Progress Thread Anyone ever clay bar their car? It sucks!!

Reddevil91

5 Year Member
Mar 3, 2010
1,118
394
123
So I’m making the swap, came across these on FB from a guy who bought a car and everything in it, decided he didn’t want to use these bc he didn’t want to mess with the wiring. All the gauges were new in the boxes, came with the classic dash carbon and an sve black cluster and the deal was to good to pass so snatched them. Sold the sve one already, got all the gauges in, drilled the holes for the LED indicators last night and got them all set in. I added a white led for the high beam and used the yellow one to run as a low coolant or check oil. I have the classic dash plug and play wiring kit. So idk what the hell im doing besides reading and reading the instructions for plugging the wires in. So for the the water temp gauge the instructions read as though it had the 3 blades for ground, ignition, signal. My gauge doesn’t have that, it’s a plug in with two wires to a sender and then 3 wires red,black,white coming off it as well, this is the same for my oil pressure gauge. Have any of you guys wired up these gauge clusters? Trying to get this knocked out on my own but I’m starting to get frustrated. It doesn’t seem that hard but I also don’t want to mess anything up.
https://classicdash.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/87-93_Mustang_instructions.pdf
 
  • Sponsors(?)


BlakeusMaximus

“Blakeusdoneimus”
Jul 12, 2017
1,646
897
153
I have no experience with those but that would look cool as hell along with providing accurate readings of what’s really going on. I’m sure someone will speak up devil.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reddevil91

Reddevil91

5 Year Member
Mar 3, 2010
1,118
394
123
I have no experience with those but that would look cool as hell along with providing accurate readings of what’s really going on. I’m sure someone will speak up devil.
Thanks man I’m hoping so if not I’ll just have a friend who wired up my fans maybe get it done for me
 

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
6,803
6,455
234
S.I.NY
Red white black is illumination . The other set wires goes to your sender . So red gets constant 12v , Black ground , white would get tied into the headlight switch. Make life easy . Tie all the illumination wiring into one wire behind the cluster so you only have to make one connection for each 12v, sw12v, ground and they will all light up as they should . This is how Florida 5.0 does it .

64C675BA-F0AC-48C3-A8B4-7DB500AA002D.png
 

Reddevil91

5 Year Member
Mar 3, 2010
1,118
394
123
And here’s the diagram for the other 2 gauges
C88062D4-970F-4863-9A29-5B3BD9FE1EA8.png
So here’s why am stuck and not sure what to do. So my oil and water temp are full sweep. Honestly I have no clue wtf that means vs short sweep. The issue is my connections in the back. The classic dash plug and play kit is geared towards the short sweeps which in turn have the blades or spades thing that I would connect say on the P&P wires I would connect my Green wire to the signal spade, 12v pink ignition to ignition and ground to ground. With the full sweep I don’t have those, it’s a plug in type on the back of the gauge, which has a purple and grey from the plug already pre connected to the sender part then the black, red, white that are loose. Only thing I can think of is to plug the black ground to ground on the wire loom, the red to the pink 12v ignition wire and the white I’m not sure. According to autometer that’s for dimming the white wire. The guys at classic dash told me to connect the grey wire for the gauge light to that white wire as they thought the white wire would be for illumination.
CB5CB53F-B68C-4AA5-B63E-782F9CE03004.jpeg
25EE104E-D84A-47F0-A51F-D553F92ADB92.jpeg
 

CarMichael Angelo

Nobody appreciates me..I'm gonna cut my ear off
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
11,435
12,369
234
61
Birmingham, al
m.imdb.com
You're making this harder than it has to be.

It doesn't matter what the "sweep" of the gauge needle is,...it affects nothing other than how far the needle moves. Think of it this way: A Full circle is 360 degrees. Full sweep gauges typically move the needle about 270 degrees. Short sweep needle gauges typically moves about about half that. Your water temp, and oil pressure are full sweep gauges, the fuel level, and voltmeter are short sweep.
They don't wire any different from each other

The lighting is what you're getting hung up on. Internal light gauges have spade terminals, and standard lit incandescent bulbs that plug into a socket type gauges are only different because there is only two wires coming off of the light socket.
One wire goes to ground,..and the other wire goes to the wire that lights up your old factory gauges.

All 6 of your gauges are internally lit.

The white wire is a light wire. It goes to a light circuit in your car that dims when you dim the instrument lights, so that the gauges aren't blaring at you at night. As said above, that'll be the wire in your car that used to go to up your factory gauge lights.

The red wire is a switched 12v wire. Whatever wire in your car is switched on, and remains on after cranking the car and starting it is where that wire needs to be hooked up to.

Ground is ground. You can ground that wire to any metal part of the body.
 
Last edited:

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
6,803
6,455
234
S.I.NY
You're making this harder than it has to be.

