• Sponsors(?)


CarMichael Angelo

Nobody appreciates me..I'm gonna cut my ear off
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
11,785
12,718
234
61
Birmingham, al
m.imdb.com
Now the the rant is behind me,...I expected everything would need changing. I expected to pull the head when it was my original plan to change out the cams and springs. So again,....I expected it.
I didn't expect that I'd need to pull the head after deciding to use the stock cams though....The scare concerning the blow by getting past the valves was for nothing (according to head dude) He saw nothing that would lend itself to that happening. The only thing that could've happened was that some piece of junk got under the seats while I was doing all of that cleaning and junk, and held the valves open.
So,....Now I have a fresh head with new seals at least.

I'm at the point where I'm gonna run out of welding gas on Sunday when I need it badly. This adapter I'm making to adapt the trans is gonna work, but not unless I can weld it all together. ( I'm gonna guess that the weight of the finished plate will be 30-40 pounds. If I showed you guys what I've done to calculate the spacing difference between the 2j and 4r bells, you'd tell me that I was on crack,..but I guess well just have to wait and see....All I can say is that I was the guy that glued a plate onto the side of a Ford 6 cylinder to allow me to adapt a completely different head to an engine. (and that wasn't the reason it failed)

So,....lets hope that I have enough gas. Between whats left of the Mig gas, and the Tig gas,...I should be able to get it at least tacked together enough to where it looks like a trans adapter.

Then,..all I'll need is the pilot hub, and I'll be able to put that together and mount the engine.
 

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
4,624
3,902
183
41
When is the big show you wanted to drive the monster to ? You're moving right along, Mike.

I know you stated you may not make it but I figured I could go in your place. With a box on my head no one would know the difference. I'll drive my Husqvarna... its orange and sounds like the old engine...minus a few rpm. Maybe I'll put a box over that too. :ninja:

In all seriousness, this thread is great. Keeps my mind off a bunch of stuff I don't feel like thinkin' about or doing. Wish that pan was available in a kit.
 

95BlueStallion

Drop into my dm’s gurrrrrl
10 Year Member
Feb 22, 2007
5,442
3,103
214
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
My wife told me that she had never seen me any dirtier than what she saw this evening when I came out of the garage.

I've never felt dirtier myself.

Seemed like every possible automotive fluid that you could pour or have drip or spill on yourself did all of that today.
I removed the engine,..while removing the oil pump, it slipped and landed in the drain pan under it. It makes this giant sploosh of oil that coats the leg of my pants, soaks my shoe, and coats the underside of the car...which continued to drip on me after I cleaned it all up. Trans fluid, antifreeze, brake fluid, I got exposed to all of that today...

But I did get the engine, and trans out.

At noon I get the call, head dude is done with the 2 Jz head...when I go to pick it up, I discover that he has " surfaced " the head with a belt sander...

Why are there still yea-hoos in business?

Who knows what the problem is with the finish a belt sander leaves when it comes to using a MLS type gasket?

I do.

I tell the guy that I need him to redo the head to give me a semi-mirror finish on the head deck, and that the finish that he gave me will cause me problems with my head gasket seal.
" Never been a problem for me before." Dude says..."Well maybe none of your heathen customers from the past ever ran a MLS gasket, and 20 pounds of boost before" I want to tell him.. But I don't. I just need it fixed.

In the end he can't fix it, the belt sander is all this guy has.
Good to know I’m not the only person that has issues with shops.
 

trebor3170

mine usually gets hard with the car on
May 31, 2019
71
21
18
61
Salisbury, MD
Funny thing, head resurfacing, when I worked at the NAPA store back in the late 70's through most of the 80's, the resurfacer they had was a large grinder with a cup wheel, left a very fine finish, great for cast iron, not so much aluminum. Later, a new machine was purchased, called a broach, had a large disk with 6 or 8 carbide cutter teeth (a large fly cutter, for all practical purposes), it also left a very fine finish, and worked on both iron and aluminum. It wasn't until much later, I heard about the belt sander method, now, I know it's not your run of the mill Black & Decker belt sander, but I still felt that it seemed like a step backward, although I guess it worked for the old style composite head gaskets.
 

CarMichael Angelo

Nobody appreciates me..I'm gonna cut my ear off
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
11,785
12,718
234
61
Birmingham, al
m.imdb.com
When is the big show you wanted to drive the monster to ? You're moving right along, Mike.

I know you stated you may not make it but I figured I could go in your place. With a box on my head no one would know the difference. I'll drive my Husqvarna... its orange and sounds like the old engine...minus a few rpm. Maybe I'll put a box over that too. :ninja:

In all seriousness, this thread is great. Keeps my mind off a bunch of stuff I don't feel like thinkin' about or doing. Wish that pan was available in a kit.
It’s going on right now.
 

CarMichael Angelo

Nobody appreciates me..I'm gonna cut my ear off
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
11,785
12,718
234
61
Birmingham, al
m.imdb.com
Funny thing, head resurfacing, when I worked at the NAPA store back in the late 70's through most of the 80's, the resurfacer they had was a large grinder with a cup wheel, left a very fine finish, great for cast iron, not so much aluminum. Later, a new machine was purchased, called a broach, had a large disk with 6 or 8 carbide cutter teeth (a large fly cutter, for all practical purposes), it also left a very fine finish, and worked on both iron and aluminum. It wasn't until much later, I heard about the belt sander method, now, I know it's not your run of the mill Black & Decker belt sander, but I still felt that it seemed like a step backward, although I guess it worked for the old style composite head gaskets.
According to the shop that did the resurfacing, the machine that the original guy used wasn’t a belt, it was more like a giant upside down jitterbug sander that the guy moves the head around on..
Nonetheless, it didn’t work.
Not only did it leave a “toothed” finish on the head surface,...it was far from flat. It took .010 to get the head absolutely smooth again. It was high in the center, and low out towards the edges.

