Engine 89 fox tried to install rockers but getting different amount of turns heads milled to much or vavles not same height

Creomod

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Sep 14, 2018
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San Antonio,Texas
Ok I'm trying to set stock pedistol rockers and tourqe but when I turned wrench I'm getting different amount of turns with my wrench. I had a mechanic come install them and he said the heads were milled different and uneven.On the same head getting different readings on both sides of the same head.Also noticed the vavles stems area different hights.Put a straight edge across the top of vavles stems and some are shorter then other.I just bought remanufactured heads at machine shop and assumed they were fine. My mechanc recommended me have them remilled so that they are the same but I feel one of them has been milled short cuz it takes 1 full turn to full turn + quarter turn on some and The other head takes quarter turn to half turn to tighten rocker studs.So he said the head that takes full turn is the one that has been milled more short.He recommended me take them to get remilled but I feel if I mill the short one to make it even then it's going to have to much compression.He said I could get a thiker gasket for that side I'm using felpro blue stripe I believe so I might need one thiker then that,so I was wondering If the vavles stems might be the issue? Do they need to be the same height across? Could that be a reason I'm getting different amount readings on tourqe wrench?Any advise guys?I never even thought that the heads could be milled uneven.
 
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How far are they off? Could you post a picture? On a completely stock hydraulic roller setup I have never put much thought into it. I just torqued the rocker bolts to spec and left it at that. The plunger in the lifter can account for slight differences.

Now if a head has been milled that could affect the length of the push rod you need. Are these E7 heads you have?

Also a small bump in compression from milling a little off of a head will not cause any problems.
 
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Yes they are E7s. I'm across town right now but I will post a pic as soon as I get back.So is sounds like you have experience in this :) .As for the vavles height One or two of them are short about 1/8 of an inch compared to the rest. So it really doesn't matter they aren't the same height? Could that effect the amount of "Turn" on the tourqe wrench?Donyou think a full turn plus is too much? One head takes full turn the other way less tyats after "preloading".
 
Do you have stock Ford rockers? I'm familiar with what you are saying as far as pre load for aftermarket rockers, but never a 100% stock Ford hydraulic roller setup. Ford designed it to just be bolted together as adjusting the rockers on an assembly line would take to much time. You should be able to just torque to the bolts on the rockers to 20 ft/lbs and call it a day. The bolts are not torque to yield so no need to worry about the turns

All that being said, 1/8" seems to be excessive. That might effect push rod length. For E7s I wouldn't spend any more time on them as most people just give them away like I did a few weeks ago. If someone has milled those heads or done other work to them and they are not 100% "right" trash them. Heck GT40 heads are almost free these days.
 
Do you have stock Ford rockers? I'm familiar with what you are saying as far as pre load for aftermarket rockers, but never a 100% stock Ford hydraulic roller setup. Ford designed it to just be bolted together as adjusting the rockers on an assembly line would take to much time. You should be able to just torque to the bolts on the rockers to 20 ft/lbs and call it a day. The bolts are not torque to yield so no need to worry about the turns
Do you have stock Ford rockers? I'm familiar with what you are saying as far as pre load for aftermarket rockers, but never a 100% stock Ford hydraulic roller setup. Ford designed it to just be bolted together as adjusting to the rockers on an assembly line would take to much time. You should be able to just torque to the bolts on the rockers to 20 ft/lbs and call it a day. The bolts are not torque to yield so no need to worry about the turns

All that being said, 1/8" seems to be excessive. That might effect push rod length. For E7s I wouldn't spend any more time on them as most people just give them away like I did a few weeks ago. If someone has milled those heads or done other work to them and they are not 100% "right" trash them. Heck GT40 heads are almost free these days.


