Where would i find the fuel pump and new injectors, What kind of tuner would let you switch back and forth between E85 and E10? I have no experience with tuners...
Right on the money there.
I'm originally from South Dakota where we have used an ethanol blend for years. There is a bit of controversy as to reliability and all that. I can tell you from experience that there are more problems with ethanol than pure gasoline during periods of extreme cold. In addition, many believe that ethanol is the culprit behind mysterious corrosion and damage to heads and valvetrain.
Regardless of the above theories, it is a fact that ethanol has less energy per gallon than gasoline. I give a damn about octane; octane is not power. Just be aware of that misconception.
So to answer the question, normally there are little to no noticeable side-effects of using a 10% blend.
To expand on that….E85 turns into E70 in the colder states due to cold start issues caused by the low evaporation rate of ethanol.
The only reason I can see for switching to E85 is for those running extremely high compressions or those running some type of forced induction that cannot otherwise sustain a safe tune without resorting to higher octane fuel. For everyone else, it's just not worth it. You are going to loose 30% fuel economy by switching to E85 (negating any monetary savings over gasoline) and your going to loose HP (unless you fit one of the previously mentioned conditions).
As far as the 10% added to gasoline goes….as previously mentioned, they have been doing it here in Michigan for years with nearly no ill effects. Fuel economy will suffer in the slightest degree….but beyond that, it should not impact the vehicle in any way.
Just to add to something you said. Using E85 in a regular vehicle with a proper tune will not cause a loss in power. On the contrary, with a proper tune for E85 you see more power even in a normal engine. Hence GM, Chrylser, Ford, and Nissan show horsepower and torque rating for Gasoline and E85, And E85 shows higher HP and Torque ratings then on Gasoline.
Actually…not quite. The problem with E85 is that it provides 30% less energy than gasoline. As such, you need a means to be able to make up for the power losses associated with running a less combustible fuel. While throwing timing at it does help to a certain extent, you need to raise your compression in order to notice any gains associated with running e85. While I can not confirm your claim that the big OEM's show torque/hp increases while running e85 fuels (I'd like to see data that supports this), there is a valid explanation for such. If you look at today's vehicles in general, compression ratios are significantly up compared to a decade ago. Computers now will retard timing based on the types of fuel you use (some use a knock sensor)…and even switching between 87 and 93 octane gasoline can quite often lead to a change in engine performance. Because of this, I could see a slight performance difference in higher compression OEM setups running e85.
With that said, most other vehicles will not see a power gain…and retrofitting on a vehicle designed to run on 87 octane fuel will do nothing but diminish h/p and torque. You can throw as much timing as you'd like at it…but in the end, you need to raise your compression ratio (either internally in the engine or via. forced induction) to be able to benefit from using E85.
Oh and figures since your making your argument on new cars use high comp. here the info on the 07 durango FFV
Notice the compression ratio not muh higher than ours.
Actually, that proves my point just that much more. While that particular expample has a lower compression than much of the competition...you'll notice no difference in hp and torque. They are most likely thowing gobbs of timing at that combo just to get back to stock h/p and torque levels while running e85. The computer system likely far more advanced...and there is far more engineering put into getting stock h/p levels out of that lower compression (relatively speaking) setup.
A few months ago on MSN news or CNN they had an article about both Ford and GM confirming they are making more power with E85 than regular fuel in back to back tests on the same car tuned for power and mpg using regular gas and E85. IIRC one was like 20-30hp more. Of course this does bring the point that its the volume of E85 to get that number as more power means more fuel. The article went on to lightly discuse the use of more aggressive timing but that they found a sweet spot that also did not hurt the mpg of E85 coming in less than the 30% as they used less aggressive tables for the non-performance areas of the tune to get something around high teens to low 20's in extra fuel needed. They found the added benifit of a cooling effect as the alch. content cooled off the intake charge adding more power as well.
You also can increase the comp by filling the space with more fluid...again finding the sweet spot of extra fluid, timing, and compression for an effective E85 setup.
I’m not sure what any of that proves. I’d venture to say that those hp increases once again can be directly connected to higher static compression ratios, modern head & valve designs with variable valve timing…as well as modern computer control. I’m not arguing that it can’t be done….but to think that retrofitting a e85 setup on a mustang is going to yield any performance benefits (again, assuming stock compression ratios) is beyond pushing it. For a vast majority of stangers out there…the only result in swapping over to e85 will be decreased fuel economy, the possibility of decreased horsepower, the need for separate summer/winter tunes (e85 in the northern states becomes e70 for cold start issues) and higher milk, cheese and beef prices.
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