and buy a 500hp car with extra miles on it. The next time "I" pay $45k+ for a Mustang, it's damn well going to be new.
Bottom line, different strokes for different folks.
1. I ordered mine, so I'm not expecting miles, but it could happen. See #2...
2. "New" is a relative term. How many feet does it roll until it's "used"? Do you realize that you could special order your car, and it show up with 50 miles on it, simply by virtue of being randomly chosen for testing, a standard practice the manufacturer does as a part of quality-control? They put a sticker in the window that says "This new Ford vehicle was randomly selected for road testing. It now has XX miles on the odometer as a result of this testing. We hope you enjoy blah blah....". What do you do then, refuse the car, and get back in line to order another, and cross your fingers that it doesn't get randomly pulled?
3. Dealers don't use demos much anymore, not from my experiences in the recent past. You walk on the lot, say "I'm interested in that one", and they go pull the keys and slap on the magnetic plate.
You're not getting my point at all. I'm not saying that it's not a GOOD THING to get your car with just factory miles on it. I'm saying that it's not necessarily the END OF THE WORLD if it doesn't, and that if you're so impatient that you're looking to buy a car straight off the showroom floor rather than special-order it, that you should REASONABLY expect that many of the showroom-floor cars may have been test driven some..
After all, if you go in to buy a Shelby, want to actually DRIVE the sucker prior to committing to it, and upon driving, decide it's a nose-heavy weak-running pig, are you going to buy it? Is the car now "not new", and by simple virtue of you having backed out on the deal, is the dealer now STUCK with a USED car? How do you suggest dealers handle this? I hear your rant, but I don't hear your solution! At the time you buy your new GT500, are you going to sign all the papers first, and THEN drive the car? And if you hate, you'll keep it on principle, because it wouldn't be right to stick the dealer with a now "used" car, when they did nothing wrong??
I don't mean to turn this into a ridiculous and unending debate. We can agree to disagree, I just don't know what we're disagreeing on. I'm perplexed. Your desires/standards paint the dealers into an impossible scenario.
And when it comes to being a perfectionist, I'm on the pshychotic end of that scale...
2. "New" is a relative term. How many feet does it roll until it's "used"? Do you realize that you could special order your car, and it show up with 50 miles on it, simply by virtue of being randomly chosen for testing, a standard practice the manufacturer does as a part of quality-control? They put a sticker in the window that says "This new Ford vehicle was randomly selected for road testing. It now has XX miles on the odometer as a result of this testing. We hope you enjoy blah blah....". What do you do then, refuse the car, and get back in line to order another, and cross your fingers that it doesn't get randomly pulled?
3. Dealers don't use demos much anymore, not from my experiences in the recent past. You walk on the lot, say "I'm interested in that one", and they go pull the keys and slap on the magnetic plate.
You're not getting my point at all. I'm not saying that it's not a GOOD THING to get your car with just factory miles on it. I'm saying that it's not necessarily the END OF THE WORLD if it doesn't, and that if you're so impatient that you're looking to buy a car straight off the showroom floor rather than special-order it, that you should REASONABLY expect that many of the showroom-floor cars may have been test driven some..
After all, if you go in to buy a Shelby, want to actually DRIVE the sucker prior to committing to it, and upon driving, decide it's a nose-heavy weak-running pig, are you going to buy it? Is the car now "not new", and by simple virtue of you having backed out on the deal, is the dealer now STUCK with a USED car? How do you suggest dealers handle this? I hear your rant, but I don't hear your solution! At the time you buy your new GT500, are you going to sign all the papers first, and THEN drive the car? And if you hate, you'll keep it on principle, because it wouldn't be right to stick the dealer with a now "used" car, when they did nothing wrong??
I don't mean to turn this into a ridiculous and unending debate. We can agree to disagree, I just don't know what we're disagreeing on. I'm perplexed. Your desires/standards paint the dealers into an impossible scenario.
And when it comes to being a perfectionist, I'm on the pshychotic end of that scale...
- Feb 22, 2003
- 318
- 0
- 16
Yes, I would REASONABLY expect that the car might have been test driven..but I would have a good idea of how it was driven.
Regardless - I get your point, you aren't as anal as many others - no big deal.
Take care
Regardless - I get your point, you aren't as anal as many others - no big deal.
Take care
I'm not as anal?? You're talking to a guy who provides his dealer with a punch-list of firm instructions regarding how the car must be delivered, so that no dealer prep is done, no license plate brackets installed, no emblems applied, etc... I don't even want the dealer flunkies to try and WASH the car before I take it.
I don't see our differences relating to standards so much as relating to being reasonable and investigating further than just twisting the key to "on" and staring at the mileage.
I'm not talking about the car that some sales manager numbnutz does rev-limiter-tapping donuts in... I'm talking about starting a thread with a picture of a gauge cluster, and then concluding that the car is subsequently "beat up".