All that being said, 1/8" seems to be excessive. That might effect push rod length. For E7s I wouldn't spend any more time on them as most people just give them away like I did a few weeks ago. If someone has milled those heads or done other work to them and they are not 100% "right" trash them. Heck GT40 heads are almost free these days.[/QUOTEally actu

I actually took them back to the machine shop today I wanted an exchange but they didn't have another set :( I also spoke to a Ford tech and he told me to check geometry to mark top of spring install rockers w/ o pushrods,tighten them and wiggle them left to right if the mark is towards the spark plugs and(lower end) then I'd need to mill the fulcrum! If the line is towards the top(intake) then I'd need to shim. He also said I didn't need to tighten in fireing order just as long as both lifters are down in same cyclinder.Im not sure what they are going to do at machine shop I asked them to check how much was milled and I wanted to make sure they were even.The tech said it doesn't matter if they were milled/ resurfaced I'd just have to do the leg work getting parts but I prefer they are milled similar so I don't need to get another set of pushrods.That be crazy if I had to install 3 different lengths of pushrods in my bulid! Curious if I went w gt 40 later on down the road would I need to use a aftermarket cam?Oh yes Ford stock pedistol rockers.
 
At this point trash those heads. It's not worth the money or hassle to deal with them.

If you went with GT40 heads you can use all your stock stuff. If you wanted to use a aftermarket cam you could. You would want to upgrade the valve springs though.
 
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before you spend anymore money lets talk about what you are trying to do.... is this a daily driver or are you building something to enjoy on the weekend?? do you have to pass emissions? you can get alot of cylinder head for cheap these days
 
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When the valve seats are ground, they may not all have the same amount of material removed.
A new valve seat would cause the valve to have more clearance at the rocker arm when compared to other valves since there is more material left on the seat.
The fix for you problem may be a simple as having all the valve seats ground to the same depth .

The other answer is the same as I posted before when you asked the same question.
Michael Yount’s valve adjustment procedure

Here's an easy way to determine this. Start with the #1 cylinder. Rotate the engine with a ratchet on the crank bolt clockwise. Watch the #1 pushrods. First the exhaust pushrod will rise and fall signaling what would be the exhaust valve opening and closing if the rocker were on. As it closes the intake pushrod will rise -- keep rotating clockwise until the intake pushrod falls and is level with the exhaust pushrod - both at the same height. Both lifters are now on the base circle of the cam - both valves would be closed if the rockers were on.

Now, install both rockers. Tighten the bolts with one hand while rocking the rocker with the other hand - continue until you reach the point where you can't 'rock' the rocker any more because there's no gap on the valve stem end or the pushrod end. You are at zero lash - i.e. - no gaps. Stop tightening just as you reach this point.

Now, put your torque wrench on the bolt and tighten it to 18-20 ft-lbs while counting the number of turns it takes to reach the torque. You should hit the torque within 1/4 to 1 turn of the bolt. If it takes more than 1 turn, use a shim to raise the rocker -- each .030" shim will reduce the number of turns to torque by about 1/4 turn. If you reach the torque in less than a 1/4 turn, or you have trouble reaching zero lash even at full torque, then you'll either need longer pushrods, or to CAREFULLY remove some material from the bottom of the rocker fulcrum. Using the procedure described above, you will work through the remaining 7 pairs of rockers. If you follow the firing order, it will minimize the manual cranking you have to do to get the lifters on the base circle of the cam prior to installation of the next pair.

When I first went through mine, 13 of them took no shims; 3 of them took 1 .030" shim. Upon cranking it up, one or two of them sounded a bit noisier than I thought was right, so with the engine hot, I pulled the upper off, and the valve covers, and went through the installation procedure again. That time, 11 of them took no shims; 4 of them took one .030", and one of them took one .060" shim. And they were very quiet running.

Good luck with it.
__________________
Michael Yount - K'ville,TN 82 Volvo 242w/5.0L; 2000 Suzuki Bandit 1200
 
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before you spend anymore money lets talk about what you are trying to do.... is this a daily driver or are you building something to enjoy on the weekend?? do you have to pass emissions? you can get alot of cylinder head for cheap these days
Hi
When the valve seats are ground, they may not all have the same amount of material removed.
A new valve seat would cause the valve to have more clearance at the rocker arm when compared to other valves since there is more material left on the seat.
The fix for you problem may be a simple as having all the valve seats ground to the same depth .

