C6ZO6

Why does the GT even come up in Z06 threads? One car is $70k and the other is $165k+. The fact that the Z06 can match the GT in performance is awesome.

mattkimsey said:

Why does the GT even come up in Z06 threads? One car is $70k and the other is $165k+. The fact that the Z06 can match the GT in performance is awesome.

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Flagship Performance Vehicle vs Flagship Performance Vehicle

Why does the Z06 come up in Mustang threads? The fact that a GT500 can keep up with a Z06 (and smoke one in a straight line, with just a little love from KB, come January), is awesome.

geoffsgt said:

Flagship Performance Vehicle vs Flagship Performance Vehicle

Why does the Z06 come up in Mustang threads? The fact that a GT500 can keep up with a Z06 (and smoke one in a straight line, with just a little love from KB, come January), is awesome.

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What's your idea of keeping up? A stock GT500 does not keep up with a stock C6 ZO6.

U.M.

Yeah, no sh**.... And I always have to toss in the B.S. flag when somebody pushes the silly argument across that

"with just this mod and that, this can smoke that..."

Get a grip, TWO can play at that game. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If it's o.k. for the GT500 guy to bolt on some mods to go faster, then to be honest, you've got to allow for the Z06 guy to choose and install some mods of his own within a similar budget. Otherwise, you're just sounding like your average dipshat Civic-building ricer who thinks that if he can make his 4-banger run with a GT Mustang with modifications, that it means something, not taking into account that if the GT Mustang owner goes to the same amount of trouble, the Honda's doors will still be blown to the weeds.

For every one of us who spends $1500 on pulleys, processors and cold-air kits... You've got to be prepared for the Z06 guy who's got 100-150 h.p. of N2O available at the press of a button. And then if you want to install full-length headers and exhaust on your Shelby, the 'Vette gets the same as well. You're going to have a TOUGH time catching up to his pace, as the target keeps getting quicker as you get quicker. And don't give me the nitrous is cheating nonsense, it's effectively doing the same damn thing that supercharging or turbocharging is.... sneaking more oxygen into the cylinders to be mixed with more fuel. If you find it ethical to boost-up your Shelby with aftermarket tricks, all you're doing is finding ways to get more oxygen into the mill. Same difference.

In any case, It will remain to be seen as to whether, equal dollars spent on mods, a GT500 could ever "catch up to and pass" a C6 Z06.

I will submit that the Terminator Cobras certainly could be made much faster with a small amount of dough... But there hasn't been enough drag-strip results that I've seen yet on the GT500 to make any blind assumptions, especially considering the porkiness of this car.

geoffsgt said:

Flagship Performance Vehicle vs Flagship Performance Vehicle

Why does the Ford GT come up in Mustang threads? The fact that a GT500 can keep up with a Ford GT (and smoke one in a straight line, with just a little love from KB, come January), is awesome.

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Now see how crazy that sounds

The C6Z isn't a drag car. It's a world beater on a budget in STOCK trim.

No matter how much HP a GT500 can be modded to, it wont run low 11's STOCK, it won't run 7:42 around Nurburgring STOCK, it won't go ~200mph STOCK, it won't pull 1g+ STOCK, it won't be as fuel efficient STOCK, it won't have 50:50 weight distribution STOCK, it won't weigh 3050lbs STOCK, it won't have a world class suspension STOCK, it won't have the low center of gravity STOCK, it won't be as aero dynamic STOCK, it won't have the steering feel STOCK, it won't be as tossable STOCK, the brakes won't be as good STOCK, it won't have all this a 100k mile warranty STOCK.....

Yes, I'm nit-picking, but C6 steering feel is just about the lousiest numbest dullest there is in the sportscar world. That's the one thing that has screamed at me in the past two generations of Corvette, C5 & C6, pathetic steering feel and precision.

But when it comes to steering, it takes points of reference to really notice it. Spend some time in a Porsche, and then take the wheel of a C6, even the Z06, and you feel like you're driving a 1967 Bluebird school bus as far as the wheel communication...

I would hope to hell that my Shelby has better stock steering feel than my friend's Z06 I drove last week (I didn't say anything to him, he was feeling proud, and in most every other respect the car rocked..)

RICKS said:

Yes, I'm nit-picking, but C6 steering feel is just about the lousiest numbest dullest there is in the sportscar world. That's the one thing that has screamed at me in the past two generations of Corvette, C5 & C6, pathetic steering feel and precision.

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say the GT500 steering feel won't touch the 'Vette. The lack of feel you may notice could be due to the runcraps - not really the best tire for such a great car. I'm pretty sure that every Porsche comes with summer tires or atleast has them as an option.

I don't think it's the runflats whatsoever, and I highly doubt you'd get 911-stype steering in a 'Vette just by changing to like tires.... But we're grasping at straws here... Let's just say I don't like C6 steering, and most automotive writers seem to agree with me, as that's one of the few things that the Corvette commonly gets panned on.