It doesn't matter what the "sweep" of the gauge needle is,...it affects nothing other than how far the needle moves. Think of it this way: A Full circle is 360 degrees. Full sweep gauges typically move the needle about 270 degrees. Short sweep needle gauges typically moves about about half that. Your water temp, and oil pressure are full sweep gauges, the fuel level, and voltmeter are short sweep.
They don't wire any different from each other

The lighting is what you're getting hung up on. Internal light gauges have spade terminals, and standard lit incandescent bulbs that plug into a socket type gauges are only different because there is only two wires coming off of the light socket.
One wire goes to ground,..and the other wire goes to the wire that lights up your old factory gauges.

All 6 of your gauges are internally lit.

The white wire is a light wire. It goes to a light circuit in your car that dims when you dim the instrument lights, so that the gauges aren't blaring at you at night. As said above, that'll be the wire in your car that used to go to up your factory gauge lights.

The red wire is a switched 12v wire. Whatever wire in your car is switched on, and remains on after cranking the car and starting it is where that wire needs to be hooked up to.

Ground is ground. You can ground that wire to any metal part of the body.
Exactly , I sent the diagrams for both types of gauges so he could tie the lighting portions into the stock stuff and then use the auto meter sending units where needed . Super easy task
 

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
4,425
3,759
183
41
That gauge cluster is hella nice !!!

The buddy fuse thing could possibly overload the circuit if the radio and fog lights draw high amperage at the same time. The wiring run to that fuse spot was spec'd for maybe 20amps. Usually, the wires running to a 30amp fuse spot are thicker gauge. If you ran a dedicated power feed wire through 15amp fuse to pin 30....pin 87 to fog lights....pin 86 to fog light output behind switch...pin 85 to metal ground it would take the load off the factory system.

The easiest way is to locate the relay by the battery location under the hood. That way you won't have to run any wires inside the car. You can find the fog light power wire on the left side of the core support coming out of the headlamp harness. The wire will get cut....the side that goes in the car goes to relay pin 86....the other side goes to pin 87. Pin 30 goes through a fuse holder to the battery and pin 85 gets screwed to ground.

The above wording won't allow working fogs with lights off. In order to accomplish that I tapped into an ignition power wire at the ignition switch harness and ran it up to the fog light switch...the " out side " still goes to the relay. This circuit to the relay only pulls fractions of an amp. The plush to this is the fog lights act like daytime running lights when switched on. They cut on and off with the ignition. Can't forget and leave them on. I learnt'd my lesson years ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reddevil91

Reddevil91

5 Year Member
Mar 3, 2010
1,118
394
123
You're making this harder than it has to be.

It doesn't matter what the "sweep" of the gauge needle is,...it affects nothing other than how far the needle moves. Think of it this way: A Full circle is 360 degrees. Full sweep gauges typically move the needle about 270 degrees. Short sweep needle gauges typically moves about about half that. Your water temp, and oil pressure are full sweep gauges, the fuel level, and voltmeter are short sweep.
They don't wire any different from each other

The lighting is what you're getting hung up on. Internal light gauges have spade terminals, and standard lit incandescent bulbs that plug into a socket type gauges are only different because there is only two wires coming off of the light socket.
One wire goes to ground,..and the other wire goes to the wire that lights up your old factory gauges.

All 6 of your gauges are internally lit.

The white wire is a light wire. It goes to a light circuit in your car that dims when you dim the instrument lights, so that the gauges aren't blaring at you at night. As said above, that'll be the wire in your car that used to go to up your factory gauge lights.

The red wire is a switched 12v wire. Whatever wire in your car is switched on, and remains on after cranking the car and starting it is where that wire needs to be hooked up to.

Ground is ground. You can ground that wire to any metal part of the body.
Hmmm ok so I don’t know a whole lot about wiring up. So here is where I’m stuck. I have the instructions that came with the gauges themselves. I’m using the classic dash plug and play connectors which was actually making this really easy to connect up. You got the two wire looms, you follow the diagram and plug in easy peasy. Well when it comes down to the water and oil it’s different than what classic dash made these for. Right on the water the green wire water goes to signal prong, one of the pink 12v plugs onto the ignition prong, one of the grounds plugs onto the ground prong. Same for the oil except I plug the blue wire in the wire loom marked oil onto the signal prong, pink to ignition, ground to ground prong. Except my water and oil gauges aren’t set up that way. Which is why I am not sure which wires I need to connect.
EAD0F02C-CC75-4A39-A15F-29A2059C812B.jpeg
1EC37891-3362-4BCD-A190-3E23F8AB7250.jpeg
D4EEBA27-5009-4389-92E3-0FACD77B620F.jpeg
511D0208-4BA2-4800-A4FC-7E4F58A15019.jpeg
0CE39934-C644-48A6-88D0-A6D366B7937D.jpeg
 

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
6,803
6,455
234
S.I.NY
You’re not using the signal wires that are in the plug and play harness . You need to use the auto meter sending units with those gauges . Then just tie in the lights accordingly . You can piggy back the light trigger off the speedo and tach if you wanted too . Same with the ground and 12v power.

