Battery Cables

CarMichael Angelo · Feb 17, 2014

MikeH686 said:
The only reason I would get welding cable would be for the flexibility but to me and my knowledge gauge size determines amp limitations not strand count.

read above^^

Grabbin' Asphalt · Feb 17, 2014

when i think of gauge size, that would be the tube space the pencils and toothpicks fit inside of

madspeed · Feb 17, 2014

hmmmmm

Kumm3 · Feb 17, 2014

madmike1157 said:
The entire reason for the strand count comment was to be sure he got the biggest cable that was the most flexible, while at the same time, being clad in a PVC vinyl overwrap that was rated for exposure to battery acid, oil, gasoline,brake fluid, road salt/grime and a certain amount of heat. Unless you gotta really grimy, oily, 212 degree hot assed garage,...WELDING CABLE clad in some form of rubber sleeve was never intended for that exposure.
So in the end, I don't know whether it has more or less strands than the Advance auto parts bulk cable I was recommending;

My point about strand count ( over simplified for those still in diapers)

Lets take pencils and toothpicks as an example here.

In a tube 1" in diameter,........... jam as many pencils as you can get into it.

Now jam another 1" tube full of tooth picks.

Now take into consideration how much air gap there is between the pencils........then between the toothpicks.

Now using our imaginations,....imagine the wood was actually copper. How much more current would actually course through the toothpick sized copper conductors as a result of there actually being more copper in the 1" tube than in the one filled with pencil sized conductors, and..............................
All that air.......
Between the pencils...........
Not moving one,......single,.........electron.

How can that be? They're both the same size cables.

That's all I'm sayin.

This is all I'm saying....

I work for an electric utility. If strand count was what was important, then tell me, enlighten me, why do our 1/0 cables, which carry 23,000 volts, only have 7 strands?

I see your theory, and thus debunk it.

Higher strand count is only good for flexibility. Thats it and thats all.

madspeed · Feb 17, 2014

7 strands of 8 gauge wire

Grabbin' Asphalt · Feb 17, 2014

scroll to Stranded v.s Solid wire, then scroll down to Duration of Usage

http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/WireCapacityChart.htm

Even Wikipedia (under Forms of Wire) says Higher Stranded wire conducts better than a Solid wire because of the Surface Area. It further states Solid wire is cheaper to manufacture and has more ruggedness, .....so why wouldn't they be used in voltage lines to save $$$ and be durable to weather and be less corossive because of LESS surface area.
Believe what we have here is a misunderstanding between
a " Better Conductor" v.s. "Duration of Usage",

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire

So we have established Higher Stranded wire is in fact a Better conductor and it is more Flexible for precise placement applications.
Now consider yourself - - - - - - - - -> Enlightened
Rock on @madmike1157

84Ttop · Feb 18, 2014

I think I can appropriately use now?!

CarMichael Angelo · Feb 18, 2014

Kumm3 said:
This is all I'm saying....

I work for an electric utility. If strand count was what was important, then tell me, enlighten me, why do our 1/0 cables, which carry 23,000 volts, only have 7 strands?

I see your theory, and thus debunk it.

Higher strand count is only good for flexibility. Thats it and thats all.

So it's you, and the guy that drives the German Chevrolet with the hard heads?

You're using a cable that when bent, stays bent as the end all "proof" of your claim to posses the Golden Child of Conductivity award?
Your electrical utility company is somehow the end all authority based on their usage of a certain cable then?

Your utility company uses 7 conductor cable because it's cheaper to make.
( And now that I think of it, aren't electrical utility companies the same guys that used aluminum wire for however many years as a safe alternative to copper before it was banned)

Just because you can push a bazillion volts through a conductor doesn't take into account how many amps it took to push it through.

And for the record, expert utility company worker, we're not talking about 23,000 volts, we're talking about 12. and at the same time, were not talking about AC either,..were talking DC. However, I'm not sure the last even matters.

The whole crux of the argument is whether or not the advance cable has more strands than a welding cable rated at the same size.

Whether or not you accept that more copper strands in a jacket are more efficient at moving more current at less amperage while maintaining flexibility and durability required for an automotive application is your perogative,...... but please don't cite some bogus example as your "proof" and claim it as a debunk to what I'm saying.

Kumm3 · Feb 18, 2014

Actually I was pointing out that flexibility is the only benefit to the higher strand wires. Conductivity is negligible when you compare a 7 strand to a 19, 37, 49 or eleventy billion strand.

And I'm sorry, but I have a big problem with this statement.

more copper strands in a jacket are more efficient at moving more current at less amperage

Amperage IS current. You can't move more CURRENT with less AMPS, they are the same thing.

All this being said, for automotive use, stranded wire is the best. If you need it to be super flexible, use a higher strand count.

Also, I'm not sure where this comes from:

And now that I think of it, aren't electrical utility companies the same guys that used aluminum wire for however many years as a safe alternative to copper before it was banned

I'm going to assume you are refering to Al wire being used in home wiring. If so, there is no electric utility that I am aware of in the USA that does internal home wiring. So in short, no, they are not the same guys.

madspeed · Feb 18, 2014

Pass the popcorn please

84Ttop · Feb 18, 2014

Extra butter movie style of kettle corn? @madspeed maybe pass the wild mountain gourmet popcorn???

