Big Ben vs. Eli: Complete & Unabridged

[Bluffing024]

Big Ben vs. Eli: Complete & Unabridged
Cold, Hard Football Facts for October 24, 2008

By Kerry J. Byrne
Cold, Hard Football Facts potentate of pigskin

We never cease to be amazed by how quickly life changes in the NFL.

Of course, we never cease to be amazed by the bottom of our beer steins, which we stare at 10 or 12 times a day as part of the strict CHFF training regimen. So take our starry-eyed wonderment for what it’s worth.

Last year, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning were the undisputed kings of the NFL – with the only question their respective places in the hierarchy of pro football history.

This year, Brady has gone under the knife and, after this week’s news that his knee is infected, his career is in jeopardy less than a year removed from one of the greatest seasons in league history. Manning, meanwhile, has become yesterday's news: He’s in the midst the worst statistical season (80.0 passer rating) since his rookie year, and his Colts are struggling through a very un-Colts-like 3-3 season.

Enter Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning, the two cornerstones of the 2004 draft who have emerged as probably the marquee quarterbacks of the 2008 season.

Each is a Super Bowl champion and each leads a 5-1 team that has a legitimate shot at winning another Super Bowl. And the two square off Sunday in what may go down as the biggest inter-conference battle of the 2008 season.

The game is generating the same kind of QB-centered hype that had been reserved in recent years for Brady and Eli's older brother.

So the question in today's NFL is this: Who’s the better quarterback? Who was the better first-round selection? Who would you take today? We size up two of the best quarterbacks in the game and find that it’s no contest.

Regular-season performance
There’s really no comparison between the performances of the two players in the regular season. Big Ben boasts better numbers in almost every imaginable passing category, and his team has routinely been better, too.

Eli’s career performance looks like this:

* 1,105 for 1996 (55.4%), 12,774 yards, 6.4 YPA, 85 TD, 68 INT, 74.9 passer rating

Big Ben’s career performance looks like this:

* 1,004 for 1,588 (63.2%), 12,836 yards, 8.1 YPA, 93 TD, 57 INT, 93.0 passer rating

It's pretty cut and dry.

Big Ben has completed a higher percentage of his passes for a much greater average per attempt, for more TDs and fewer INT, and a passer rating that’s nearly 20 points higher than Eli’s.

In fact, as we noted earlier this season, Big Ben’s passing numbers are among the very best in the history of the game. Eli’s have been well below the average passer rating of about 80.0 that defines the modern passing game.

Advantage: Big Ben

Team performances
Big Ben has played for teams that have been consistently better on defense. But Eli has been surrounded by a greater abundance of offensive talent (Tiki Barber, anyone?), while his teammates on the defensive side of the ball haven't been too shabby, either.

At the end of the day, Pittsburgh has performed better as a team, and they've done it in a conference that, until this year, has been much tougher than the NFC.

* The Steelers are 39-15 (.722) in the regular season with Big Ben as a starter.
* The Giants are 31-24 (.564) in the regular season with Eli was a starter.

Advantage: Big Ben

Playoff performances
Manning and Roethlisberger share a unique historic bond: they’re the only quarterbacks in history to lead their teams to three straight road playoff wins, followed by a Super Bowl victory. They did it just two years apart – 2005 for Big Ben, 2007 for Manning.

(The fact that these historic anomalies happened so close together might make a greater statement about the structural changes in the league’s playoff system than it does the quarterbacks themselves, as we’ve discussed before.)

Manning’s Giants have reached the playoffs three times in his four seasons. They’re 4-2 in six playoff games. Manning has performed better than he has in the regular season, but only about average by the standards of an elite QB in the playoffs.

Eli in the playoffs – 98 of 164 (59.8%), 1,131 yards, 6.9 YPA, 8 TD, 5 INT, 84.2 rating

Roethlisberger’s Steelers have also reached the playoffs three times in his four seasons. They’re 5-2 in seven playoff games. But Big Ben's playoff numbers, though better overall than Eli's, have been well below his regular-season production.

Ben in the playoffs – 118 of 189 (62.4%), 1,547 yards, 8.2 YPA, 12 TD, 11 INT, 85.1 rating

Advantage: even

Signature sandwich
This is no contest. Big Ben has a scrumptious sandwich named for him, made at Peppi’s, the Pittsburgh sandwich shop chain.