Not a subject I want to subject ya'll to the torturous boredom of...

All I was saying was, if the GT is being ruled out of the competition vs the Vette because of price, then the Vette should be ruled out of competition vs the GT500.

Personally, it's not what your car ran stock, and it's not how much you paid for your car stock, and it's not how much you put into your car, and it's not how much your car dyno's for, and it's not what other car's you've beaten, and it's not what cars people with cars like yours have beaten. It's who gets to the finish line first, each race. That is all you will ever have over someone else.

RICKS said:

Get a grip, TWO can play at that game. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If it's o.k. for the GT500 guy to bolt on some mods to go faster, then to be honest, you've got to allow for the Z06 guy to choose and install some mods of his own within a similar budget. Otherwise, you're just sounding like your average dipshat Civic-building ricer who thinks that if he can make his 4-banger run with a GT Mustang with modifications, that it means something, not taking into account that if the GT Mustang owner goes to the same amount of trouble, the Honda's doors will still be blown to the weeds.

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So if I'm racing a Ferrari Enzo, and have put $50k into my car in both horsepower and handling, then it's only fair that the Enzo also has $50k worth of mods? I'd argue that your view is in fact the only UNfair comparison you can make. There are 2 ways to look at this: 1) as stated above, that nothing matters but the results in you vs him at that time on that track; 2) if my car is worth $45k, and your car is worth $75k, and I can whoop your cars ass with anything less than $30,001 in mods, then my car is better. And it makes it that much sweeter that my $75k car looks and sounds better than yours while doing it.

Stop the stock for stock argument. Why are you racing your car stock? If your dealer could prove you were, they wouldn't replace the **** you break.

^ A new Chevy Cobalt SS S/C cost $21,000. If a person puts $10,000 into it and mutilates a GT500 around the track and in the 1/4 -- does that make the Cobalt better?

There's a TON more to cars than what crosses a flippin dragstrip finish line first, so don't tell me a car is "better" because you got there cheaper, that's such a shallow and one-dimensional outlook. If that's the case, who the hell needs a $45K Shelby when you could drop a crate 302 in a gutted Pinto with an AOD, 8.8 and some subframes and a bottle, and obliterate all-comers??

Secondly, an Enzo is a million-flippin-plus dollar car. Good grief, if you're going to make an analogy, keep it within the realm of the Milky Way.

In terms of price, yep, the Z06 is more expensive, but you're getting so much more than just a motor at that price, it's an aluminum space-frame sports car, the Mustang is a distant derivative of a shelved Lincoln sedan. Back when I raced my '88 5.0, Corvettes had radical chassis, and my car was a sporty looking Fairmont. All I'm saying is you get what you pay for, and it's inane to think you're getting more for less just because it runs a time... You could make your Shelby run nines, and you still wouldn't have a Corvette, you'd just have a damn fast Mustang. There is a difference, and most Mustang owners understand that. With Mustangs, you get alot of speed and performance in an inexpensive platform that is user-friendly.

I don't understand the desire or the EXPECTATION to compare Mustangs to Corvettes, or to delusionally think they are better performance cars if you can just make it go in a straight line a bit faster than a Corvette.

It'd be nice if Ford would make a real competitor to the Corvette someday, but given their current state of finance, that's not happening... In the meantime, magazines will continue to place the Shelby next to the Vette, and Ford loyalists will continue to find some way to call the car superior by virtue of being cheaper. Cheapness means nothing. VALUE, that's what you're looking for. If it was all about price, and nothing more, as I said, let's all get busy pulling Pintos and Vegas and Demons out of junkyards, add a cheap crate 302 or 350 or 360 respectively, and go out hunting Enzos with a can of Bud inbetween our legs and our hats on a tilt like K.Fed....

mattkimsey said:

^ A new Chevy Cobalt SS S/C cost $21,000. If a person puts $10,000 into it and mutilates a GT500 around the track and in the 1/4 -- does that make the Cobalt better?

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You illustrate my point beautifully, and in alot fewer words. Touche'

Yeah, it does make that Cobalt better than the GT500

geoffsgt said:

Yeah, it does make that Cobalt better than the GT500

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O.K., thanks for the clarity, which is only further enhanced by the fact you're best time is a 14.41 at 98 with wide-wheels and Nittos, which is exactly what I used to run back in 1988 in my 225 h.p. 3,500 lb GT convert with nothing more than a $129.95 h-pipe and K&N on sorry-a$$ gatorbacks....

This debate clearly isn't going to go anywhere.... I'll be back with my Pinto, and then we'll REALLY see who's got the bossest car on Stangnet!!!!

RICKS said:

There's a TON more to cars than what crosses a flippin dragstrip finish line first, so don't tell me a car is "better" because you got there cheaper, that's such a shallow and one-dimensional outlook. If that's the case, who the hell needs a $45K Shelby when you could drop a crate 302 in a gutted Pinto with an AOD, 8.8 and some subframes and a bottle, and obliterate all-comers??

