Supply chains worldwide have been disrupted, so this might be a temporary condition. I wouldn't fret it just yet.
If it is made of unobtanium, you just need to know what will break next and pre-order it so it's always on hand
Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.
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Supply chains worldwide have been disrupted, so this might be a temporary condition. I wouldn't fret it just yet.
If it is made of unobtanium, you just need to know what will break next and pre-order it so it's always on hand
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Sponsors (?)
Ford TPS testing... I'll post the whole thing and let you sift out what may be helpful.
TPS Troubleshooting and testing
Revised 29-Jun-2018 to add increasing idle speed after engine start.
The TPS signal ground is not the same as the engine block or car body ground. Do not use the engine block or car body as a ground when checking the signal ground wiring or the TPS voltage!!! You will get incorrect readings that will vary with the amount of electrical load on the electrical system.
Setting the TPS: you'll need a good Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job. Set the TPS voltage at .5- 1.1 range. Because of the variables involved with the tolerances of both computer and DVM, I would shoot for somewhere between .6 and 1.0 volts. Unless you have a Fluke or other high grade DVM, the second digit past the decimal point on cheap DVM’s is probably fantasy. There is no advantage to setting it to .99; that is a BOZO Internet myth, complete with red nose and big floppy shoes.
Since the computer zeros out the TPS voltage every time it powers up, playing with the settings isn't an effective aid to performance or drivability. The main purpose of checking the TPS is to make sure it isn't way out of range and causing problems.
Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer
TPS troubleshooting steps:
1.) Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.
2.) Use the Dark Green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage. Try this... All you need is less than 1.0 volt at idle and more than 4.25 at Wide Open Throttle (WOT). You'll need a voltmeter with a 1 or 3 volt low scale to do the job.
The Orange/White wire is the VREF 5 volts from the computer. You use the Dark Green/Lt green wire (TPS signal) and the Black/White wire (TPS ground) to set the TPS. Use a pair of safety pins to probe the TPS connector from the rear of the connector. You may find it a little difficult to make a good connection, but keep trying. Put the safety pins in the Dark Green/Lt green wire and Black/White wire. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Run position but the engine isn't running. Set the voltmeter on the 2 volt range if it doesn’t auto range.
Here’s a TPS tip I got from NoGo50
When you installed the sensor make sure you place it on the peg right and then tighten it down properly. Loosen the back screw a tiny bit so the sensor can pivot and loosen the front screw enough so you can move it just a little in very small increments. I wouldn’t try to adjust it using marks.
(copied from MustangMax, Glendale AZ)
A.) Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.
B.) When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.
C.) Always reset the computer whenever you adjust the TPS or clean/change any sensors. I just pull the battery lead for 10 minutes.
D.) The key is to adjust the TPS voltage and reset the computer whenever the idle screw is changed.
TPS voltage should be less than 1.1 volt at closed throttle and 4.25 volts or more at WOT
The TPS is a variable resistor, must like the volume control knob on a cheap radio. We have all heard them crackle and pop when the volume is adjusted. The TPS sensor has the same problem: wear on the resistor element makes places that create electrical noise. This electrical noise confuses the computer, because it expects to see a smooth increase or decrease as the throttle is opened or closed.
TPS testing: most of the time a failed TPS will set code 23 or 63, but not always. Use either an analog meter or a DVM with an analog bar graph and connect the leads as instructed above. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position, but do not start the engine. Note the voltage with the throttle closed. Slowly open the throttle and watch the voltage increase smoothly, slowly close the throttle and watch the voltage decrease smoothly. If the voltage jumps around and isn’t smooth, the TPS has some worn places in the resistor element. When the throttle is closed, make sure that the voltage is the same as what it was when you started. If it varies more than 10%, the TPS is suspect of being worn in the idle range of its travel.
TPS will not go below 1 volt
Note: Make all resistance checks with the ignition switch in the OFF position. Failure to do so will result in incorrect results and may possibly damage the meter.