Then the wires you’re left with that plug into the auto meter sending units have to go into the engine bay and plugged in. Those gauges are not going to work on the same scale as the stock sensor to my knowledge .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reddevil91

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
8,631
5,055
204
30
Hillsborough county
Correct, it looks like autometer is using a 2 wire sender. They are more accurate, for the water temp sender that's the purple and grey wires. You will connect....
Red- switched 12v
Black- ground
White- probably illumination
 

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
6,803
6,455
234
S.I.NY
Correct, it looks like autometer is using a 2 wire sender. They are more accurate, for the water temp sender that's the purple and grey wires. You will connect....
Red- switched 12v
Black- ground
White- probably illumination
Correct ^ as stated in the original autometer diagrams I posted yesterday morning
 

CarMichael Angelo

Nobody appreciates me..I'm gonna cut my ear off
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
11,435
12,369
234
61
Birmingham, al
m.imdb.com
I am the #1 proponent for doing it yourself here, and to me the instructions couldn't be any plainer. There is a basic amount of electrical knowledge required to install, and wire gauges, but in the grand scheme of things, it ain't rocket science.

Use the senders that come with the gauges, and not from this "plug-n-play" wiring kit. The kit instructions that came with that PNP kit make it easy.

You have to know how to do two things to answer your own questions:
#1. You have to know how to read a wiring diagram from your car so you know what wire does what.
#2. You have to know how to find, test, and verify the wiring that you'll need to splice into for the lighting, and switched 12 v circuit.

Your PNP instructions have done 99% of the work for you..All you have to do is be able to do 1 & 2.
 

Reddevil91

5 Year Member
Mar 3, 2010
1,118
394
123
I am the #1 proponent for doing it yourself here, and to me the instructions couldn't be any plainer. There is a basic amount of electrical knowledge required to install, and wire gauges, but in the grand scheme of things, it ain't rocket science.

Use the senders that come with the gauges, and not from this "plug-n-play" wiring kit. The kit instructions that came with that PNP kit make it easy.

You have to know how to do two things to answer your own questions:
#1. You have to know how to read a wiring diagram from your car so you know what wire does what.
#2. You have to know how to find, test, and verify the wiring that you'll need to splice into for the lighting, and switched 12 v circuit.

Your PNP instructions have done 99% of the work for you..All you have to do is be able to do 1 & 2.
I do agree with you and honestly I was always the guy who just dropped the car off, paid who ever, said fix it up and I’ll be back. I’m on the track now that yes I want to do more myself as i have done lately. Wiring for whatever reason freaks me out bc 1. I have minimal knowledge of working on cars, 2. I’m afraid of doing something wrong and burning out the wiring system. I don’t know much but I am trying. Which is why I’m kinda slow and asking questions that for most of you guys is super simple but for me it’s a process and seems like a big deal ha ha. I mean I want to do this myself and not go drop it off somewhere and have them do it bc then I’ll never learn. So I’m trying!
 

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
4,425
3,759
183
41
Hey man....at some point none of us knew what we were doing. A bunch of us were too stupid to ask questions so we had to learn from our mistakes. You are taking the wiser and cheaper road to learning. Don't hesitate to ask a question. Keep asking until you get an answer that helps you fully understand what you're doing.

This will help you understand what I posted about the fog light relay stuff. The chart shows 4 to 7ft 15- 20 amps at 12 gauge wire thickness, 4 to 7ft of 20- 35 amps calls for 10 gauge wire thickness. Better to have a little thicker wire than what the fuse calls for.

Look at wires like straws....the smaller the straw the harder it is to move fluid through it. With electricity it causes resistance....and resistance causes heat. It's the same way the little wavy part of a fuse works. If more amperage than fuse rating flows through the fuse the little piece inside gets hot and melts.

Screenshot_20190115-160653_Chrome.jpg
 

Reddevil91

5 Year Member
Mar 3, 2010
1,118
394
123
Making progress!! So wired and cleaned up all the connections I had to wire myself, not a lot, just the red, black white wires off the oil and water, did all the indicators which i did the usual blinkers, hi beam, check engine, check battery and check oil, finished plugging in the rest of the wires according to plug and play diagram. Threw it in just to test power and yesssss. Now I just need to clean up the wiring, zip tie a few things and tuck them and get it all mounted in. But I got to figure out how to snake the wiring for the senders into the engine bay. What’s the best way to do so and keep it clean and out of the way from any harm. Also I am swapping out to an electronic ford speedo sender, when I unplug the old unit from the transmission and remove all the old cable is there anything to watch out for? I know the new sender just bolts in the same way and I just need to connect the wiring to the sending unit. Thanks
CFFAA64B-D1AA-4862-A85D-76DF036A9A5F.jpeg
03548D2B-1F87-4AA3-8709-5F4F29379108.jpeg
7307FE81-85DF-434F-964D-9ED26170650E.jpeg
3A368F7C-E039-43EC-B0D1-623CC9BB4F3D.jpeg
C71228A9-1E88-4A8C-AC4B-08018C7D79EF.jpeg