Not anymore.

To be safe, I’m going to go get my Mig gas bottle exchanged this afternoon. It’ll pass me off to be at a point where I can solve this dilemma, and not be able to because of an empty gas bottle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 90sickfox

CarMichael Angelo

Nobody appreciates me..I'm gonna cut my ear off
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
11,785
12,718
234
61
Birmingham, al
m.imdb.com
The other thing about the engine is that it’s a non-interference engine. Of course I didn’t know that for sure when I was taking the thing apart. The intake cam ( the one that is variable timing) has this 11 mm Allen head bolt holding the cam gear on. That bolt is behind a big assed but. Both of these fasteners require Herculean gonads to be able to get them loose.

There is a nut cast on each cam so that they can be held in place when trying to loosen one of those two nuts holding the sprocket on..
I get the outside nut off easily enough. After trying to loosen the 11mm socket head using standard length hand tools however, it becomes apparent that I’m going to have to resort to a bigger weapon......I get out an adapter socket to adapt 1/2” down to 3/8”, and put my Allen socket on. I check the impact to make sure it’s turning the right way. I put the wrench in the socket, and trigger the gun....it just pounds away,......no chance it’s gonna loosen. But I try it one more time with the air pressure turned up to 125 psi.
BRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTDDDDDDDDDDDD. It starts to spin...success! Only after checking,..and to my horror...it’s spinning the whole cam...backwards..opening and closing the valves with the timing belt off..the wrench had been impacted off the nut.
I stop,....cuss like a dog..and go get online to see if I’ve fcked up 12 intake valves.

There is conflicting info,...I do a leak down,..so when I get leakage out of cylinder # 6, I figured I had to bend at least two sets ( cause only 2 pistons are at TDC at any one time).

But,..I had no bent valves...something was wrong though..I had air pouring out the intake port with the cam removed.

I am a graduate of the school of WTF.
 

trebor3170

mine usually gets hard with the car on
May 31, 2019
71
21
18
61
Salisbury, MD
I doubt that you can deck a head, or anything else for that matter, evenly with a belt resurfacer, the part is just held against a stop and the belt runs underneath, with gravity holding the part against the belt. I'm a machinist, and yes, we do have a belt sander in the shop, but If I want something flat, I'm going to mill it, either with a fly cutter, or an endmill, or grind it, depending on the size of the part, and the precision required. The 2 different machines that were at the NAPA shop both had a platform that was used to square up the head, (I don't know the exact process, wasn't my job, LOL) and it was clamped rigidly in place, then, either the head was moved over the cutter, or the cutter was moved under the head, (I don't remember which, that was a very long time ago). It is also my understanding, that on an OHC head, the deck surface needs to be kept parallel to the cam centerline, and I can see no way to maintain that with the belt.
Just for info purposes:



Notice the words "cheapest" and "easiest" in the description, doesn't say "most precise" :doh:
 

droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!
Dec 26, 2016
956
676
123
Cordova, TN
Say the car whole car does sell on Ebay....what next?
But,..I had no bent valves...something was wrong though..I had air pouring out the intake port with the cam removed.

I am a graduate of the school of WTF.
Get one of these..

41nAKUJf5pL.jpg


And some of this:


91t6mgPIanL._SL1500_.jpg


Remove springs, lap valves. Flip head over, put spark plugs in, pour rubbing alcohol, solvent, or even water, and see if it holds liquid for a few hours.

You can also see if you have a good seat on the valve and seat and if not figure out why.

Oh and that :poo: probably causes Cancer in Kalifornia. Everything I buy these days, says it causes Cancer in Kalifornia.
 

CarMichael Angelo

Nobody appreciates me..I'm gonna cut my ear off
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
11,785
12,718
234
61
Birmingham, al
m.imdb.com
I've decided that I cannot go forward on the transmission adapter w/o having the pilot adapter first. I could wing it using the method I'm currently using, but that risks a slight mismatch of the crank pilot/ converter hub.
Which would put a whole bunch of pressure on the front pump, or the front pump seal at the very least.
Which would cause either a premature transmission or converter failure,....if not both.

So I'm stopped dead. I've laid awake in bed several times now, trying to come up with some alternative method to make this thing, but without a big assed machinist's lathe,........anything I'd come up with will be wasted effort.

the thing I need is so freakin simple In theory though..that is what is driving the control freak inside my head crazy...

I need a steel ring. A big assed super thick washer, bolted to the back of the crank, holding the flex plate on. Cut on the inside on one end to ride on the the o.d. of the crank hub, and cut a different i.d. on the other end to allow the 4R converter to ride inside.

Guess it's time to knock on @KZGUNS door....and get out my caliper, a pencil, and a piece of paper.
 

HotFox

10 Year Member
Jan 5, 2009
876
489
104
39
SE Michigan
Just have to ask the shop that did your head is that the same shop that installed your sleeves and did you bone hone job in your Ford block?