Build Thread 1978 Fairmont: He said he sounds like a broken record,…What’s that mean daddy?

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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So you build something to be unique and found no where else, but are surprised when it doesn’t fit in anywhere?

Cars N Coffee seems like a solid event for the Monster. Surely there is a parking spot between the Mustangs and Supras.
i said it got better at the redneck bonanza...The “ cars and coffee” thing isn’t this car...I fit in better with the “street machine” resto mod guys....guys that take the old sht and make it better. Which in hindsight is Better than the street rod guys, the rat rod guys, the doo wop guys, the ricers, the euro thrashers, and their upper crust mega exotic buddies, and the late model everything else .
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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Spec called. The clutch is ready for pick up.
The trans is complete. I have a flywheel, a hyd t/o bearing , its been modified to fit the 2jz, there is a shifter mounted that works, and I just got the slip yoke to allow for a standard u-joint match up to a driveshaft. I even have the 3.31 gear set to make this sht work. Everything else is gonna require that I “just do it” in order to determine the hydraulic master cylinder/ clutch pedal/shifter location/drive shaft length. That process is bound to be a month of down time..,
Question is:....Do I want to take the car out of commission again, or wait till winter.
 
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LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air
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My vote, FWIW, is to wait until winter. That one month estimate will inevitably turn into 3. Better to have it down while you really aren't doing much vs having it down when you want to go do stuff with it. :shrug: Besides, that'll give you plenty of time to rethink everything! ;)
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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I have been thinking. Much longer than most here know. A 6 speed has always been a “ potential “ upgrade if you could call it that, just about as soon as I started putting my foot in the throttle on this 2jz upgrade and starting feeling lag.
It’s gonna be weird to alot here, but there are those guys that for whatever freakin reason have to have several project cars that all need work. and they spread out their time and resources between those projects, and never have any one of them done nicely. Constantly working on something.
Then there’s me:
As opposed to having several project cars, I have one car that constantly has several projects going on instead. When one is done, then another gets un-done,and re-done. After thinking about it, I think this is why I have this thing. I’ve said it before, The day that I get tired of doing/un-doing/re-doing will be For sale day.

Taking that car out of commission to change something makes owning it relevant. Having it sit in the basement so that I can drive it an hour every other week makes owning it irrelevant.

that said,

I think I’ll take it apart tomorrow.
 
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LILCBRA

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I think I’ll take it apart tomorrow.

:ohoh: Show of hands - who's surprised?


My vote comes from being of the other camp. I have 3 project cars, all of them on the back burner currently. I'd kill to have one actually "done" - even though we all know there's really no such thing. But there are PLENTY of times I wish one was so I could participate in this event or that. But I also know that push to do something like this - it's a bit overwhelming, kinda like crack for a junkie. So get on it, get it finished in a month (or 3....) and let's see/hear it! :rock:
 

Potomus Pete

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Hey that's his love. Wish I had the ambition to get at my transmission. My rear main seal is screwing my ride up. Mike would just do it. Sometimes that's what it's about. Six speed on an older car with his power would be crazy. Ripping down the road just shifting away.
 
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droopie85gt

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Spec called. The clutch is ready for pick up.
The trans is complete. I have a flywheel, a hyd t/o bearing , its been modified to fit the 2jz, there is a shifter mounted that works, and I just got the slip yoke to allow for a standard u-joint match up to a driveshaft. I even have the 3.31 gear set to make this sht work. Everything else is gonna require that I “just do it” in order to determine the hydraulic master cylinder/ clutch pedal/shifter location/drive shaft length. That process is bound to be a month of down time..,
Question is:....Do I want to take the car out of commission again, or wait till winter.
Before I go to the next page, I'll say you would tell anyone else to wait til winter. Everyone else here that's a regular will say wait til winter. And you're going to post a picture in the next post of it up on Jack stands with the 4alady on the floor.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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Before I go to the next page, I'll say you would tell anyone else to wait til winter. Everyone else here that's a regular will say wait til winter. And you're going to post a picture in the next post of it up on Jack stands with the 4alady on the floor.
Yeah well, almost everyone here that’s a regular told you to keep the Fox, don’t waste your time with a sorry assed Lima 4 banger, and to not waste your money on that mega-project Pbf when your goal was to build a bracket car.

look where you ended up.

just think where you’d be now progress-wise had you not had to rebuild what had turned to ferrous oxide
 

droopie85gt

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Yeah well, almost everyone here that’s a regular told you to keep the Fox, don’t waste your time with a sorry assed Lima 4 banger, and to not waste your money on that mega-project Pbf when your goal was to build a bracket car.

look where you ended up.

just think where you’d be now progress-wise had you not had to rebuild what had turned to ferrous oxide
Probably about the same place...I was the last 8 years. Stuck with a car I no longer wanted or wanted to work on...as opposed to a car I keep getting to a perfectly running state and keep tearing it apart and changing things.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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Before I go to the next page, I'll say you would tell anyone else to wait til winter. Everyone else here that's a regular will say wait til winter. And you're going to post a picture in the next post of it up on Jack stands with the 4alady on the floor.
And furthermore....

Who else would I tell to wait till winter? Who else here would rather build than drive?

Pics to follow
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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While professing to be a know it all on a different thread, i come across an interesting tid bit.

