Progress Thread 93 Storm Trooper GT: The snail, fire, and not-so-extreme wires

  • Sponsors(?)


rdharper02

like kicking myself in the junk
10 Year Member
May 8, 2006
574
121
84
Ok, enough of the worlds ugliest Pinto (yes you can make one even uglier). Need input from the masses on a few things.

So I've never opened a filter after a fresh rebuild, and have had several folks tell me it's normal and to put new oil in and send it. Thoughts?

I still need to pull the old Turbonetics snail and see if I have any problems. If I do, it's time for rebuild, or China's finest for replacement.

Still believe I might have a detonation issue making the odd sound through the turbo piping. If I drop oil back into it, I'm thinking about going a step colder on the plugs (3923 to 3922) and giving it a go. Input?
 

rdharper02

like kicking myself in the junk
10 Year Member
May 8, 2006
574
121
84
You would be amazed at the amount of crud that gets trapped in a fresh engine, even after they have been hot tanked and cleaned. I’d put fresh oil and a filter and try again- Turbo stuff-I got nothin’ :shrug:
I'm getting a lot of similar feedback, so I'm leaning toward new oil and filter, then track down whatever resonate noise I've got going on. Still can't tell if it's piping banging against something, some sort of post-cylinder detonation, or the turbo as given up. So for now, it looks like I'm dropping oil, and pulling the turbo to check it out.
 

rdharper02

like kicking myself in the junk
10 Year Member
May 8, 2006
574
121
84
Have had a ton of company, so haven't pulled the turbo yet. I did put fresh oil in it and have about 20psi at 100rpm and 50 at 1100rpm with the drill. So check my thinking here. Every cashed out bottom end I've experienced dropped a ton of oil pressure if the bearings were bad. So am I being paranoid about all the trash I found in the oil?
20200730_205535.jpg
 

rdharper02

like kicking myself in the junk
10 Year Member
May 8, 2006
574
121
84
Ok so no input pm main bearings and oil pressure experience. Maybe some turbo experience here then. I still have not pulled the turbo, but had an interesting conversation with my father. In it we came up with a theory regarding the metallic noise I still haven't tracked down. :thinking:

So here it goes....
I've got a pinging-like noise not coming from the cylinders.
A couple of the turbo guys suggested it might be post-detonation in the turbo manifold due to excess fuel....but......
It only happens at full operating temperature.
Turbos get to a bajillion degrees (~800+).
I had oil with a considerable amount of fuel into it.

Does the turbo get hot enough to cause detonation of fuel laden oil in the center section? Curious to what you all think.
 

RaggedGT

check back later..
Mod Dude
Jul 20, 2014
4,182
2,814
193
35
Taylorsville ky
www.stangnet.com
I think you have a solid theory about detonation. I still also think you are worried for nothing with the trash you found in your last oil change- next at run to temp situation,verify your oil pressure cold and at temp-I’m sure you will be ok. Fingers crossed you have a charge pipe tapping a frame rail or something lol
 

CarMichael Angelo

clearly, I’ve got something going on in that hole
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
9,235
7,045
234
62
Birmingham, al
m.imdb.com
Aren’t you talking about the engine running with no load in park?
Unless you’re testing this under load, I sincerely doubt you’re hearing any pre-ignition.
Once a bearing starts moving, oil pressure changes..But you can’t use a drill motor to simulate that. I’m sure somebody here knows how fast an oil pump is moving relative to the cam, which is moving at half crank speed. In addition to that, I don’t have to tell you that hot oil pressure is different from the cold stuff,...and hot oil pressure is what matters here. And the rotating assy needs to be rotatin’.

Have you checked TDC on this engine to know where you’re at timing wise? Are you familiar with the process to check for true TDC using a piston stop and marks on your balancer? You had a problem getting it started, did you ever tells us what the issue was that was stopping the thing from starting?

Youve had the noise since starting the car..Eliminate the turbo from the equation.Is the impeller spinning at idle? Are you hearing the noise at idle?
 

rdharper02

like kicking myself in the junk
10 Year Member
May 8, 2006
574
121
84
I think you have a solid theory about detonation. I still also think you are worried for nothing with the trash you found in your last oil change- next at run to temp situation,verify your oil pressure cold and at temp-I’m sure you will be ok. Fingers crossed you have a charge pipe tapping a frame rail or something lol
I hope your right Ragged, I know I've got the down pipe touching in a couple spots.

