Progress Thread In The Beginning, God said, Let there Be LUCIEL!

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@Keionte If you use the site's search feature and look up the username Alcino, you'll find that he was able to take a Mustang II to 1G using the SRA. Granted, that's a bit of an apple to oranges comparison to a Fox car, but it can be done. In his case he continued to use a leaf spring set up but went with fiberglass springs iirc. I honestly don't remember much about his complete setup anymore except the fact he used fiberglass leaf springs, but if he could make a II handle with little to no aftermarket support for auto cross - and perform as well as he does - you should be able to do the same with a Fox which HAS the aftermarket support. So what Mike is saying makes sense. Alcino is a member of the pro touring forums, here is a link to one of his old posts. I don't know if any of the links that are supplied are still active or not.


And a pic of his car for reference. It was in an issue of PHR in April 2006 if anyone recognizes it.

cino-Azevedo-Mustang-II-CAM-T-Champion-action-shot.jpg
That car still has LEAF SPRINGS in the rear and beats on six-figure sports cars all day. Granted, they're aftermarket fiberglass springs, but...
 
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I have a 1993 mustang coupe, with IRS from 2003 cobra and 315 tires on 18x 11 wheels. I did have to cut the fenders and put on plastic flares. I built this car to have fun at the autocross in the CAM class. The white fiberglass hood is now sprayed hot rod black.

Sigh...just because you put a band aid on the cut, doesn’t change the fact that it should’ve had stitches.
 
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It means, just because you have those size tires on your car, the flares that belong on a totally different vehicle that you've riveted on ( the band aid), doesnt give up the fact that it doesn't look right. The " stitches" ( always the right way to hold a deep cut closed) is the work required to fix it properly using the right flares, put on the right way.
 
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Oh Angelo from Alabama, you are so judgemental. I am not building a show car or a daily driver. It is an autocross car and all the work is in suspension. chassis and engine. I will get around to making it look nice, right now I am working on making it handle nice. I think you need a hug.
 
Oh Angelo from Alabama, you are so judgemental. I am not building a show car or a daily driver. It is an autocross car and all the work is in suspension. chassis and engine. I will get around to making it look nice, right now I am working on making it handle nice. I think you need a hug.

But.....If you didn’t build it for show,...why are you showing it now?:shrug:
Look, it is what it is. Back in the 70’s before there were a lot of guys narrowing a rear end, it wasn’t uncommon to see one of two things.
Either some hack had taken a jig-saw to the rear wheel arch, or some other guy had slathered enough fiberglass onto the quarter so he could make himself a set of bonafide fender flares, so their N50-15’s on Keystone klassics would fit.
Both solutions looked like ass.
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yeah buddy.....
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And this sweetie......Not even with a set of fender flares bondo’d on can make your eyes stop hurting from this mess.
* I’m sure this guy built this car for drag racing on wet pavement. He don’t care what I think either.
And for every 100 examples of :doh:
There’s always somebody who shows us the right way to do it..
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Ahhhhhh....much better.
And if you just have to rivet a set of flares on a fox body....theres are plenty of examples of the right way to do it.
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or.....
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You offered your pic as a testimonial as to how you made a “too big” tire fit the car. Just because somebody makes it work, don’t make it right.
 
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I showed it to the gentleman that wanted to put 315 on his car as an example of what it took for me to get them under the car. Angelo, why are you trying to find fault with other peoples builds? Nobody asked you to judge my temporary fender flares. I enjoy autocrossing my car and not sit at home until it is to your standards. By the way, autocross is not a car show where we are judged on what it looks like. What you do not see is all the work that has been done under the car to make it perform at a high level. It must make you feel good to find fault with what other people do Mr CarMichael Angelo. I think you really need a hug for some positive human contact. I love seeing all the different builds and mods that people on here do. Not all of them are my taste, but everyone is different. We are all car and mustang guys. Peace, love and tranquility brother!
 
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Fyi - I have been talking with Duncan Performance for the last 5 weeks about these, which they modify to use with the 1 3/4 forward offset control arms and k member. When they have them ready for my application I will purchase and install them next winter. The standard flare kit shown is Maier racing product.
 

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Maximimum motorsports rear grip package with HD lowers, panhard bar and torque arm is $1100.
An IRS alone costs almost as much as that and out of the box other than ride quality, it's inferior in every way.

I take no issue with IRS swaps (I personally don't like limited wheel choice).
But for many users it really needs to be heavily upgraded.
MM upgrade kit's range from $600 to $1200 and level 5 half shafts are $1600.
 