There's just not alot that can happen in 60 miles that is really worth discussing, unless overt and intentional destruction takes place, which you can detect if you look.... but the odometer won't tell you that, you're looking in the wrong place, and I'm sure you realize that. The difference between a 60 mile car and a 6 mile car is more emotional than physical. The real reason I punch-list my requirements when purchasing a new car, is that dealers are so prone to doing stupid things like scratching paint, swirl-marking paint, armor-alling the interior (which changes the factory patina), drilling holes, tossing away documents that you want to file and preserve, etc... But I have bought new collectible cars "off the lot" before (usually toward the END of a product's lifespan, when you can find them languishing for really really good deals, as the dealer wants them off the floorplan), and there has been a small amount of "un-doing" to do to get the car brought into my standard of detail and newness. But it usually just takes an afternoon, and it's kinda fun work anyhow, especially if you drink beer while you work...
I don't really think we're that different, I just think there's some over-reacting to the miles. Preferably, yes, you want it virgin, who wouldn't. But if the right car is sitting in front of you for the right deal, do the due diligence and look over the car. Don't just look at the odometer and proclaim "it's beat up".
That was my only point, the premise of the thread was highly presumptuous, and hence, a bit silly.
I don't see our differences relating to standards so much as relating to being reasonable and investigating further than just twisting the key to "on" and staring at the mileage.
I'm not talking about the car that some sales manager numbnutz does rev-limiter-tapping donuts in... I'm talking about starting a thread with a picture of a gauge cluster, and then concluding that the car is subsequently "beat up".
There's just not alot that can happen in 60 miles that is really worth discussing, unless overt and intentional destruction takes place, which you can detect if you look.... but the odometer won't tell you that, you're looking in the wrong place, and I'm sure you realize that. The difference between a 60 mile car and a 6 mile car is more emotional than physical. The real reason I punch-list my requirements when purchasing a new car, is that dealers are so prone to doing stupid things like scratching paint, swirl-marking paint, armor-alling the interior (which changes the factory patina), drilling holes, tossing away documents that you want to file and preserve, etc... But I have bought new collectible cars "off the lot" before (usually toward the END of a product's lifespan, when you can find them languishing for really really good deals, as the dealer wants them off the floorplan), and there has been a small amount of "un-doing" to do to get the car brought into my standard of detail and newness. But it usually just takes an afternoon, and it's kinda fun work anyhow, especially if you drink beer while you work...
I don't really think we're that different, I just think there's some over-reacting to the miles. Preferably, yes, you want it virgin, who wouldn't. But if the right car is sitting in front of you for the right deal, do the due diligence and look over the car. Don't just look at the odometer and proclaim "it's beat up".
That was my only point, the premise of the thread was highly presumptuous, and hence, a bit silly.
- Feb 22, 2003
- 318
- 0
- 16
Jesus man. Fine - so, if your ordered car comes in with 60 miles on it WITHOUT the factory notice, you're going to be OK with that? Hey, that's your business..
For me, when I see 60 miles on a $50k Mustang, I'm simply going to pass. Like I said, "I" prefer to KNOW how the car was broken in. Sure there are people who are just going to buy it, that's fine.
I maintain that MY OPINION is that someone buying a new car should be the one who dictates how it is treated in those early miles. That is MY opinion...MY preference. If you want to go on typing another novel on how MY OPINION is wrong, have at it.
It is also my EDUCATED OPINION that when you see 60miles+ on a 07 SHelby at the dealer - the chances are that those were not "gentle" miles. Whether that causes any long-term reliability/power issues is purely academic. If you say otherwise, remind me never to take you to Vegas.
For me, when I see 60 miles on a $50k Mustang, I'm simply going to pass. Like I said, "I" prefer to KNOW how the car was broken in. Sure there are people who are just going to buy it, that's fine.
I maintain that MY OPINION is that someone buying a new car should be the one who dictates how it is treated in those early miles. That is MY opinion...MY preference. If you want to go on typing another novel on how MY OPINION is wrong, have at it.
It is also my EDUCATED OPINION that when you see 60miles+ on a 07 SHelby at the dealer - the chances are that those were not "gentle" miles. Whether that causes any long-term reliability/power issues is purely academic. If you say otherwise, remind me never to take you to Vegas.
stangonline said:
No, I never said that. Quite the opposite in-fact. I clearly drew a line between reasonable expectations of a personal-spec-ordered car, and a dealer-spec-sitting-on-the-lot-for-sale car. Clearly...
Am I typing in english?
Oh well.... This thread is cooked anyhow. I don't mind being disagreed with, but it bugs me being misrepresented.
Truce.
- Feb 22, 2003
- 318
- 0
- 16
One last thing that maybe we can agree on.
I agree that the chances are better that a car would have been test driven if it was not special ordered. Knowing the type of car we are talking about - as an enthusiast that knows what he wants (a car with the fewest possible miles), I simply stated that I would pass on ones with those "extra" miles. Whether that's reasonable or not, I dont know - but that's the way I feel about it.
Take care
I agree that the chances are better that a car would have been test driven if it was not special ordered. Knowing the type of car we are talking about - as an enthusiast that knows what he wants (a car with the fewest possible miles), I simply stated that I would pass on ones with those "extra" miles. Whether that's reasonable or not, I dont know - but that's the way I feel about it.
Take care
Similar threads
