'86 New Turbo Build First Start/Idle Trouble. Full Tune specs attached

Heffay

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Jul 9, 2022
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I will be as concise and accurate as I can be to not waste your time. I will miss details and do not expect this initial post to contain everything you need to get the "full picture" so tell me what else I need to give information wise and I will try my best.

Experience using Tuner Studio: 5 days. Fresh rookie. Treat me as such.

TLDR Problem: Cannot get car to stay running or idle on TS base tune without staying in "fixed timing" and idle control test PWM 40% and even with this the idle is 900-1000 RPM and 11 AFR. It is good enough to let me set the timing but if I lower PVM below 30% car will die. If I stop using idle control test feature but stay in fixed timing the car will sometimes start but surge a few big swings and then die. Car will not run when "Use Table" is chosen in ignition settings even after timing is verified.

I got the base tune from megasquirtpnp.com under the mspnp2_maps category for Ford 1986-1993 mustangs

Current Tune File: see attachment

What I've done/tried:
I have calibrated TPS, wideband (custom linear numbers from Innovate user manual), calibrated thermistor tables by choosing Ford coolant temp sensor from drop down and GM Air temp sensor. EGO control is on single wideband. Spark output setting: Going Low. Fixed timing set to 20 degrees with 10 angle/offset which when I use the idle valve test at 40% PWM to hold idle at 1000 RPM (11 AFR) The balancer matches and reads 20 degrees with timing gun. SPOUT is in at all times. Coolant Temp sensor is working cannot confirm yet if new GM air temp sensor is correct.

I have taken off the upper intake and looked for visible vacuum leaks, disconnects, open ports but do not see anything out of place and have reinstalled intake and throttle body.
After 4 days of fighting rich and lean conditions, it is very possible my plugs are fouled and a fresh set can be installed if the brand I am using can be confirmed as correct.

There is so much "new" in this build that is untested so I understand there can be a lot of things that can and will go wrong.



Tuning program: Registered Upgraded Tuner Studio; v3.1.08
Controller: Microsquirt with built in Foxbody adapter: MS2 Extra 3.4.1
Connection Type: FTDI - D2xx driver

Fresh Build; Car has not run on this set up before*:


- 1986 Mustang GT w/1987 stock short block 302. T5 Manual Transmission
- 3 bar GT40 heads w/ 1.7 rockers w/ explorer intake
- 65mm TB - professional products brand (was working on stock 86 car before new build set up)
- 42 lb green ford injectors (professionally cleaned & spray pattern tested all in spec)
- Single turbo set up; home built (by someone else) but very similar location and set up to an On3. Came off a running foxbody that used this set up for 15 years but with an FMU
- 180 degree thermostat
- Spark plug: NGK R TR6 gapped to 32
- Stock fuel pressure regulator with gauge (39-40 psi); Walboro 255 in tank
- EGR deleted
- GM AIT sensor placed in charge pipe 10" before TB intake elbow
- Stock Ford coolant temp sensor in stock location
- Was an AC car but removed compressor/condenser/lines because of Turbo routing
- Wideband: Innovate SCG-1 with boost controller; sensor placed in correct location. Not using stock O2 narrowband sensors (unhooked)
- Exhaust: 3" single full exhaust with muffler but no cats
- Stock TFI distributor from 1986; new cap rotor and wires
- Map Sensor: GM 3 bar that came with Microsquirt kit and wired into stock harness where old MAP was; No MAF
- Fuel: New 94 octane pump gas

The car ran great for years on the 1986 GT stock original block with the 65mm TB, stock 19lb injectors, stock ECU and the 255 fuel pump. So I know the fuel pump, Distributor and TB and idle valve worked. It is still the stock harness minus what is not being used anymore.
 

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  • 2022-07-10_10.38.57.msq
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Heffay

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Jul 9, 2022
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More information:
I reviewed the injector dead time sticky and with my FRPP 42 lb injectors and the data sheet provided on efidynotuning.com, I calculated:

Deadtime @ 13.2V = 0.7628 ms
Battery Voltage correction = 0.1245 ms/v
so I have changed those setting in the injector dead time/pwm settings in my tune

Under idle control settings, since when I use the idle valve test feature and increasing the % increases my RPM, I will continue to have the "valve mode" set to normal 0%=off
 

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
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When I first fired my car up I had to set my IAC to inverted. Was a huge PITA until then. a91what did all of my tuning ( it is not finished yet but hes done a bunch of work on it... had internet issues out in the boonies ) but I paid attention. I also run 42lb injectors but I'm a 331 with TF heads, 75mm TB, a XE282HR comp cam, Holley sytemax intake, and 70mm On3 turbo. When I get home from work I'll try to upload it. It's still a work in progress but may get you started and idling. I use TS on my MSPNP2.
 

Heffay

Member
Jul 9, 2022
6
1
13
34
Canada
When I first fired my car up I had to set my IAC to inverted. Was a huge PITA until then. a91what did all of my tuning ( it is not finished yet but hes done a bunch of work on it... had internet issues out in the boonies ) but I paid attention. I also run 42lb injectors but I'm a 331 with TF heads, 75mm TB, a XE282HR comp cam, Holley sytemax intake, and 70mm On3 turbo. When I get home from work I'll try to upload it. It's still a work in progress but may get you started and idling. I use TS on my MSPNP2.
That would be much appreciated, even just so I can use the compare tune feature in side by side windows to see your Ignition and fuel tables. Thx !
 

Heffay

Member
Jul 9, 2022
6
1
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Canada
I saw an old post where @a91what told someone to:

..."Then lock the timing at 18* and drop the idle valve down slowly [in testmodes] let it settle in for 20s and then adjust the fuel to 14AFR keep this up until you reach your desired idle speed, keep note of what idle % gets you what RPM"


I will give this a try so I can have a more accurate fuel table and it will presumably give me some data to configure closed loop idling since open loop is not having a good time
 

Heffay

Member
Jul 9, 2022
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Canada
Updated my firmware to 3.4.4 on the microsquirt and I am now using a 3.4.4 base map file that has the correct calibrations, dead time injector info,and that is now now updated with the recommended MAT/CLT. (it did not magically fix my issue but it does make me feel better that I am working with compatible and up to date file types).The ignition table under 1500 rpm is set to not go under 18 degrees. Fueling is still a work in progress since it requires me to use the idle valve test control function still to get the fuel table better; MAT sensor is working.


However, still no start up without throttle and no idle without throttle input or idle test valve at 40%
 

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  • 3.4.4 updated 1.msq
    119.3 KB · Views: 0

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
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Here's my current tune. Change the name. Theres a huge storm going on over here so I didn't spend a bunch of time on this laptop. lol
 

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  • CurrentTune.msq
    120.2 KB · Views: 5
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