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@Keionte - I finally watched your videos the other day, they were fun! It's fun to see someone who's excited and getting their hands dirty trying to learn. One thing about it all is that there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat. Whether it's a solid axle set up or an IRS, both have been proven to work well and both have their pros and cons. It's up to you to decide which way you want to take it. My personal opinions don't mean squat if that's not what you want to do so I'll refrain from that, but I believe you said you already have an IRS purchased, correct? Now is the time to commit to which way you want to go - before any installation work begins. I don't know what that setup is going for, but I'd imagine that if you were to sell it, it would put a big chunk of money toward improvements to the suspension setup you already have. Things like a Panhard bar, new lower control arms, etc etc. Like Mike said earlier before everything seems to have gotten derailed again, you'll want to build the car for what you'll be doing with it the majority of the time. Is it going to be a street car or a dedicated racer? How much money do you have that you'll want to sink into it? Those are all questions that you'll need to have some kind of ball park answer to for yourself. Obviously things can snowball pretty quickly - ask Mike about how that happens! ;) I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you about some of the things he's done over the years that had to be redone or rethought because something didn't work the way he wanted or he changed his mind about something. It all adds up - your time, parts lists, money, downtime, etc. I guess what I'm trying to say is be realistic with your goals and plan accordingly.
 
Maximimum motorsports rear grip package with HD lowers, panhard bar and torque arm is $1100.
An IRS alone costs almost as much as that and out of the box other than ride quality, it's inferior in every way.

I take no issue with IRS swaps (I personally don't like limited wheel choice).
But for many users it really needs to be heavily upgraded.
MM upgrade kit's range from $600 to $1200 and level 5 half shafts are $1600.
I somewhat agree ( obviously, I take issue with the swap). For those that claim improved ride quality, I‘m always thinking “Compared to what?
An overly stiff 1.5” lowering spring , poly bushed SRA with/without any SF connectors?
Both fox cars that I’ve had run softer springs, and true coil overs set on a softer setting. ( again,...because....street car) c/o springs are cheap, if I ever wanted to stiffen the ride for any reason, it’s simple to change them. The shock is just a matter of a rotary dial to stiffen the rebound and another for the extension. Bottom line,.daily driveable on mon-fri, auto-crossable on Saturday. On the red car I had new stock rubber bushings, installed in reinforced stock control arms with the same ladder style SF connectors that are on the monster. I’d challenge anybody to Demonstrate how much better the ride would be versus a car with irs. On the monster I am using a UPR control arm pkg and the lack of articulation because of bushing stiffness is more noticeable, but straight line ride quality is pretty much the same.
The rest of the stuff required to get the rear properly reinforced from unwanted movement/ wheel hop, and the cost of those half shafts are always conveniently glossed over when considering the thing,

The one thing that makes these cars so attractive is the diversity of wheel choice, and how relatively easy it is to get them to accept big rubber. The irs swap severely limits that flexibiliary.

Ill take big ass tires for 1000 Alex.
 
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That looks like a total project. It could turn into something like this:

MST_04_RK0004_02_P.jpg


I remember seeing these and Camaros litter the parking lot in high school. I always thought they looked dumb, especially given the fact that the 305-350 was always underpowered to warrant wheels and tires that were even CLOSE to being this wide. It was always cartoonish to me.

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And WTF is this supposed to be?!?!?!

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That's 1000 times worse than riveted wheel flares tbh.....
 
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Driving around baltimore city I noticed a huge improvement with IRS. I've rode in and driven hundreds of mustangs, from clapped out beaters to 7 second track cars. The autocross foxes I've driven with PHB still get the rear wiggle when the road surface is uneven or you hit mild potholes and imperfections. Some cars with performance bushings in the IRS feel almost as bad.

I have thought about removing the IRS and tubbing my fox. I haven't lived in the city in 11 years...I no longer street race, and I love the look of deep wheels on the back of a notch back.

One day people will be looking for the factory cobra IRS to restore their cobras back to near stock. They will regret the choice to go SRA. Maybe I'll get 5k for it when milk is 10 bucks a gallon.
 
Maximimum motorsports rear grip package with HD lowers, panhard bar and torque arm is $1100.
An IRS alone costs almost as much as that and out of the box other than ride quality, it's inferior in every way.

