Build Thread 1978 Fairmont. I bet somebody back home’s thinkin’…I wonder why he don’t write..?

This is what I want…
I want the freakin thing to start, cold or hot like a new car.
I want the idle to fall to where it’s set as soon as i push in the clutch.
I want the throttle response crisp like a well tuned carb.

If I knew where to go/what to change w/regard to tuning to affect the startup, i’d have no problem with that.
If I disconnect the iac, and set the idle using the throttle screw, i’d expect idle to remain static, not wing up and settle, then surge maybe, maybe not like it’s doing now. From there, I’d have no problem with that either.

A soggy throttle blip, i can live with.
Again you changed the transmission type, now you no longer have a large fluid dampening device behind the engine that we have to wind down.
The idle valve is not the only idle control you have going on... its still setup in closed loop idle, so when it engages closed loop it thinks it needs to wind down from XXXX rpm to a stable XXXX idle speed. It will do this with timing control as well.

Lets change a few things.

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Your tune is likely still setup in closed loop, lets make it so that the idle valve just moves to a set position at each temperature. This will allow you to control the idle speed based on coolant temp by altering how far open the idle valve is. Larger number = more air at a given temperature... the Ford IAC valve is basically fully closed at 35% Touch NONE of the other settings on this page just what I have highlighted.

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Now lets go to the Idle Warmup Duty table and make some basic changes to the table on the right. You dont have to alter the curve with dots directly, you can hit the little button on the top right of the graph to bring up the table like I have on the right and punch in values. My suggestion is to start altering this curve with the engine full hot or back the idle screw down a turn before you begin. These values should act linear from 40% to 80% so you can figure out how much rpm a 5% change will give you fairly easily.
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Now this says closed loop but its for timing control to help stabilize the idle where you want it at. The First thing you should do before you fire the engine up is set this curve to the RPM you want for each temp. This WILL NOT affect the idle valve in open loop bit it will affect the TIMING.
You can disable this by turning off all the settings un the Idle Advance Settings
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This curve works with the curve in the photo above to control the idle speed based on engine temperature. its pretty self explanatory it lowers or raises the timing to reach the target you have in the closed loop curve. The settings in this the way it is right now are very aggressive.

Let me know if you have more questions, take care of this first and then I will explain what to alter in the startup settings.
 
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As stated....too fckin weird..

I went down stairs this morning after reading some of Steve's' "self-help" post. I set the Idle control to open loop..It was the only thing I did. I start the car, it lugs and chugs, and dies. I open the WUE graph, and bump the point on the bar graph up a little and restart it. It stays running, but is idling at 800 rpm, and the AFR is reading 10.9...I'm thinking too fat. I pull it back down slightly (probably right where it was) and watch as the afr goes leaner...now its a whole point leaner...I figure I'll leave it and let it get to operating temp. I decided to enable the auto-tune feature and it does what its supposed to do. The car is idling at 14.7-9 the cursor floating in VE table, is staying put in one cell...."perfect"

I shut the thing off, and go eat lunch. When I come back downstairs, fully intending to drive the thing, I try to restart it...It's a bitch, but I finally get it to stay running. I take it for an extended drive. I datalog the entire trip. I purposely put the car in noon lunch traffic so that I can start and stop as many times as possible. I have to be careful how I come up to a light though, a hard decell quick stop would sometimes cause the car to die, so I have to approach the light casually, ease out the clutch and let the idle fall and settle...That seemed to work.

A couple of times the engine completely died during a brisk pull through the gears like you literally pulled the freakin plug....It did it to me during the initial shake down cruise...But since it was rolling, i was able to restart just by easing off on the throttle, and re-engaging the clutch.

Other than that, It ran fine.

It seems like its gonna run very good, but since I haven't put my foot completely on the floor, and based on the seat of the pant-o-meter can only make a guess..The word that comes to mind is....MEH.
Its fast, but the auto seemed way faster to me. And watching the boost gage, I'm not seeing very high boost numbers. Above 4500 rpm, I should be seeing high teens,..but I aint seeing that.

So,...wondering what was what, I decide to take a look at the datalog.

It was the most Bizarre looking thing Ive ever seen when talking about datalogs..It was infact only making gate pressure...The boost duty cycle was always at zero. Max boost was 10.3 psi, which is gate pressure.. The AFR was weird, timing wasnt right...not one single thing that shouldve been,...was.

