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xecute

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The guys from Argentina run the Vertex Magnetos for TC4000 off the alternator pulley and a toothed v-belt drive with twice the diameter driven wheel off the crank drive wheel. Like was said a while back on the potential of using a combined GM ~Isuzu 130 amp alternator/ vac pump to mop up the blow-by...you can use a two in one system if you can find the right part.

ISUZU_NPR_LT180_502xxx_ALT_VAC_PUMP_001_1.jpg
 
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xecute

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The 5.0 literTFi unit used in all non EDIS systems does SEFi operation from just the Dual Sync distributor; Ford eliminated the earlier Crank Position Sensor found on the EECIII 5.0 CFi
 

CarMichael Angelo

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The guys from Argentina run the Vertex Magnetos for TC4000 off the alternator pulley and a toothed v-belt drive with twice the diameter driven wheel off the crank drive wheel. Like was said a while back on the potential of using a combined GM ~Isuzu 130 amp alternator/ vac pump to mop up the blow-by...you can use a two in one system if you can find the right part.
There really isn't any room in front of the crank to add another pulley, but that is the way I'd have to go...just one more instance of an overly complicated solution, that will leave me dead in the water if a belt breaks.( like so many other things now on the engine)
 

a91what

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Mike did you use a factory sbf timing chain setup? Is there a flat spot in front of the timing gear on the timing cover?
If there is we can add a sensor in the cover and place a large washer on the cam bolt with a wedge cut out of it. Boom there's your cam signal.
Assuming there is enough room.
 

xecute

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Run another prox like your CPS off the back of your Avaria oil pump if its able to be run at half crank speed. Or any kind of semi cogged non slip vee belt. My old air pump had a 6mm belt.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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Mike did you use a factory sbf timing chain setup? Is there a flat spot in front of the timing gear on the timing cover?
If there is we can add a sensor in the cover and place a large washer on the cam bolt with a wedge cut out of it. Boom there's your cam signal.
Assuming there is enough room.
This is what Mike's timing chain looks like:
temporary_zps9a694c87.jpg

With the cover on, it looks promising enough..
But, then all of those pesky pullies belts and hoses get added in...
C514FE2C-1744-45C4-87AC-24B2647D3F40_zpsohmelcze.jpg


Helllooo!!!! Timing cover!!!Are you back there timing chain cover?
 

CarMichael Angelo

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oh is that an oil pump cog drive i see?? what are the two pulley sizes on that thing?
I don't know what the drive ratio on the pump is, but its bigger than the crank significantly maybe twice the diameter
 

90sickfox

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All you would need is a tooth count for the crank pulley and multiply by 2....install another pully with that tooth count with a tab for the cam sensor. Program the ms3 so if you loose camshaft trigger it switches to batch fire....

Sounds simple enough...but I have no idea what I'm writing about. Just want to add to the thought process...right or wrong.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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Alright...severe weather heading my way now...this is my oil pump drive setup:
20190314_175426.jpg

If you measure the crank gear at its smallest dimension, not including the standoff for the teeth, you get 1.940.
Just a chicken's :spam: short of two inches.

The oil pump gear itself out, it measures something like 3.180...by my calculations, half crank speed is gonna be 3.880. I would need a piece of something that would stand off another .700, that I could slide on the shaft behind the oil pump gear that could be rigidly locked at position, and make a bracket so that I could adjust the sensor position for gap and I'd have what I'd need for a cam sensor if I'm reading you guys right.
The oil pump gear is aluminum, obviously the trigger would be made of steel.

I can do this.
 

a91what

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Alright...severe weather heading my way now...this is my oil pump drive setup: View attachment 622451
If you measure the crank gear at its smallest dimension, not including the standoff for the teeth, you get 1.940.
Just a chicken's :spam: short of two inches.

The oil pump gear itself out, it measures something like 3.180...by my calculations, half crank speed is gonna be 3.880. I would need a piece of something that would stand off another .700, that I could slide on the shaft behind the oil pump gear that could be rigidly locked at position, and make a bracket so that I could adjust the sensor position for gap and I'd have what I'd need for a cam sensor if I'm reading you guys right.
The oil pump gear is aluminum, obviously the trigger would be made of steel.