It has all the prerequisites of a great sandwich: it’s big and meaty and greasy and grand in its awesomeness. More importantly, we have the recipe!

Eli is remarkably deficient in the sandwich department. It’s a condition made all the sadder by the fact that he grew up in a city of great sandwiches, like the po’boy and the muffaleta. We’d expect more from the people of New Orleans. But this has been a deriliction of dietary duty by Eli fans.

Advantage: The Roethlisburger

Signature moment
Big Ben is an elite quarterback by almost any measure. But he hasn’t developed the reputation of an elite QB in the eyes of the general population, which is wooed more by anecdotes than by Cold, Hard Football Facts.

One reason is that there are few signature moments on Big Ben's resume that the pigskin public can instantly recall.

Eli has no such problem. His signature moment is the John Hancock of pigskin declarations, written large enough for the whole world to see.

In Super Bowl XLII, Eli’s Giants knocked off one of the most dominant teams in NFL history, the 18-0 Patriots. And the Giants won that game because Eli pulled off the greatest drive in NFL history.

His 83-yard march against the Patriots was the first and only championship-winning TD drive in NFL history to occur in the last 2 minutes when anything less than TD would mean defeat. (See how the drive compared to the greatest in history here.)

The drive, of course, was punctuated by a play many consider the greatest in Super Bowl history: Manning, under extreme duress, somehow pulled away from three different New England defenders who seemed ready to gobble him up, and then heaved a ball downfield to David Tyree, who made his miracle catch for a first down.

Unless Manning cures cancer one day while dropping back in the pocket, this moment will forever be the one that defines him, and it's one fans will talk about for decades to come.

Advantage: Eli in landslide

Instant impact
Few quarterbacks not named Tom Brady have burst onto the scene with the explosive power of Big Ben. In his rookie year, he led the Steelers to a 15-1 record and an appearance in the AFC title game. It was easily the best performance in history by a team led by a rookie quarterback. He followed it up with a Super Bowl victory in his sophomore season, supplanting Brady as the youngest QB to win a Super Bowl.

Manning stumbled and bumbled his way to quarterbacking elitism. He didn’t start until the 10th game of his rookie year, and lost his first six starts, before earning a victory in the 2004 finale, a 28-24 win over Dallas.

As recently as the end of the 2007 regular season (during which Manning posted a below average 74.0 passer rating), nobody considered Eli an elite NFL quarterback. In fact, check out this story from the NY Daily News published late last season: the Giants, read the headline, are “stuck with Manning … like it or not.”

The truth is that, just a year ago, four years into his career, nobody considered Eli anything but an average quarterback. He rose to elite status only through the performance of his Giants in the 2007 playoffs.

Advantage: Big Ben

Value
Eli Manning was selected by the Giants with the No. 1 pick in the 2004 draft. And the Giants paid a hefty price to get him.

The pick was originally held by San Diego. But after Eli refused to play for the Chargers, San Diego was forced to sell him off to the highest bidder. So the Giants sent the Chargers their first pick in the 2004 draft (No. 4 overall, which San Diego used to take Philip Rivers), along with their third-round pick of 2004, and their first-round and fifth-round picks in 2005. Then, of course, they paid Eli No. 1 pick money.

The Giants could have sat at No. 4, kept all those additional draft picks, and taken Roethlisberger, who Pittsburgh grabbed with the No. 11 overall pick.

Advantage: Roethlisberger

Head to head
Eli and Big Ben have battled once before, back when they were relative nobodies in their rookie seasons of 2004.

Roethlisberger got the better of the day, as his Steelers won 33-30 on their way to a 15-1 season. Manning, meanwhile, was making just the fifth start of his career. But it was his breakout performance, as Eli completed more than 50 percent of his passes for the first time, topped a 100 passer rating for the first time, and had his first multi-TD passing day.

Eli – 16 of 23 (69.6), 182 yards, 7.9 YPA, 2 TD, 1 INT, 103.9 passer rating.

Big Ben put up bigger numbers but a lower passer rating, though he had started every game since Week 3 of his rookie year.