Then I looked at TPS percentage..........Max TPS percentage was.........ZERO. Min TPS percentage was -37.7.

How the fck was this happening?

So, I decide to re-calibrate the TPS...
It wont let me. The gauge in TS showed no movement at all...Its like the the thing isnt even hooked up. I open the hood.

It's not.

MOF, It hasnt been since I put the transmission back in. From the first shake down cruise, and now two different extended drives today, and the trip to the last cruise-in 60 mile R.T. its been that way.......After thinking about it, I did it when I was building the reinforcing bar that WAS gonna be attached from the upper radiator saddle to the firewall to stop the flex in the firewall. That bar was laying on top of the TPS wiring, so I disconnected it to get the right fit. Remember,..I have since made a bar that is attached to the frame rail beneath the driver side strut tower instead.

All this goes to say that......I've been driving around w/o a functioning TPS.

How did the car even run, much less drive and behave almost normal w/o a TPS reading to tell the engine I had my foot on the throttle? (except the 2-3times the engine just died in mid acceleration).

Boost duty is tied to TPS percentage..so that's why I only saw gate pressure. I'm sure that there is a whole buttload of other devices that require part of the operating Hysteresis to be whatever TPS percentage as well. What little I know about this, is that the engine was running off of the map sensor, and the wideband which tells my small brain, that the tune must be decent, elsewise, I'd might had to have this thing towed for somewhere this afternoon as a result.

But its in the garage instead.

This time, and for the first time since having a running 6 speed...I have a properly functioning TPS sensor.
Which means the next time I go out......Boost duty will come back on line...and instead of 10 lazy PSI...It'll be more like 23 crazy psi. And as decently quick as it is with 10psi...
 
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I do not see any sleeve behind your TO bearing. Are you sure it is all the way on there? Or the correct one? Your transmission must be in place to bleed the clutch. It takes pressure from the springs in the clutch to bleed the slave cylinder. I was going to start my reply with what part of pump the f&^%k out of it did you not get? However if your trans is not installed all the way the clutch will never bleed. Bled or helped bleed thousands of hydraulic clutches. They simply will not bleed by pedal depressions unless they are pushing against something like the Belleville spring in the clutch.
 
I curse the day i decided to remove the 4l80, and put this freakin thing in its place.
* need Italian woman emoji throwing a shoe here*.

I decided that I would hate myself if I removed the transmission after being so close, and found out that i had some tiny bulls sht problem that somehow went away when I removed the trans.

So I went forward…and put another hour into putting the car close enough to restart.

The first attempt was with out the exhaust mid pipe that attaches to the down pipe and crosses under the transmission tail shaft.
The seat was being held in with two bolts, the shifter was mounted directly on top of the trans, w/o the ball, console, or boot in place.

I bled the clutch slave cylinder again till i was satisfied it was running clear fluid, and re hooked the battery cables.
I put the car in neutral, and started it.
It was loud.
I let it get up to a point where I knew that the wide band was adjusting my idle, put my foot on the brake, depressed the clutch, and put it in 1st gear.
It goes into gear.
I attempt the same thing, only I put it in reverse….I have to fight it a little, but it goes into gear.

I lower the car and put it on its tires…Restart the car, put it in reverse, and attempt to back it out.

The pedal almost comes to the top before the clutch engages, but the car moves backwards..
Before i get it completely out, it makes some noise, I attempt to put it into a forward gear…I fight it..I goes.
It clunks forward,…makes some more noise…and that is all she wrote…holding down the clutch pedal makes no difference,..the car is lurching forwar.
I shut it off..

Its….1:00 pm.

I Bust a nut pushing the car back into the garage…and put it back up in the air. I bleed the clutch again, thinking it still has air in it, but nothing but clear fluid pumps out..I restart it, and now it won’t go back into any gear again.

and Now I gotta an internal slave cylinder leak..a slow drip that appears at the bottom of the bell housing…
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Im done with this.

I leave the car up in the air, and go out and work on the F150..Ive had replacement headlights since buying the thing, and the ones that are on it are all cloudy…I need to get away from the Monster.

So i’ve waited…it’s now 7 hours since that car dicked me for the umphteen time since swapping this trans. I figure maybe time will bring some clarity to my thoughts here

The CD009 is out…I will not fck with this one more minute…there are clutch/ alignment/slave cylinder/adapter issues, who freakin knows what else?…

All I know is when it comes back out, I’m not putting it back in.