I can do this.
That's not the issue.. the driven gear HAS TO BE double the size of the drive gear period. No matter what size you make your pulley deal it's still going to spin at the oil pump shaft speed.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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Or conversely why wouldn't I just put some sort of half diameter wheel of the 36-1 trigger wheel, and bolt it directly behind the small gear on the crank. Wouldn't the trigger just need to see a missing notch out of a solid wheel?

*edit* Sigh.....I'm such an idiot..:nonono: id have to go the other way..the wheel would have to be twice as big.

I called aviaid about whether or not there is a gear that I could put on the pump to drive it at a true half speed of crank speed..There is,...but it would dramatically speed the pump up from where it is now,...pressure would go up as well....id have to adjust the regulator to drop the pressure...All of which is fairly easy to do. I may have to get a different drive belt (maybe)
I'd have what I need, but I'd still have to figure out a trigger system...a mount for the sensor...why do I do these things to myself?
 
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90sickfox

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For every 2 crank revolutions you need one trigger for the camshaft....you'd need about a 4 inch round pulley to get on that belt. You could make a standoff for it from that adjusters bolt. There....done.
 

a91what

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Mike, like I said over the phone you don't have to go full sequential. You can just run the crank trigger and do semi sequential fuel, and forget all this mess. Use the ms3x upgrade to get extra functions.

I don't run a cam sensor, I run semisequential fuel and spark.
 

xecute

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Don't get hyponitinzed into a diagnostic rut.

Fords dual sync PIP signal going to the PCM and the SPOUT coming out was very smart dual use typical of Electronic Technician thought. And running Sequential without an EECIII style crank sensor was vey smart. Don't forget, the other truck 5.0 and 5.8 Port EFi engines remained bank fire for a lot of years.

I always remeber some dumb schmuck telling me any time you see a crank position sensor (CPS hereon), your engine is sequential fire injection. Ugh ha. Then what the heck was Ford doing with a CPS on the 1980- early 1984 EECIII CFi 5.0 V8's in non HO 5.0 Foxes then, wasting inventory? Yet the successor to the EECIII 5.0 CFI wasn't Ford’s new SEFI (sequential electronic multiport fuel injection) system, but the 1984.5-1985 EECIV 5.0 SO and HO CFi, and the CPS was removed because the TFi distrIbutor and its module did all the CPS work. The SEFi followed suit.


Nope, Ford had always planned to go to TFi and EDIS, and the early versions of those didn't need a CPS because of dual sync cam sensors off the distributor. The first of the big 4 liter Cologne V6's in the Ranger and Exploder also had this realy interesting set up when it went EDIS6.

For the 1984-1985 HO 5.0 CFi and the 1986-1994 SEFI 5.0, it used two base reference singles from one source, but there are still two square wave forms being referenced/interrogated by the MS pinouts, just like the Ford EECIV and V.

MegaSquirt just happens to embrace the EEC concept without being a humourless Totalitarian Twerp about it.


MS3x is head and shoulders above other systems because it says

Yes to Speed Density (as well as Yes to Alpha N and MAF due to its 256 bit look-up table transform)
Yes to Fords Thick Film Ignition and
Yes to Fords Electronic Distributorless Ignition System operation.

MS3x doesn't REALLY say no to anything.


When you go to EDIS6, you then have to create two signals, but MS3X can just use the MS2 Extra code Steve has already set up.


Go MS3x, CMA.


Your gonna need traction control anyway.

Even Before Turbo....it was an issue!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=34&v=Vb37v0Zb6lA


My advice?


Now, for oil speed, your golden with the oil pump speed at half engine speed. Remember, the oil pump was driven off the camshaft, which spins at half of engine speed. Cavitation starts happening in a stock Windsor or Cleveland style gear pump at about 6200 rpm. On engine driven G rotor pumps, which are crank driven, its 6200 rpm as well with most modern oils. John Schwarz nailed it back in April 1, 2015.

“Oil has mass and it can only be accelerated so fast, and you get to the point where it can’t accelerate fast enough to do what you need it to do.....Basically, you’re kind of doing kind of a reverse champagne effect. You’re creating such a high vacuum that you actually start getting the dissolved air, the dissolved gases and the more volatile dissolved liquids that are in the oil to come out, and some of this stuff can get destructive in the gear chamber. ”


So going to a steel machined 3.88 diameter driven cog for your Aviaid should be possiable. Remember, only the prox sensor has to see a steel part...the driven cog doesn't have to be all steel, just the reading part.