Aren’t you talking about the engine running with no load in park?
Unless you’re testing this under load, I sincerely doubt you’re hearing any pre-ignition.
Once a bearing starts moving, oil pressure changes..But you can’t use a drill motor to simulate that. I’m sure somebody here knows how fast an oil pump is moving relative to the cam, which is moving at half crank speed. In addition to that, I don’t have to tell you that hot oil pressure is different from the cold stuff,...and hot oil pressure is what matters here. And the rotating assy needs to be rotatin’.

Have you checked TDC on this engine to know where you’re at timing wise? Are you familiar with the process to check for true TDC using a piston stop and marks on your balancer? You had a problem getting it started, did you ever tells us what the issue was that was stopping the thing from starting?

Youve had the noise since starting the car..Eliminate the turbo from the equation.Is the impeller spinning at idle? Are you hearing the noise at idle?
I am talking about running without load, but still seeing a vast improvement cold. We'll see what warm does when I'm up to pulling the turbo. As far as the noise, it came after several starts and only when it reached operating temperature. TDC was initially set using a cross-cylinder bar style stop. I'd like to do it over again, as I'm not 100% sure my fancy timing pointer did not get moved. I'm probably going to take a piece of welding rod and identify the highest spot on the compression stroke via the plug hole. Regardless, retarding the hell out of the timing did not seem to eliminate the noise at idle.

As far as the starting problem, could have been my grounds, my coil, or the most likely culprit, the three failed components I've replaced in the computer. After the computer work, she seemed to fire up every time I turned the key.

So it looks like the following:
1. Pull turbo to check for damage
2. Once good, run up to operating temp.
-Check hot oil pressure
-sacrifice a bucket of chicken in attempt to get rid of the noise
-Verify every contact point in been mitigated
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
9,610
5,804
204
31
Hillsborough county
+1 to the above
a 22 plug is ice cold on a streetcar... 24 is fine for most applications up to mild boost levels [12psi]
23 plug is fine on pump up to 20psi if your not trying to kill the engine and have decent heads [ or aluminum as they pull heat off the chamber]
22 is cold and while they are useful in a high power application they tend to load up some.

the best plug for the application is the coldest you can get away with without fouling.
 

CarMichael Angelo

clearly, I’ve got something going on in that hole
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
9,235
7,045
234
62
Birmingham, al
m.imdb.com
I hope your right Ragged, I know I've got the down pipe touching in a couple spots.


I am talking about running without load, but still seeing a vast improvement cold. We'll see what warm does when I'm up to pulling the turbo. As far as the noise, it came after several starts and only when it reached operating temperature. TDC was initially set using a cross-cylinder bar style stop. I'd like to do it over again, as I'm not 100% sure my fancy timing pointer did not get moved. I'm probably going to take a piece of welding rod and identify the highest spot on the compression stroke via the plug hole. Regardless, retarding the hell out of the timing did not seem to eliminate the noise at idle.

As far as the starting problem, could have been my grounds, my coil, or the most likely culprit, the three failed components I've replaced in the computer. After the computer work, she seemed to fire up every time I turned the key.

So it looks like the following:
1. Pull turbo to check for damage
2. Once good, run up to operating temp.
-Check hot oil pressure
-sacrifice a bucket of chicken in attempt to get rid of the noise
-Verify every contact point in been mitigated
If there isn’t excessive movement in the impeller shaft, or evidence that the blades are contacting the housing, there is nothing in that thing that can make a pinging noise.
The only thing i can think of is maybe there is something in the exhaust trying to get out past the turbine.
If there was some piece of weld slag that broke loose in the header collector, it might not be able to get past the blades and is getting spit back every time it tries to get out. ( Highly unlikely)
 

rdharper02

like kicking myself in the junk
10 Year Member
May 8, 2006
574
121
84
+1 to the above
a 22 plug is ice cold on a streetcar... 24 is fine for most applications up to mild boost levels [12psi]
23 plug is fine on pump up to 20psi if your not trying to kill the engine and have decent heads [ or aluminum as they pull heat off the chamber]
22 is cold and while they are useful in a high power application they tend to load up some.

the best plug for the application is the coldest you can get away with without fouling.
I've been going back and forth on the 22s. Mainly because it takes about 20 minutes just to pull the four passenger side plugs. I think your input has me convinced the 23s will stay in it for now.