What a catastrophic waste of time and money.

Im not putting another 4l80 back in it…and despite that negative feedback i’ll get for this,…
Ive looked.
Ive talked…
Ive researched…
I will look at a 4l60e as my option here.

I put this piece of sht CD009 in place for the obvious reasons…I wanted 6 gears instead of 4. I wanted less heat, less frictional loss, less weight…But I also expected…1. Transmission+ 1. Clutch+1. Hydraulic+1. Shifter…would get me there simply enough.

This is me trying to make the 4r70w fit all over again…

Which brings me back to the 4l60e. Because it will fit.( with another freakin adapter) Because it’s shorter, the drive shaft may fit because of it, it doesn’t weigh as much, And research tells me that it can be made to tolerate my power level…and putting the thing in there will be what I know…A flat trans pan that doesn’t fall off a jack when you try to install it..You raise the thing into place,…move it forward, converter studs come through the flex plate..you snug them up. tighten up the bell housing bolts, fill the freakin trans with fluid, hook up the rest of the stuff, put it in gear and wheels turn. You lower the car, back out of the driveway, and drive.

Unlike the current,….flaming, piece of fcking sht that’s currently taking up space in my transmission tunnel now. That thing is FB marketplace fodder.
I agree with the six speed. Do not give up now CarMichael. You may have a mis alignment issue meaning you may need a thicker block plate. A new clutch is supposed to engage at the top of the pedal travel. If there is no block plate or the wrong pressure plate or disc the spring may get overcentered ruining the spring and the pressure plate. Can you not get an adjustable three finger or Borg and Beck style Pressure plate for that Z. I have a 6.9 F250 pressure plate in my 69 boss 302 behind a hays flywheel. Anything is possible you proved that and btw your hotrod Fairmont would be a great candidate for subframe connectors
 
I agree with the six speed. Do not give up now CarMichael. You may have a mis alignment issue meaning you may need a thicker block plate. A new clutch is supposed to engage at the top of the pedal travel. If there is no block plate or the wrong pressure plate or disc the spring may get overcentered ruining the spring and the pressure plate. Can you not get an adjustable three finger or Borg and Beck style Pressure plate for that Z. I have a 6.9 F250 pressure plate in my 69 boss 302 behind a hays flywheel. Anything is possible you proved that and btw your hotrod Fairmont would be a great candidate for subframe connectors
Thanks for all that, but you are giving advice on an issue that has long been solved. Clearly you skipped a whole bunch of “ in between” stuff from then to now. I’m driving the car now for Christ’s sake.
And…
This car has a double frame rail Subframe connector system.It was one of the first things done to the car.
This is a link to the archived old 620 page thread. Because it has been archived, something happens to how quickly you can navigate between pages, and it slows down dramatically, so I skipped ahead through the first 20 pages so that you can see the part where the SF connectors were installed. When/if you click on the link, you gotta give it a minute, because it is after all,…….620 pages.
 
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You are correct. It was running off of the MAP sensor as the main load sensor. Without the TPS, you probably didn't have any transient fueling, so that could explain any moderate to heavy tip-in bucks, misfires, or stalls. Spark is usually determined by the actual load, which the MAP provides, so it shouldn't have had any impact on your spark angles.

As far as tuning goes:

a91what gave some great advice. You can always go back to the original cal file if you make things worse. And unlike a carburetor, if you put the wrong "jets" into the ECU, you don't have to get covered in fuel to revert back to what you had in there originally. ;)

Save your calibration files often and use a solid naming convention! I use a computer friendly sequence like [date]_[military time]_[task description]_[version number] since it will filter in order by date, time, and version number in Windows. Example: "2021-09-03_0945_idle_improvement_v01.hex"

Until you are confident with the calibration, always be data logging as you drive. Whenever you feel something strange (sag, surge, misfire, stall, erratic idle, knock...), save the file whenever you can safely to analyze later.

If you don't understand what something does from the function description for the ECU SW, poke around with (small changes at first) it in your driveway or on a back road and compare the sensor responses from similar maneuvers with your current safe cal to see what impact the cal changes had. When you're done experimenting, load your safe cal back in and drive home to analyze the data in more detail. And just like carb tuning, always watch the temps, the AFR/lambda, and listen for knock. If anything gets too hot, gets too lean, or knocks, back out of the pedal immediately and back track the cal changes.
 