The other answer is the same as I posted before when you asked the same question.
Michael Yount’s valve adjustment procedure

Here's an easy way to determine this. Start with the #1 cylinder. Rotate the engine with a ratchet on the crank bolt clockwise. Watch the #1 pushrods. First the exhaust pushrod will rise and fall signaling what would be the exhaust valve opening and closing if the rocker were on. As it closes the intake pushrod will rise -- keep rotating clockwise until the intake pushrod falls and is level with the exhaust pushrod - both at the same height. Both lifters are now on the base circle of the cam - both valves would be closed if the rockers were on.

Now, install both rockers. Tighten the bolts with one hand while rocking the rocker with the other hand - continue until you reach the point where you can't 'rock' the rocker any more because there's no gap on the valve stem end or the pushrod end. You are at zero lash - i.e. - no gaps. Stop tightening just as you reach this point.

Now, put your torque wrench on the bolt and tighten it to 18-20 ft-lbs while counting the number of turns it takes to reach the torque. You should hit the torque within 1/4 to 1 turn of the bolt. If it takes more than 1 turn, use a shim to raise the rocker -- each .030" shim will reduce the number of turns to torque by about 1/4 turn. If you reach the torque in less than a 1/4 turn, or you have trouble reaching zero lash even at full torque, then you'll either need longer pushrods, or to CAREFULLY remove some material from the bottom of the rocker fulcrum. Using the procedure described above, you will work through the remaining 7 pairs of rockers. If you follow the firing order, it will minimize the manual cranking you have to do to get the lifters on the base circle of the cam prior to installation of the next pair.

When I first went through mine, 13 of them took no shims; 3 of them took 1 .030" shim. Upon cranking it up, one or two of them sounded a bit noisier than I thought was right, so with the engine hot, I pulled the upper off, and the valve covers, and went through the installation procedure again. That time, 11 of them took no shims; 4 of them took one .030", and one of them took one .060" shim. And they were very quiet running.

Good luck with it.
__________________
Michael Yount - K'ville,TN 82 Volvo 242w/5.0L; 2000 Suzuki Bandit 1200
So when you had to go back in to make adjustments how did you do that? Could you tell when the car was on what rockers needed adjusting just by looking at them or you could hear the ticking commingled from them? Stupid question but how did you make your adjustments? And where can I get these shims?
 
before you spend anymore money lets talk about what you are trying to do.... is this a daily driver or are you building something to enjoy on the weekend?? do you have to pass emissions? you can get alot of cylinder head for cheap these days
Just trying to get a daily going, building for dependability and just want to make it nice :) Really not looking to race but it's starting to get a money pit here. Sold off most of my action figure collection to get it up to par. I'm just trying to get everything done the right way.
 
At this point trash those heads. It's not worth the money or hassle to deal with them.

If you went with GT40 heads you can use all your stock stuff. If you wanted to use a aftermarket cam you could. You would want to upgrade the valve springs though.
Maybe I might do that depending if I get it running if I can always make changes that's what makes it fun but can also make it suck.
 
Hi

So when you had to go back in to make adjustments how did you do that? Could you tell when the car was on what rockers needed adjusting just by looking at them or you could hear the ticking commingled from them? Stupid question but how did you make your adjustments? And where can I get these shims?
Shims should available at the Ford dealership or at any one of the cam suppliers like Crane or Comp Cams. Or see ttps://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6529-a302

Follow the process as it was written - when it takes more than 1 turn to reach proper torque you need a shim or shims.
 
Hi

So when you had to go back in to make adjustments how did you do that? Could you tell when the car was on what rockers needed adjusting just by looking at them or you could hear the ticking commingled from them? Stupid question but how did you make your adjustments? And where can I get these shims?


Follow the process as it was written - when it takes more than 1 turn to reach proper torque you need a shim or shims.

Joe R’s Note: shims for this process are available at Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6529-a302
OR
Jegs.com P/N FMS-M-6529-A302
 
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Follow the process as it was written - when it takes more than 1 turn to reach proper torque you need a shim or shims.