84Ttop · Feb 18, 2014

95opal · Feb 18, 2014

madmike1157 said:
Where in the book of strand count statistics does it say that welding cable has more strands than xyz brand battery cable?

I'd have to say that we're both assuming here. I made my statement based on my usage of the cable from advance.

but......

it wouldn't have mattered how much " research" I would have invested before offerering my suggestion, unless you can show me where all welding cable automatically has a denser wire count than the battery cable I was referring to.

Its common knowledge that welding cable of the same gauge of battery cable has a higher strand count thus why its more flexible than standard battery cable

madmike1157 said:
The entire reason for the strand count comment was to be sure he got the biggest cable that was the most flexible, while at the same time, being clad in a PVC vinyl overwrap that was rated for exposure to battery acid, oil, gasoline,brake fluid, road salt/grime and a certain amount of heat. Unless you gotta really grimy, oily, 212 degree hot assed garage,...WELDING CABLE clad in some form of rubber sleeve was never intended for that exposure.
So in the end, I don't know whether it has more or less strands than the Advance auto parts bulk cable I was recommending;

My point about strand count ( over simplified for those still in diapers)

Lets take pencils and toothpicks as an example here.

In a tube 1" in diameter,........... jam as many pencils as you can get into it.

Now jam another 1" tube full of tooth picks.

Now take into consideration how much air gap there is between the pencils........then between the toothpicks.

Now using our imaginations,....imagine the wood was actually copper. How much more current would actually course through the toothpick sized copper conductors as a result of there actually being more copper in the 1" tube than in the one filled with pencil sized conductors, and..............................
All that air.......
Between the pencils...........
Not moving one,......single,.........electron.

How can that be? They're both the same size cables.

That's all I'm sayin.

Thus contradicting your very first statement
"It's all about strand count when you are buying a cable intended for an automotive application versus a ground cable for a stick welder. The more and finer strands the better in this case"
This is also why welding cable of the same gauge as battery cable has a larger diameter
As to your theory on conductivity that only applies to high frequency ie. radio frequency or microwave and isn't a factor with 12v DC

Kumm3 said:
Actually I was pointing out that flexibility is the only benefit to the higher strand wires. Conductivity is negligible when you compare a 7 strand to a 19, 37, 49 or eleventy billion strand.
.

/\ this

Now the only thing that truly matters is using the proper size for the distance your going.

Grabbin' Asphalt · Feb 18, 2014

madmike1157 said:
It's all about strand count when you are buying a cable intended for an automotive application versus a ground cable for a stick welder. The more and finer strands the better in this case. Advance Auto parts has a roll of 1 ga.It's clear, and you can see the copper wire through it. They'll sell it to you by the foot.

Since we're quoting here, when I read this^^^^, I take it when he says "versus" it's meaning "compared too" which means compared to welding ground cable and it's the darn close or near the same or same (because it does have a high strand count) with BETTER resistance to oil, dirt etc as stated before. He even states the principle of higher strands being better for the application of conductivity. And when looking for an Advanced Auto store that sells it "OFF a ROLL" and "NOT the pre-made ground cable" that certain ones keep referring too. Tells me it's WAY more convenient to find a store and it has ALL the benefits of welding wire, because it's a HIGH strand wire. So WHO would know this piece of nugget, someone with experience that's been there done that and got a t-shirt. Clearly his advice was WAY more helpful to anyone trying to better a project from the begining

Bullitt347 · Feb 18, 2014

I personally have never had a problem with flexibility with any battery cable. Good grief, are we trying to tie figure 8 knots with battery cable? Where in an automotive application does a battery cable make a 180 degree turn virtually upon itself? None that I know of, and I have worked on virtually every kind of car ever built for the last 30 plus years, from 6 volt positive ground to 24 volt diesel applications. I have yet to see where a battery cable off of any parts house shelf could not make the proper routing because of lack of flexibility, given the correct gauge for the application. The current argument is a matter of semantics, just buy the right gauge for the proper distance and amps usage and strand count will mean nothing.

madspeed · Feb 18, 2014

enough strands here?

Grabbin' Asphalt · Feb 18, 2014

stykthyn · Feb 18, 2014

Subways chicken Frito enchilada sub is AMAZING

84Ttop · Feb 18, 2014

Doritos! @TOOLOW91 @MikeH686

Grabbin' Asphalt · Feb 18, 2014

stykthyn said:
Subways chicken Frito enchilada sub is AMAZING

I put those on way before it became popular in todays world...lol

Battery Cables

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

Grabbin' Asphalt

madspeed

Colonel Mustard

Kumm3

madspeed

Colonel Mustard

Grabbin' Asphalt

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

Kumm3

madspeed

Colonel Mustard

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?

95opal

Grabbin' Asphalt

Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

madspeed

Colonel Mustard

Grabbin' Asphalt

stykthyn

I want to measure mine. It doesn't look that tall.

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?

Grabbin' Asphalt

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my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

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They make new pistons every day, so why worry?

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

Colonel Mustard

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