Big Ben – 18 of 28 (64.3%), 316 yards, 11.3 YPA, 1 TD, 2 INT, 84.8 passer rating

But when push came to shove, Big Ben did the shoving. Roethlisberger led the Steelers to 10 fourth-quarter points, highlighted by the game-winning 67-yard drive in the fourth quarter. Big Ben went 4 for 4 for 59 yards on the critical drive, to set up the decisive TD run by Jerome Bettis.

Advantage: Roethlisberger

THE FINAL VERDICT
Weigh all the evidence and one thing becomes clear: Big Ben quickly established himself as a winner in the NFL and he's put up historic passing numbers. Eli was considered nothing more than an ordinary QB, even by his own fans, as recently as last year, and his numbers are pedestrian. Big Ben's teams have consistently been better, and he even has a tasty sandwich named in his honor.

Eli boasts the signature moment that fans will remember for years to come. But anecdotes and Cold, Hard Football Facts don't always see eye to eye. Anecdotes may not always be wrong, but Cold, Hard Football Facts are always right.

So, in this instance, the answer is obvious: Big Ben wins the battle of the Class of 2004.

But the best part is that we may get a chance to judge these two marquee performers again on February 1 in Tampa.

Source: Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Big Ben vs. Eli: Complete & Unabridged

 

[wht93gtEd]

WOW...that sounds like it came from "PittsburghSteelersOMGILoveThemAndWantTOHaveTheirBabies.com"....but, hey, we all root for our teams...

Head to head
Eli and Big Ben have battled once before, back when they were relative nobodies in their rookie seasons of 2004.

Roethlisberger got the better of the day, as his Steelers won 33-30 on their way to a 15-1 season. Manning, meanwhile, was making just the fifth start of his career. But it was his breakout performance, as Eli completed more than 50 percent of his passes for the first time, topped a 100 passer rating for the first time, and had his first multi-TD passing day.

Eli – 16 of 23 (69.6), 182 yards, 7.9 YPA, 2 TD, 1 INT, 103.9 passer rating.

Big Ben put up bigger numbers but a lower passer rating, though he had started every game since Week 3 of his rookie year.

Big Ben – 18 of 28 (64.3%), 316 yards, 11.3 YPA, 1 TD, 2 INT, 84.8 passer rating

But when push came to shove, Big Ben did the shoving. Roethlisberger led the Steelers to 10 fourth-quarter points, highlighted by the game-winning 67-yard drive in the fourth quarter. Big Ben went 4 for 4 for 59 yards on the critical drive, to set up the decisive TD run by Jerome Bettis.

Advantage: Roethlisberger​

I think that could use some updating after last nights game...something about 5 sacks and 4 interceptions would sound real nice in there.

What a great game; the ups and downs, big plays...it was a nail-biter for sure!

 

[mrvax]

The controversy really depends on whether you value "stats" more or "that something extra" that wins close games.

Both QB's play in very different systems. Pittsburgh uses a run oriented less complex for a QB than the Giants.

Eli showed the way he is better than Big Ben last night, in Roethlisberger's house no less.
Eli will be fine. Ben will be fine. I know who I want back there in a big game situation.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

If I had to pick which I would prefer to run the Colts I would pick Big Ben. His size and arm strength assuming he could get in synch with Wayne could be dynamic.

 

[Mike97gt]

WOW...that sounds like it came from "PittsburghSteelersOMGILoveThemAndWantTOHaveTheirBabies.com"....but, hey, we all root for our teams...

Head to head
Eli and Big Ben have battled once before, back when they were relative nobodies in their rookie seasons of 2004.

Roethlisberger got the better of the day, as his Steelers won 33-30 on their way to a 15-1 season. Manning, meanwhile, was making just the fifth start of his career. But it was his breakout performance, as Eli completed more than 50 percent of his passes for the first time, topped a 100 passer rating for the first time, and had his first multi-TD passing day.

Eli – 16 of 23 (69.6), 182 yards, 7.9 YPA, 2 TD, 1 INT, 103.9 passer rating.

Big Ben put up bigger numbers but a lower passer rating, though he had started every game since Week 3 of his rookie year.