Engine mounted sensor circuit: Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the TPS and battery ground. It should be less than 1 ohm. Higher resistance than 1 ohm indicates a problem with the 10 pin connector, computer or the splice inside the main harness where the wire from the 10 pin connectors joins the rest of the black/white wire.
See the graphic for the location of the 10 pin connectors:
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
Unplug the white 10 pin connector to do some resistance testing. It is good time to clean the connector pins and examine the connector for corrosion, broken wire or other damage. See http://www.themustangstop.com/tech-articles/cleaning-10-pin-connectors-mustang for help in this department.
If the resistance on the TPS Black/White wire and pin 1 of the white engine fuel injector harness 10 pin connector is more than 1.0 ohm, you have bad connection or broken wiring. Repeat the test using the pin 1 of the white body side 10 pin connector and battery ground. You should have less that 1 ohm. More than that is a damaged signal ground inside the computer or bad connections or wiring.[/b]
Idle speed increases after the engine has started and been driven:
When you start the car, the computer reads the TPS output voltage and uses that as a starting baseline or minimum TPS voltage for the TPS sensor.
As the engine warms up, the TPS voltage can slowly creep up past whatever voltage it saw when the engine first started. That causes the idle RPM to increase.
When you shut the ignition off and then restart the engine, the computer reads the voltage and sets whatever voltage it sees as the minimum TPS voltage for the TPS sensor, even if that voltage is more than 1.1 volt.
The first place to look is for a bad TPS signal ground, broken signal ground wire, or bad connection in the TPS wiring. The TPS connector plug and the 10 pin connector are the two most likely culprits.
The other thing to consider is a bad TPS sensor. Again, dumping the computer codes is a must do item on your troubleshooting checklist. See http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/how-to-pull-codes-from-eec4.889006/ or "Surging Idle Checklist
While I always appreciate your input Joe, all of that seems wasted, considering I'm using a toyota TPS sensor, with unknown voltage min/max specs. I was considering adapting the ford tps sensor to this throttle body, so I'll have something to work with that can be readily referenced..but I have ordered a new tos sensor from 'Yota thatll be here on thursday. If that solves the problem, I'm done. If not, I'll adapt the ford unit.Ford TPS testing... I'll post the whole thing and let you sift out what may be helpful.
TPS Troubleshooting and testing
Revised 29-Jun-2018 to add increasing idle speed after engine start.
The TPS signal ground is not the same as the engine block or car body ground. Do not use the engine block or car body as a ground when checking the signal ground wiring or the TPS voltage!!! You will get incorrect readings that will vary with the amount of electrical load on the electrical system.
Setting the TPS: you'll need a good Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job. Set the TPS voltage at .5- 1.1 range. Because of the variables involved with the tolerances of both computer and DVM, I would shoot for somewhere between .6 and 1.0 volts. Unless you have a Fluke or other high grade DVM, the second digit past the decimal point on cheap DVM’s is probably fantasy. There is no advantage to setting it to .99; that is a BOZO Internet myth, complete with red nose and big floppy shoes.
Since the computer zeros out the TPS voltage every time it powers up, playing with the settings isn't an effective aid to performance or drivability. The main purpose of checking the TPS is to make sure it isn't way out of range and causing problems.
Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer
TPS troubleshooting steps:
1.) Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.
2.) Use the Dark Green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage. Try this... All you need is less than 1.0 volt at idle and more than 4.25 at Wide Open Throttle (WOT). You'll need a voltmeter with a 1 or 3 volt low scale to do the job.
The Orange/White wire is the VREF 5 volts from the computer. You use the Dark Green/Lt green wire (TPS signal) and the Black/White wire (TPS ground) to set the TPS. Use a pair of safety pins to probe the TPS connector from the rear of the connector. You may find it a little difficult to make a good connection, but keep trying. Put the safety pins in the Dark Green/Lt green wire and Black/White wire. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Run position but the engine isn't running. Set the voltmeter on the 2 volt range if it doesn’t auto range.