I take no issue with IRS swaps (I personally don't like limited wheel choice).
But for many users it really needs to be heavily upgraded.
MM upgrade kit's range from $600 to $1200 and level 5 half shafts are $1600.

I bought my IRS complete for $500, but that was years ago. At the time, my SRA needed a full internal rebuild plus better axles as it was making all kinds of noise, wrong gears, etc. and then after that it would need all the MM parts to make it handle right.

My total cost, including all the bushings, for the IRS, was under $1000. The coil overs were additional but I would have done that either way. Unless you're trying to launch hard or drag race, level 5 half shafts aren't necessary. I've got an 04 unit with 31 spline shafts that are just fine for the NA 302 I have, and I have no intention to drag race my car.

As for handling differences, read this.
 
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One day people will be looking for the factory cobra IRS to restore their cobras back to near stock. They will regret the choice to go SRA. Maybe I'll get 5k for it when milk is 10 bucks a gallon.
People will have many regrets on what they have done to 03/04 cobras. Many of them went mod nuts on those cars.
An SRA swap is just one of them...

I can't truly vouch for IRS ride quality, while I was in stock suspension cobras I thought rode better, one would think you would have to drive both cars back to back to really know the difference. Then you start mixing and matching aftermarket parts and I'm not sure any comparison is apples to apples.

I do know this, since I swapped my rear springs to a soft set of h&r's, my car rides drastically better and the phb adds a level a predictably I hadn't felt before. I'll finish it off with a torque arm this summer.

I do know guys that use sticky tires on the street (honestly how can you drive 500rwhp without them?) and broke axles. Wheel hop can destroy anything.
 
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@Keionte - I finally watched your videos the other day, they were fun! It's fun to see someone who's excited and getting their hands dirty trying to learn. One thing about it all is that there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat. Whether it's a solid axle set up or an IRS, both have been proven to work well and both have their pros and cons. It's up to you to decide which way you want to take it. My personal opinions don't mean squat if that's not what you want to do so I'll refrain from that, but I believe you said you already have an IRS purchased, correct? Now is the time to commit to which way you want to go - before any installation work begins. I don't know what that setup is going for, but I'd imagine that if you were to sell it, it would put a big chunk of money toward improvements to the suspension setup you already have. Things like a Panhard bar, new lower control arms, etc etc. Like Mike said earlier before everything seems to have gotten derailed again, you'll want to build the car for what you'll be doing with it the majority of the time. Is it going to be a street car or a dedicated racer? How much money do you have that you'll want to sink into it? Those are all questions that you'll need to have some kind of ball park answer to for yourself. Obviously things can snowball pretty quickly - ask Mike about how that happens! ;) I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you about some of the things he's done over the years that had to be redone or rethought because something didn't work the way he wanted or he changed his mind about something. It all adds up - your time, parts lists, money, downtime, etc. I guess what I'm trying to say is be realistic with your goals and plan accordingly.


First, let me answer your questions:

Yes, I already have the IRS purchased, however, I have not taken possession of it yet. I am very conservative due to the virus. I do plan on continuing with the IRS swap.

This will primarily be a streetcar which is one of the major deciding points of the IRS swap (for Me). Now, I know there are so many bolt-ons that I can do to improve my current setup. I can go with 355/ 373 gears and beef up the front as well as the rear to make the hop damn near none existent, but, everywhere I turn, I hear that IRS is just better for what I want to do with the car. I need to sit and tally up the cost/labor of both setups to see if there is any huge difference. I will say this... if I can't score a place to put in the IRS myself, there will be NO contest... Paying someone (even if it is $750) will blow the IRS out of the water.

As for the amount of money??? I don't think I'll ever be able to answer that question. I don't look at this as a (Let's get there as cheap as possible) thing. Sure, I want to be wise about it, but at the same time, I want what I want. If you need a face number, however, $20k over the course of 2 years wouldn't make me flinch.

Now, on to what I want to say.

This is a project I took on for the 18-year-old me. He's never gotten to play or to be wild. It's been "Play it safe" My whole life just to find... there is no such thing as safe!

At the risk of spilling too much info about my life; Every single person I have ever busted my ass for didn't seem to think about me when they wanted to do or to have something. I was always the one to order the salad and pay steak prices.

So, b4 I get too old to enjoy my life I want to let the 18-year-old me have a little fun.

Call it Mid Life Crisis if you want. It could very well be that, but I think it's just me realizing it will never be my turn unless I take it.

Sound silly... Hell, even corny.

But, Who Gives a F**K?!
 
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