Even though the old engine didn’t make the power that this one does, the old engine showed way more “ off idle“ torque. There wasn’t really any lag. I’m sure that the fact that it was over 50 cubic inches bigger, and had almost a 4” stroke as compared to the 3.4” the 2jz has might have a lot to do with that..
But...the old combo had the 4r70w’s 2.84 first gear..The 2jz never had that trans ( working) behind it. A 4l80e has a 2.48 first gear, and a fair amount of added internal rotating mass when comparing it to a 4r70 ( think C6 vs C4).
Im thinking that my justification for the manual swap is not only motivated by me wanting something to change out, but that there will be a significant power increase as a result.
 
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xecute

Eaten, greased and played with my balls
The real basis for your swap might be this.

Figures like a 50 % or 1.5 factor loss for automatics based on the Turbo Hydramatic 3 speeds, but only 25% or approx 1.25 loss factor for a manual gearbox are common debits for flywheel DIN net hp to Rear wheel horsepower. As a passion killer for a road car, nought better than any kind GM Turbo Hydramatic, 3, 4 speed and its sucessor.

I'm lucky enough to have driven a 4 speed manual 5.3 V12 Jag. Great car, epic performance, but the old XK-E based Moss based gearbox was a heinous Sword in the Stone act of pot stiring when gearchanging, not a smooth sublime act compared to a Borg Warner 12 or THM 400 under kickdown. The original XJ-S V12 cars were fitted with either a manual or automatic transmission, but the manual and its optional in six cylinder Laycock overdrive 6 speed was soon dropped because it was a leftover from the XK-E and XJ sedan. The Rover 3.5 liter V8 and TR7 Triumph 77 mm 5 speed was its replacement. Same kind of box as a T5, or a Top Loader 3.03, only never ever anywhere near as strong as this two gearboxes can be.

From Sept 75 to 79, just 352 Moss box manual V12s were made out of 115,413 total from 1975 to 1996 or so.

In 1977, Jaguar fitted a different three-speed Turbo-Hydramatic 400 transmission from GM instead of Borg Warner. But the loss of performance with a 2.48:1 first 3.07 verses Jags 3.03" 4 speed manual was just like taking 48 hp off a 286 hp car. Early 3.07 axle 4 speed XJ-S had a 1st gear of 2.933:1, late ones might have been 3.238 with the 2.88 axle.

4speed, 3.07 axle, its 155 mph top speed, 14.9 second quarter mile , 6.5 sec 0-60 and 14 US mile per gallon highway 70 mph cruise consumption dropped to 136 mph, 16.6 seconds, 8.5 seconds and 11 mpg respectively with a THM 400.

Despite only 74 pound less weight in the gearbox, the cars weigh bridged at 265 pounds difference due to oil cooling system and appointment changes. The Moss box was pretty light, the THM 400 was well over 155 pounds.


See this View: https://youtu.be/8NaQxnuEMAU
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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So I stood in front of the car this morning...

For more than a minute.

“Do I wanna go down this path....Do I wanna tear this whole thing to the ground?”

That was the thought for the day...
 
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droopie85gt

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Well one way or the other, it keeps both of us where we chose to be.
Just lobbing eggs back and forth.

And furthermore....

Who else would I tell to wait till winter? Who else here would rather build than drive?

Pics to follow

Uh, no pics. And evidently a lot of people. All the threads I follow have posts with no or very few pictures proving the car actually is driveable. And I guess by default, I follow my own thread.

So I stood in front of the car this morning...

For more than a minute.

“Do I wanna go down this path....Do I wanna tear this whole thing to the ground?”

That was the thought for the day...
Of course you do. What would this thread turn into if it became: "Today was Saturday. I washed and waxed the Monster, then went to the Hoover Cars and Coffee. I hung out with my friends in their Fox Body Mustangs and new young friends in their Del Sol's and Velosters."

Yeah, that ain't happening.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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Just lobbing eggs back and forth.

Consider it that I’m “egging you on” to keep you focused.



Uh, no pics. And evidently a lot of people. All the threads I follow have posts with no or very few pictures proving the car actually is driveable. And I guess by default, I follow my own thread.

I’ve posted numerous pics proving that it gets driven.

Of course you do. What would this thread turn into if it became: "Today was Saturday. I washed and waxed the Monster, then went to the Hoover Cars and Coffee. I hung out with my friends in their Fox Body Mustangs and new young friends in their Del Sol's and Velosters."

Yeah, that ain't happening.

You said it.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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And on that note..

The point of no return:
8427CC1E-BA69-4C7E-B973-697A2653C18B.jpeg

E54F90BC-76EB-47C1-916B-70B4A21F0890.jpeg
CC7F021E-0FC3-4ECE-926C-F6CBABA7C2ED.jpeg


The Dash had to come completely out, as did my “ two piece steering column”. I’ll justify this insane task as an excuse to repaint/ have it powder coated before I put it back in. IIRC, it has body filler at the weld joints, so I’ll probably opt not to have it PC’d, because he’ll have to sand blast the thing before.
I’ll also modify the drop section of the dash, and cut it out so that the column can be put in as a solid piece instead of having to take it apart like I do now.

And maybe I can tidy up the menagerie of wires while I’m at it.

The clutch pedal config is a challenge. At this time I only have the slightest inkling of what I need to do to make it work with what I currently have. I have a pedal shaft made, but I can’t figure out how I’m gonna mount it, or actuate the master cylinder ( push or pull),.

This was the part that had to happen before I could mount the trans. Consequently, the 4l80 isn’t coming out until I figure out the pedal thing.

I do know that I’ll have to have a whole new drive shaft built, as this trans is about 3.5” shorter than the current pig in the tunnel.

And that’ll be another $350.00 this swap has cost.
 
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