Big Ben – 18 of 28 (64.3%), 316 yards, 11.3 YPA, 1 TD, 2 INT, 84.8 passer rating

But when push came to shove, Big Ben did the shoving. Roethlisberger led the Steelers to 10 fourth-quarter points, highlighted by the game-winning 67-yard drive in the fourth quarter. Big Ben went 4 for 4 for 59 yards on the critical drive, to set up the decisive TD run by Jerome Bettis.

Advantage: Roethlisberger​

I think that could use some updating after last nights game...something about 5 sacks and 4 interceptions would sound real nice in there.

What a great game; the ups and downs, big plays...it was a nail-biter for sure!

That site is boston based was accused of being a patriot homer site during the SB runs not at all a steelers fan site..

That website coldhardfootballfacts.com is one of the best football websites there is.. The quality stats stuff on that site is great work.. They smoke the so call "experts" on ESPN and other fraud outlets on everything from predicting games to analyst Jaws and jimmy johnson are the only TV guys that get any respect from me..

I am surprised you need heard of that site.. you should go there and tell your friends the quality stats stuff is great and even the power rankings is fraud free..

For example they started the season with the giants #1 and pats #2 until proven otherwise.. where the fraud sites all were screaming cowhoes



I am not a fan of either the giants or the steelers but at this point I would still take big ben over eli

BTW one game does not make one qb better than the other.. I have seen brady throw 4 picks in a game a few times ( every season except for last he had one 4 pick game) and look horrible, and I will say with certainty the QB on the other sideline in those games is not better than brady.

 

[Venom351R]

Id take Ben over Eli any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I still cant belive that there are times when Eli gets to the line and still does not know what to do as seen in this weeks past game. He tried to call a time out but you would think that after playing for 4 years he would realize that you cant call a back to back time out. I still do and always will see him as the deer caught in the headlights and the confused little kid who pouts when his toys are taken away

 

[mrvax]

Millions of people saw Tom Brady's "deer in the headlights" look last Feb 3rd during that 4th quarter. It happens to the best of 'em.

 

[Venom351R]

Millions of people saw Tom Brady's "deer in the headlights" look last Feb 3rd during that 4th quarter. It happens to the best of 'em.

Im not talking about a few plays of one game, Im talking about a reoccurring perpetual problem.

But if you want to say Tom Brady a Superbowl MVP, League MVP, NFL record(s) holding QB suffers from "deer in the head lights syndrome" Then by all means its your opinion

 

[mrvax]

Redline, you have to be imagining this crap.
I watch/read hours of NFL programs and have never heard your fantasy stuff about Eli made by any commentator.
Like I told you last year, most likely someone like Eli hurt you bad in your past. You have to learn to get over it and move on.
Good luck.

 

[Venom351R]

Redline, you have to be imagining this crap.
I watch/read hours of NFL programs and have never heard your fantasy stuff about Eli made by any commentator.
Like I told you last year, most likely someone like Eli hurt you bad in your past. You have to learn to get over it and move on.
Good luck.

No Mrvax thats not it, your wrong once again but thats not really the point but here is. I just dont like the guy, never did. Never saw him as a team leader, still dont and never will. I'll never consider him an "eliete" QB in the NFL.

I dont really care what the "experts" have to say about Eli, since when has there opinion been woth anything more then a piss bucket?

 

[mrvax]

No Mrvax thats not it, your wrong once again but thats not really the point but here is. I just dont like the guy, never did. Never saw him as a team leader, still dont and never will. I'll never consider him an "eliete" QB in the NFL.

I dont really care what the "experts" have to say about Eli, since when has there opinion been woth anything more then a piss bucket?

Their opinion is often used to refute outrageous claims by fans, morons and dolts. For example, if someone says to you that Brady has a tendancy to hold the ball to long but that comment has never been made by a professional sports journalist anywhere, rest assured you can conclude the person who made the claim is wrong.

How many "elite" QB's are there in the NFL? What makes one "elite" and not another? What is the cutoff point?

I found something for you:

 

[Red_LX]

I'd like to see Pittsburgh's offensive line actually let Ben do his job...instead of allowing him to get run over time and time again.

They showed a stat during that game for number of lifetime sacks of Ben, Eli, and a few other guys...Ben's number was miles above everyone else's. It was nuts.