Joe R’s Note: shims for this process are available at Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6529-a302
OR
Jegs.com P/N FMS-M-6529-A302


So its ok to have 1 full turn when I tourqe? Does it matter if rockers are different,for example some at 1/4,some at full or should I set them to where they are more or less the same?Another question,for example,when I use shim can is it ok to use a .30 & .60 together on same rocker? I bought a shim set from lmr,new arp bolts(again) and swapped for a different set of heads at the machine shop and I swapped for NEW tourqe wrench, I'm planning on doing it saturday.1 more question,Last time I forced lifters in while heads still installed. I know I shouldn't have but I did, anything bad that cone of that? The rollers seem fine.Thanks for your info brother :) Thank you everyone for the advise :) Good community here! Lots of knowledgeable members.I don't trust mechanics around here,they just want buissness and I prefer to do everything myself ;)
 
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So its ok to have 1 full turn when I tourqe? Does it matter if rockers are different,for example some at 1/4,some at full or should I set them to where they are more or less the same?Another question,for example,when I use shim can is it ok to use a .30 & .60 together on same rocker? I bought a shim set from lmr,new arp bolts(again) and swapped for a different set of heads at the machine shop and I swapped for NEW tourqe wrench, I'm planning on doing it saturday.1 more question,Last time I forced lifters in while heads still installed. I know I shouldn't have but I did, anything bad that cone of that? The rollers seem fine.Thanks for your info brother :) Thank you everyone for the advise :) Good community here! Lots of knowledgeable members.I don't trust mechanics around here,they just want buissness and I prefer to do everything myself ;)
Re-read the instructions and follow them.
More than 1 shim is OK if that is what it takes to get the prescribed torque reading.
 
Re-read the instructions and follow them.
More than 1 shim is OK if that is what it takes to get the prescribed torque reading.
Lol believe me I screenshot them and reading over and over. I need to know do they all need to get same amount of turns Exact or can some be 1/4 turn ,half turn or do I need to keep shimming them till they are all the same or anything full turn and under ok. Can they all be different amount of Turn at tourqe or do I have to shim everyone till they are the same? Thank you for being patient w me I've spent so much money I feel like I should've just got a long block :(
 
Lol believe me I screenshot them and reading over and over. I need to know do they all need to get same amount of turns Exact or can some be 1/4 turn ,half turn or do I need to keep shimming them till they are all the same or anything full turn and under ok. Can they all be different amount of Turn at tourqe or do I have to shim everyone till they are the same? Thank you for being patient w me I've spent so much money I feel like I should've just got a long block :(
Not all the rocker studs will have the same number of turns.
You will have varying numbers of turns before you reach the desired 18-20 ft-lbs torque value.
 
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Ok brother I did everything you said. Now when the rockers are at tourqe is there supposed to be play on the rockers? Are they supposed to wiggle a bit from side to side when done after they been set ,or does that mean I need longer pushrods?When the rocker tip goes down they are tight as hell w no wiggle room but the opposing does wiggle a bit.If it's the case I need longer pushrods what's the best way to shave the fulcrums?
 
Ok brother I did everything you said. Now when the rockers are at tourqe is there supposed to be play on the rockers? Are they supposed to wiggle a bit from side to side when done after they been set ,or does that mean I need longer pushrods?When the rocker tip goes down they are tight as hell w no wiggle room but the opposing does wiggle a bit.If it's the case I need longer pushrods what's the best way to shave the fulcrums?

Now, install both rockers. Tighten the bolts with one hand while rocking the rocker with the other hand - continue until you reach the point where you can't 'rock' the rocker any more because there's no gap on the valve stem end or the pushrod end. You are at zero lash - i.e. - no gaps. Stop tightening just as you reach this point. (continue reading and following the instructions)

If you did indeed do everything as the instructions say, put everything back together and listen to how it sounds.
 
Now, install both rockers. Tighten the bolts with one hand while rocking the rocker with the other hand - continue until you reach the point where you can't 'rock' the rocker any more because there's no gap on the valve stem end or the pushrod end. You are at zero lash - i.e. - no gaps. Stop tightening just as you reach this point. (continue reading and following the instructions)

If you did indeed do everything as the instructions say, put everything back together and listen to how it sounds.
Yes I will just worried that I'd have to change the pushrods out.So can I assume they will adjust themselves once the lifters are primed? That would make sense to me cuz they are a little loose.
I'm trying to add a video but it says it's too large file to process maybe I can email it to you just do you can see what I'm talking about or text it to you in a message.I still have to set the intial timing and DNT want all these noises happening at the same time.
 
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