Here’s a TPS tip I got from NoGo50
When you installed the sensor make sure you place it on the peg right and then tighten it down properly. Loosen the back screw a tiny bit so the sensor can pivot and loosen the front screw enough so you can move it just a little in very small increments. I wouldn’t try to adjust it using marks.
(copied from MustangMax, Glendale AZ)
A.) Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.
B.) When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.
C.) Always reset the computer whenever you adjust the TPS or clean/change any sensors. I just pull the battery lead for 10 minutes.
D.) The key is to adjust the TPS voltage and reset the computer whenever the idle screw is changed.
TPS voltage should be less than 1.1 volt at closed throttle and 4.25 volts or more at WOT
The TPS is a variable resistor, must like the volume control knob on a cheap radio. We have all heard them crackle and pop when the volume is adjusted. The TPS sensor has the same problem: wear on the resistor element makes places that create electrical noise. This electrical noise confuses the computer, because it expects to see a smooth increase or decrease as the throttle is opened or closed.
TPS testing: most of the time a failed TPS will set code 23 or 63, but not always. Use either an analog meter or a DVM with an analog bar graph and connect the leads as instructed above. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position, but do not start the engine. Note the voltage with the throttle closed. Slowly open the throttle and watch the voltage increase smoothly, slowly close the throttle and watch the voltage decrease smoothly. If the voltage jumps around and isn’t smooth, the TPS has some worn places in the resistor element. When the throttle is closed, make sure that the voltage is the same as what it was when you started. If it varies more than 10%, the TPS is suspect of being worn in the idle range of its travel.
TPS will not go below 1 volt
Note: Make all resistance checks with the ignition switch in the OFF position. Failure to do so will result in incorrect results and may possibly damage the meter.
Engine mounted sensor circuit: Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the TPS and battery ground. It should be less than 1 ohm. Higher resistance than 1 ohm indicates a problem with the 10 pin connector, computer or the splice inside the main harness where the wire from the 10 pin connectors joins the rest of the black/white wire.
See the graphic for the location of the 10 pin connectors:
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
Unplug the white 10 pin connector to do some resistance testing. It is good time to clean the connector pins and examine the connector for corrosion, broken wire or other damage. See http://www.themustangstop.com/tech-articles/cleaning-10-pin-connectors-mustang for help in this department.
If the resistance on the TPS Black/White wire and pin 1 of the white engine fuel injector harness 10 pin connector is more than 1.0 ohm, you have bad connection or broken wiring. Repeat the test using the pin 1 of the white body side 10 pin connector and battery ground. You should have less that 1 ohm. More than that is a damaged signal ground inside the computer or bad connections or wiring.
Idle speed increases after the engine has started and been driven:[/B]
When you start the car, the computer reads the TPS output voltage and uses that as a starting baseline or minimum TPS voltage for the TPS sensor.
As the engine warms up, the TPS voltage can slowly creep up past whatever voltage it saw when the engine first started. That causes the idle RPM to increase.
When you shut the ignition off and then restart the engine, the computer reads the voltage and sets whatever voltage it sees as the minimum TPS voltage for the TPS sensor, even if that voltage is more than 1.1 volt.
The first place to look is for a bad TPS signal ground, broken signal ground wire, or bad connection in the TPS wiring. The TPS connector plug and the 10 pin connector are the two most likely culprits.
The other thing to consider is a bad TPS sensor. Again, dumping the computer codes is a must do item on your troubleshooting checklist. See http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/how-to-pull-codes-from-eec4.889006/ or "Surging Idle Checklist
One question...the MS3 let's me calibrate open/close percentages within the tuning software.
Do I have to worry about setting up the TPS sensor any particular way in lieu of that?
My concer
My concern wasn't for min-max readings, but for voltage dropouts and non-linear readings. Those are valid concerts for any sensor that translates linear angular movement into a voltage output.
You didn’t answer my question...You're like the guys at DIY autotune.