To be clear, the half engine speed camshaft ratio is a 2:1, an under drive, less than your current oil pump ratio. Your at 1.64:1 under-driven at the moment. So its all good if you choose to do a 3.88 cog. But it has to work out at 2.00, not 1.99 or 2.01. Or it'll get out of sync.

Dial it up with the MS3X, then latter on, do a swap out of the belt and driven cog on your Aviaid. Use whatever hall-effect prox you have spare that takes your fancy. Probably the earlier Taurus one you trial fitted the CRS out with.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
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Mike, like I said over the phone you don't have to go full sequential. You can just run the crank trigger and do semi sequential fuel, and forget all this mess. Use the ms3x upgrade to get extra functions.

I don't run a cam sensor, I run semisequential fuel and spark.
Yeah but it's like this:

The ms3x is like a super computer. It'd be a shame to go through the upgrade and have to rewire the injectors just to use it for part of what it can do. I'm gonna get the car running and focus on getting the new/old sheetmetal parts worked, repainted and installed.

Summertime will be here sure enough, and I'll need/want to do something else to the car. At that time I'll look at tearing the dash apart and adding the colossus under my dash.

In other news, and speaking of Summer, my plans for this years vacation(s) got changed.

The wife wins these huge vacations as a result of her hard work. Her company is one of those places that still pays its employees very well, as opposed to ones like mine where the pay plan changes every year to make it harder to earn what you did the year before. All while the company that I work for makes more money as a result that very same year.

So, when and if she wins one of these vacations, I got no problem going wherever that may take us. In this years case, that would be the Dominican Republic. We go sometime in May. They are all inclusive, very exclusive, and her company picks up the tab for everything including the personal income taxes that would come as a result of a bonus like this one.

The fact that I'm not really a fan of the beach, or third world countries aside....I'm going. That's HER vacation.

MY vacation was supposed to come in October. Me and the Monster would drive to the Mississippi gulf coast like I did last year, and spend 3-4 days hanging around car guys, looking at all of the cool sht, and showing off the Monster. She comes along, but it's for me, she's not into all of the car stuff, so she makes due with the beach, the casino, the food,...and maybe my company.

It was so freakin cool last year,..it was a definite must to redo this year.

But then I had to go out to dinner with her last week. Going out to dinner with her usually involves having a few drinks. Not enough to get stupid or anything, just enough to loosen my resistance to things she might say....Things like "Let's do it."

No,....not "that" it.

The "it" I now have to do, is give up my car guy vacation in favor of a European one. ( imagine btchin about not wanting to go to Italy)

We get these vacation offers in our email. This particular offer includes RT airfare, car rental, and hotels for 8 nights in Rome, Tuscany, and Venice, for 1100.00 ea...................How can you not say yes to this? At least that's the way my 3 drink in the bag, sitting next to my hottie wife with her big eyes, glowing like a Coleman lantern turned to full wick, smiling like a Cheshire Cat, self saw it.

The actual problem isn't going there,...I've always wanted to be able to self drive through the middle sector of Italy and see this place...The problem is that it will force a forfeit of the Monster vacation. The Italian trip is in early November,....the Monster trip would've been in Early October. Time off is the problem. It's either spent in Italy, or in Mississippi.


I get two weeks paid vacation. I think the Dominican thing is 4 days, You'd think in a company where you only get paid if you're there, that they wouldn't care if you take 3-4 extra days unpaid off during the year,..but the Manager I have to work with acts like that would cause the store to have to close up during that time.

Just for shts n grins, I entered my vacay request at work....it wont even let me put the whole Italy vacation request in with the Dominican thing in as well....says I'm 16 hours over. Never mind the 16 additional hours I'm wanting in October...Kate says to tell them to take it or leave it....

Yeah,.....We'll see what she says when they leave it.
 

xecute

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Your choice, CMA ;-)

One 22.1% bigger wheel change on the Aviaid at any time, and you can keep the wiring where it is with the addition of MS3X. Its not gonna take you any additional time.

For holidays, my family says Roma is a must do. But cousin Charlie is a Kiwi naturlaised into Spain, and Rebbecca's hubbie Franco is from Rome, so they are biased.
 

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