 

[Crzyhrse]

I'd like to see Pittsburgh's offensive line actually let Ben do his job...instead of allowing him to get run over time and time again.

They showed a stat during that game for number of lifetime sacks of Ben, Eli, and a few other guys...Ben's number was miles above everyone else's. It was nuts.

I only see about 5 Pittsburgh games each year on tv, but this year I've noticed that alot. He's running for his life every other play. If the O line actually gave him some time to get a play developing they would be crushing these teams. Nobody's safe. Have'nt followed Tennessee at all but have they really played anyone yet? Or are they just a paper tiger?

 

[mrvax]

I'd like to see Pittsburgh's offensive line actually let Ben do his job...instead of allowing him to get run over time and time again.

They showed a stat during that game for number of lifetime sacks of Ben, Eli, and a few other guys...Ben's number was miles above everyone else's. It was nuts.

Roethlisberger holds the ball way too long. It's not his oline's fault. Did you see last week's game? It was a perfect example. Time and again, I see him let himself get creamed back there instead of throwing the ball away when there's nothing open. His offensive line is better than average.

Watch closely next game. QB's are usually provided 3 to 3.5 seconds. Not 5-6 that Ben wants.

 

[Venom351R]

Their opinion is often used to refute outrageous claims by fans, morons and dolts. For example, if someone says to you that Brady has a tendancy to hold the ball to long but that comment has never been made by a professional sports journalist anywhere, rest assured you can conclude the person who made the claim is wrong.

How many "elite" QB's are there in the NFL? What makes one "elite" and not another? What is the cutoff point?

I found something for you:

If anyone says that about Brady I dont turn to the "experts" as back up to my rebuttle, I state accomplishments that have been made by him that can not be refuted b/c they are black and white facts. I dont need any "expect" to fall back on, but if you need those to support any of your claims b/c you dont have enough to offer about eli just on his own then by all means quote away.

As far as an Elite QB in the NFL there is no set standard that anyone reach's to achieve it. Its just something that some QB's have and some dont, they are a cut above everyone else. I would not put Eli in that category, winning a Superbowl does not put anyone in that category but QB's I would consider to be elite would be Peyton, Brady, Favre, Young, Montana, Aikman.

Love how your so insecure about eli that you have to post pictures of him to bring him up some. If you like I can pull out the 3 pictures of Brady holding the Vince Lombardi trophy but you probably dont want to go down that road do you?

 

[mrvax]

I would not put Eli in that category, winning a Superbowl does not put anyone in that category but QB's I would consider to be elite would be Peyton, Brady, Favre, Young, Montana, Aikman.

I would not yet put Eli in that "elite" catagory either. Maybe someday.

 

[Mike97gt]

Redline, you have to be imagining this crap.
I watch/read hours of NFL programs and have never heard your fantasy stuff about Eli made by any commentator.
Like I told you last year, most likely someone like Eli hurt you bad in your past. You have to learn to get over it and move on.
Good luck.

You have way to much confidence in the commentators.. Most of those guys are laughable the former players tend to be the worst.. Well except for jaws, he tells it like it is.

A lot of these other guys follow the agenda of the media company they work for.. And building up the mannings is very high on the NFL priority list, and I don't blame them.. the whole brother thing and one of them plays in the largest media market in the world so the priority is to build up the mannings.

Pro sports is not pure.. it's all about advertising dollars and protecting the NFL brand name.

For example of how bad these commentators are..


One patriots game earlier this year one of these clowns were commenting on how poised cassel looked in the pocket and this was after many missed wide open guys and several sacks where his first read was not there and he panicked..

 

[Back in Black]

Roethlisberger holds the ball way too long. It's not his oline's fault. Did you see last week's game? It was a perfect example. Time and again, I see him let himself get creamed back there instead of throwing the ball away when there's nothing open. His offensive line is better than average.

Watch closely next game. QB's are usually provided 3 to 3.5 seconds. Not 5-6 that Ben wants.

He does hold it a bit long but I've seen every game this year and in pretty much the past ten years. The O line is horrible. Ben is running for his life pretty much everytime he touches the ball. He had time thursday against cinci and the second half of the SD game. Thats about it. How parker or Moore can muster a 100 yd game is mind blowing. I could only imagine if Ben had the time Romo has. The stats would be rediculous.