I didn't answer your question because I have no specific knowledge of MS3. I told you what I know in general terms as it applies to any computer and sensor combination. There are some things that are true of all computer controlled systems, and the quality of sensor input is one of those things.
Hope you get it dialed boss.
Toyota uses Ohms resistance on everything.
It was a bit of a head bender working on turboing my wifes 3S-GE.
I've gotten good help from the NewZealand and US Toymotor crowd.
jondee86
E2 > IDL Zero to infinity (sudden change)
E2 > VTA 0.75 to 3.8 sweep
E2 > VCC 4.2 constant
IDL > VTA 0.75 to infinity (sudden change)
IDL > VCC 4.2 to infinity (sudden change)
VTA > VCC 1.0 to 3.9 sweep
Since you asked, the working range at WOT is 3.63-3.61v,
curb is 0.37v min.
The way Jamesls did his in 2004.
Enjoy your engine.
Toyota's are a little bit like dealing with A Genie in a bottle....don't rub it up the wrong way.
Toyota uses Ohms resistance on everything.
It was a bit of a head bender working on turboing my wifes 3S-GE.
I've gotten good help from the NewZealand and US Toymotor crowd.
jondee86
E2 > IDL Zero to infinity (sudden change)
E2 > VTA 0.75 to 3.8 sweep
E2 > VCC 4.2 constant
IDL > VTA 0.75 to infinity (sudden change)
IDL > VCC 4.2 to infinity (sudden change)
VTA > VCC 1.0 to 3.9 sweep
Since you asked, the working range at WOT is 3.63-3.61v,
curb is 0.37v min.
The way Jamesls did his in 2004.
jdlaugh430 said:
Enjoy your engine.
Toyota's are a little bit like dealing with A Genie in a bottle....don't rub it up the wrong way.
Another day,...Still on jack stands.
Whether or not the solid state relay was the solution, the engine doesn’t die when the fan comes on. I did have to do some real creative wiring to make it work though.
By itself, the relay wouldn’t work. The “ trigger signal“ is a ground. When the ecu is powered up, the ecu sends a ground signal through a wire that triggers the relay. The problem was that when the engine is off, and there is no power to the ecu, that wire becomes a ground.
And the fan starts.
A typical relay would have 4 pins (2) 12v signals. one constant, and one switched. it would have a signal, and a load. that signal would either be 12v, or a ground. Whichever way the signal came to the relay, ( 12v or gnd) the other pin would be opposite of that.
A solid state relay only needs 3 wires. 12v constant, a ground signal, and the load. I guess the 12v could be switched, but the purpose of a relay is to provide high current to a device that draws a lot of power. 12v switched circuits are typically not intended to provide high current through a relay. Bottom line, I had to create a switched 12v high current signal for the solid state relay so that the whole thing would shut down when the key was off.
It wasn’t as big a deal as writing this was.
The tps sensor appears to work.....At least it looks that way.
The car doesn’t die when you put it in gear, and all 4 forward gears work.
Now......SSDD.
The oil pan still leaks.
The oil pressure gauge doesn’t work. It wasn’t the missing fuse. The tach don’t work. i’ve tried every possible combo of dip switch settings that thing has trying to make it work, and nothing works. I’ve tried all week to get through to the mfg. ( New Vintage USA) and only got to talk to the guy one time. Since then...crickets.
Im at the point of being pissed off. Not one of my more like-able moods. I sent dude a email right before this telling them to respond, or give me a full refund. We’ll see what happens tomorrow.
Whether or not the solid state relay was the solution, the engine doesn’t die when the fan comes on. I did have to do some real creative wiring to make it work though.
By itself, the relay wouldn’t work. The “ trigger signal“ is a ground. When the ecu is powered up, the ecu sends a ground signal through a wire that triggers the relay. The problem was that when the engine is off, and there is no power to the ecu, that wire becomes a ground.
And the fan starts.
A typical relay would have 4 pins (2) 12v signals. one constant, and one switched. it would have a signal, and a load. that signal would either be 12v, or a ground. Whichever way the signal came to the relay, ( 12v or gnd) the other pin would be opposite of that.