If there isn’t excessive movement in the impeller shaft, or evidence that the blades are contacting the housing, there is nothing in that thing that can make a pinging noise.
The only thing i can think of is maybe there is something in the exhaust trying to get out past the turbine.
If there was some piece of weld slag that broke loose in the header collector, it might not be able to get past the blades and is getting spit back every time it tries to get out. ( Highly unlikely)
I pulled the snail out today and can't find any sign of anything contacting the exhaust or the intake side. The impeller has some up and down movement that concerns me a bit. The below photo is of the extreme gap.
big gap.jpg

Then the impeller pushed toward the wall.
little gap.jpg

Again, no sign of contact, just my own paranoia of "things that might be wrong." I'll contact one of the local turbo shops tomorrow and see how much the want to take a look at it.

On another note. It's been a long while since I've seriously wrenched on this car and I'm re-learning all the F-ups I've learned previously.
stuck wrench.jpg

Not easily seen, but this is where I locked my ratcheting wrench between the bolt and the center section of the turbo, requiring me to remove all the other bolts and break the sealant loose to get enough space to remove the wrench. Doesn't sound like much, but this monkey has done this about a half dozen times. As soon as I realized it, I felt like kicking myself in the junk.
 

rdharper02

like kicking myself in the junk
10 Year Member
May 8, 2006
574
121
84
Out of all the jacked up stuff I've said over the years.....well, it was going to happen eventually...lol
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
N Replacement Options for 2001 Mustang SVT Tail Lights-Damaged in Hail Storm SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech 0
Steel1 How'd The Northeast Members Make Out With The Storm? 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 21
Murkstang Progress Thread '88 Gt Project Blue Storm 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 117
R 2005 Carpet Wet After 3day Rain Storm 2005 - 2009 Specific Tech 7
RIO5.0 Halloween storm damage...Ouch !!!!! 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 12
Jrod0985 Tropical Storm Aftermath PLEASE HELP SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech 12
EPIK The calm before the storm.... Pics!!! 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk- 19
5 storm damage SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech 2
96GT281 we got a little taste of tropical storm fay 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk- 12
glowstang93 Storm Damage 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 1
Bolt on 5.0 rear gears and I beat the storm 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 3
M Anybody shot/handled/seen the beretta px4 storm 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk- 1
Foxfan88 anyone getting the ice storm?? 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 15
IICrazy Storm coming in Regional Forums and Event Information 24
C hard to shift after th-storm SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech 2
hungrymonkey Ice Storm Regional Forums and Event Information 36
J Storm King Rd (NY) Trips? Regional Forums and Event Information 7
Eos GRRR!! Stupid hail storm... 1974 - 1978 Mustang II Talk & Tech 5
MustangLX99 Damn ice storm and vinyle top. Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 6
balderman Idler pully Squeeking up a storm 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 3
OinkAodeOink Still alive, damn storm (War PICS) 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 17
syberjunkie Is everyone in the KC area ready for the big storm tonight/tomorrow? 1965 - 1973 Classic Mustangs -General/Talk- 1
S Satin Black Hood and Deck Lid? Like trooper car maybe? 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 11
0 state trooper+eleanor.. 2005 - 2014 S-197 Mustang -General/Talk- 5
grey5.0beast Required tools to change a starter on a 1998 Isuzu Trooper: Other Auto Tech 5
StangVert00 Mustang Troopers On The Mass Pike?? Regional Forums and Event Information 16
jordanvraptor Girl troopers rock! Regional Forums and Event Information 5
347_stang Stroker? check! Snails? check.. Get in here! 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 37
whitesqual Found a Snail in my Garage! 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 13
Look Its Aaron Found a shiney snail today... 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 15
Slow5.0 New RSX-S Integra slow than snail 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 20
Similar threads