I did the original tune for him, I use an easy to follow convention for each client like
Monster2JZ.rev.1.0.0 and so on with each change to make sure its easy to track.
It comes down to Mike thinks he inconveniences me for some reason when he needs a tweak to the car. :eek:

If he would just call me and log me in it would be done already
 
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What a difference having a functioning TPS makes this time around..I drove it into work this morning.

It is truly a Monster. Only unlike the little beaded dude from southwest Arizona, This version is much more like the one that continually chooses to Fck up Tokyo.
If you’ve ever been in a new BMW,…as with all new cars I’m sure, they all have at least 7-8 speeds. Having that many gears increases how quickly the car transitions through the steps ( gears) effectively staying in its torque curve/power and ultimately decreasing its 0-60 times exponentially.

Having 6 speeds in the monster effectively increases the “Oh sht” factor exponentially.

Full boost is back, as is the exact same tendency for the rear of the car to wanna come around me as opposed to staying behind me under hard acceleration just like before.
With the 3.31 rear ratio, and a 3.78 first, final drive ratios are still steeper than they were with the 4l80 and 3.73’s.
A CD009 has a 3.78 first, 2.32 second, 1.62 third, 1.27 forth, 1.00 5th, and a .79 sixth.
The 4L80 had a 2.48, 1.48, 1.00, and .75 4th gear.
Across the board, this transmission will be faster,….excepting the time spent between gear changes.

Now at 4 separate test drives, Ive determined that the vibration that is here is definitely NOT tied to the engine mounting. It is definitely in the drivetrain, and shows up at 65 mph, and gets progressively worse the faster I go. I didn’t notice it with the auto, so it almost has to be the driveshaft, as ( other than the transmission) that is the only drivetrain modification that has happened this time around that could be. I can’t imagine there is anything in the gear change itself that I can blame for this.
With the TPS hooked up…idle is now stabilized ( amazing how this sht works when you actually have it plugged in). I no longer have to baby it up to a light like I’ve been having to do. I could probably turn the closed loop idle control back on given that I’ve been driving this thing around w/o the TPS hooked up the entire time I’ve had it running.:nonono:
 
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Maybe this is the car that breaks through the vanity plate “sell me” curse?
Don’t kid yourself….we are currently back in the “ fun for now” stage. I don’t know how serious I’ll ever get if/when it came down to somebody actually making me a real offer, knowing that if I sell it, I’ll never be able to duplicate anything like it ever again.
 
By the time I get home tonight, there’ll be another 80-100 miles on the Monster. Sitting in a lawn chair watching the on-lookers stream by. Every different location I attend brings out its own class of yea-hoo.
This one is decidedly red-er than some of the others. Trump hats are still the go-to for required head gear.

( Thinkin maybe I’ll get one that says “ He Lost”) just to spice things up next time I go…

So,…that was then…This is now.

I’m home. There is a stretch of highway that runs about 1/2 mile before you turn into my neighborhood. I figured I’d roll into the throttle in second….

It’s just unmanageable..After lifting, I look back in the rear view and see a huge cloud of smoke.
At the same time I’m thinkin’…..”God I sure as hell hope that’s tire smoke”.

I have been actively trying to sell the drag radials, telling myself that I don’t/won’t need them…

I’ll say this about that.

It is now impossible to accelerate with your foot at 80% throttle or more with the street tires. The power comes on, the tires boil, the car becomes unpredictable, and the drive becomes dangerous to keep your foot in the throttle immediately afterwards. It is pointless, ( or just freakin stupid) to keep your foot in the throttle after that.

Which brings me around to the drag radials. These freakin things were expensive when you compare them to a 15” rim version. In order to sell them even though they’re brand freakin new, I’d have to take it in the ass to the tune of about a 300.00 loss.
( When you consider the other items I’ve gotten killed on, a $300.00 ass ream seems like a bargain in hindsight….)
Anyway, I digress….

All this to say one of two things need to happen:

1.I keep the drag radials, and swap out the worthless 7 year old Sumitumo’s for now.
2. I sell the drag radials, And buy a complete replacement set for the street tires in the form of Nitto 555r gen 2’s..

or….I buy the Nittos, throw away the Sumitomos, and keep the DR’s anyway..
 
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