A solid state relay only needs 3 wires. 12v constant, a ground signal, and the load. I guess the 12v could be switched, but the purpose of a relay is to provide high current to a device that draws a lot of power. 12v switched circuits are typically not intended to provide high current through a relay. Bottom line, I had to create a switched 12v high current signal for the solid state relay so that the whole thing would shut down when the key was off.
It wasn’t as big a deal as writing this was.
The tps sensor appears to work.....At least it looks that way.
The car doesn’t die when you put it in gear, and all 4 forward gears work.
Now......SSDD.
The oil pan still leaks.
The oil pressure gauge doesn’t work. It wasn’t the missing fuse. The tach don’t work. i’ve tried every possible combo of dip switch settings that thing has trying to make it work, and nothing works. I’ve tried all week to get through to the mfg. ( New Vintage USA) and only got to talk to the guy one time. Since then...crickets.
Im at the point of being pissed off. Not one of my more like-able moods. I sent dude a email right before this telling them to respond, or give me a full refund. We’ll see what happens tomorrow.
You need a relay to turn on a relay that turns on your SSR. Don't worry about multiple points of failure. You've got more that enough to go around.
So what's the deal with New Vintage? When I was thinking of going more RestoMod on the 85, I thought about getting a setup from them to replace this digital gauge cluster I put in it years ago.
So what's the deal with New Vintage? When I was thinking of going more RestoMod on the 85, I thought about getting a setup from them to replace this digital gauge cluster I put in it years ago.
More specifically: https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1971/ford/ranchero/101267324
Well..
Your Friday briefing.
Kate and I just came out of one of our pre-covid 19 favorite pubs.....
Total disregard for any single measure of social distancing.
Everybody was sitting at the bar ( right next to each other)
The bar tender wasnt masked or gloved...shaking hands, pouring drinks, refilling drinks in the same glasses, handing out tabs with the same " sign here" pens that everybody else was touching.
We left after one drink. And despite that,....
I'm positive, that I'll test positive in a few days.
If I dont die,.....
I called Summit this morning since I bought the gauges from them. ( I complained to them mildly).
Oddly enough, I get a call from the company I bought the gauges from shortly after.
Now dude is only too willing to help. We diagnose the oil pressure gauge.... bad sender. He's sending out a new one.
The tach.....he is convinced that it is a simple config problem. He offers to call DIY autotune to speak with them to compare notes..Who am I to stop him. If he can speak with Cramer at Diy, and the two of them can iron out the issue...then, yea.
Your Friday briefing.
Kate and I just came out of one of our pre-covid 19 favorite pubs.....
Total disregard for any single measure of social distancing.
Everybody was sitting at the bar ( right next to each other)
The bar tender wasnt masked or gloved...shaking hands, pouring drinks, refilling drinks in the same glasses, handing out tabs with the same " sign here" pens that everybody else was touching.
We left after one drink. And despite that,....
I'm positive, that I'll test positive in a few days.
If I dont die,.....
I called Summit this morning since I bought the gauges from them. ( I complained to them mildly).
Oddly enough, I get a call from the company I bought the gauges from shortly after.
Now dude is only too willing to help. We diagnose the oil pressure gauge.... bad sender. He's sending out a new one.
The tach.....he is convinced that it is a simple config problem. He offers to call DIY autotune to speak with them to compare notes..Who am I to stop him. If he can speak with Cramer at Diy, and the two of them can iron out the issue...then, yea.
I'm not going out wearing a mask. I understand if servers have to wear maks but if they wear them, they can't have them on their chin to talk to you. This was our waitress at Chili's last week.
I am interested how things work out with NuVintage. I mean, right now, how can you not, as any company, provide the best customer service possible?
I am interested how things work out with NuVintage. I mean, right now, how can you not, as any company, provide the best customer service possible?
Sooooo, that IS your 'happy face'!!Well,...I'm at the beach.
I can barely contain myself.
Always wondered about that.
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