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Which is why nobody ever compares their 302-powered Pinto's to brand new cars, and why you haven't seen any mentioned here...

There IS a ton more to cars. I didn't say drag strip. "Finish line" was a metephore for any kind of test, really. Even visual (you win trophies at car shows, too). When comparing similar cars (new performance car vs new performance car, in this case), it's not unreasonable to narrow the field down to the aspects that make a performance car a performance car.

RICKS said:

Secondly, an Enzo is a million-flippin-plus dollar car. Good grief, if you're going to make an analogy, keep it within the realm of the Milky Way.

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An analogy is an analogy, nomatter how exagerated it is. The exageration helps get the point across. There's a large amount of exclusivity that comes with the Enzo's price tag... ignore that, and take the analogy, not the real life example, for what it's worth.

RICKS said:

I don't understand the desire or the EXPECTATION to compare Mustangs to Corvettes, or to delusionally think they are better performance cars if you can just make it go in a straight line a bit faster than a Corvette.

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Isn't this the point I was getting at the whole time? (answer: yes, it is)

RICKS said:

It'd be nice if Ford would make a real competitor to the Corvette someday, but given their current state of finance, that's not happening... In the meantime, magazines will continue to place the Shelby next to the Vette, and Ford loyalists will continue to find some way to call the car superior by virtue of being cheaper. Cheapness means nothing. VALUE, that's what you're looking for.

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If Ford did produce a competitor to the Corvette, it would cost $75000. They won't do it - it wouldn't sell very well, because that isn't the market Ford has been working for for the past 100 years. And THAT is why stock vs stock comparisons of these 2 cars, and any cars separated by this price margin, are practically pointless.

If your going to compare stock vs stock, compare best from company A vs best from company B ("flagship vs flagship"). The millionaire Chevy fans will still buy Corvettes over GT's, and the millionare Ford fans will still buy GT's over Corvettes.

Unless there are new tests proving otherwise, the Ford GT still beats the Corvette Z06. If it's so close, why didn't Chevy just bump the price up a few grand, and give it that extra umph to be the king of the hill?

PS.
I have a feeling (well, honestly, I know for a fact) that if Chevy comes out with this new Corvette above the Z06 that I've read about, Chevy will take the top of the mountain. Just not yet.

PPS.
Bowtie lovers go home! :SNSign:

RICKS said:

O.K., thanks for the clarity, which is only further enhanced by the fact you're best time is a 14.40 at 98.8 with wide-wheels and Nittos, which is exactly what I used to run back in 1988 in my 225 h.p. 3,500 lb GT convert with nothing more than a $129.95 h-pipe and K&N on sorry-a$$ gatorbacks....

This debate clearly isn't going to go anywhere.... I'm off to eat Sushi and drink a Martini!!

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Thanks, it was my first time at the track, ever, with high humidity, slowshifting cuz my friend said I should take it easy.

Valid point though. +10 points

Technically the Z06 is "king of the hill" now. The GTs last year was 2006, we are well into the '07 model year.

The most recent comparison I've seen was Car and Driver's lightning lap: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/11755/the-lightning-lap-ll4-120000-240000-page7.html

GT ran the course in 3:00.7 sec and the Z06 ran 3:01.1 sec -- that's as close as it gets.

Its all about perspective. I love my 05 Stang, but to be honest, when Im in town in traffic I miss my $12,000 5 speed ZX3.

A $21,000 Cobalt would be a great car in the city zipping in and out of traffic.

So much of this is just the BS wow factor. Im seriously considering a return to the ZX3 and a badass motorcycle for my transportation needs. I can have both for less than a 07 Mustang GT.

I still like the GT500, but when Im ready its going to be a Vette, bang for the buck, they are hard to beat.

geoffsgt said:

All I was saying was, if the GT is being ruled out of the competition vs the Vette because of price, then the Vette should be ruled out of competition vs the GT500.

Personally, it's not what your car ran stock, and it's not how much you paid for your car stock, and it's not how much you put into your car, and it's not how much your car dyno's for, and it's not what other car's you've beaten, and it's not what cars people with cars like yours have beaten. It's who gets to the finish line first, each race. That is all you will ever have over someone else.



So if I'm racing a Ferrari Enzo, and have put $50k into my car in both horsepower and handling, then it's only fair that the Enzo also has $50k worth of mods? I'd argue that your view is in fact the only UNfair comparison you can make. There are 2 ways to look at this: 1) as stated above, that nothing matters but the results in you vs him at that time on that track; 2) if my car is worth $45k, and your car is worth $75k, and I can whoop your cars ass with anything less than $30,001 in mods, then my car is better. And it makes it that much sweeter that my $75k car looks and sounds better than yours while doing it.

Stop the stock for stock argument. Why are you racing your car stock? If your dealer could prove you were, they wouldn't replace the **** you break.

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You've obviously got the wrong car and are in the wrong forum... Come over to the 5.0 forums