competing with an LS1

Snowman76 · Sep 25, 2006

I am new to the realm of mustangs, quite honestly I was always a GM fan and still am, but something about the mustang calls to me. I have this problem, me and all of my old high school friends have always had semi comparable cars and then it is a never ending competion to have the best and more importantly the fastest car(1/4 mile). Well it finally happened that one of us took the leap to a far supirior car, a 99 LS1 Trans Am, gourgous car with very low miles. Thinking conservativly I have at least 8K to drop and need to find a car that will at least be close to competing with his. I am just curious how far behind I would be starting if I got a 99+ GT mustang 5 speed. Will i be spending a fortune to match his stock? Cause he is already ordering parts, he is fresh back from iraq and full of combat pay. Oh yeah, and i have to be able to blow away an LT1 Camaro, I won't loose to daddys car.

afterburn · Sep 25, 2006

I also have GM roots. I've owned 3 F-bodies in the past, and was looking for an LS1 when I found my Mustang. I have an automatic and ran consistent 14.4s stock. The LS1 is rated at 13.3 stock...and I believe the New Edge (99-04) Mustangs are rated at 14.2 with a manual.

One of my best friends has a 2000 Camaro SS (no real performance upgrades over the Z/28). Supposedly these cars are way underrated in HP, as they frequently put 310 to the wheels on dynos. The New Edge stang is also underrated as they put 245 to the wheels...but that's still a big advantage. The stang is a few hundred pounds lighter I think, but the LS1 is formidable.

Power-wise, I only have my CAI and catback installed (the rest of the non-suspension mods get installed in a week), and I lose to LS1s. However, racing LT1s is a dead heat. I mean, way even. They are rated at 13.8, but I've never seen it happen. Every race has come down to driver, and I've raced at least half a dozen. I actually only lost to one, and by maybe six inches.

With my boltons, a torque converter (I have an auto), and an SCT Xcal 2, I'm hoping for 300 to the wheels. That should hang with a stock LS1....

My friend's 2000 SS has a lid, LS6 intake, long tube headers, o/r y pipe, SLP Loudmouth, 3.73s, and some suspension stuff done to it. He dynoed at 331 to the rear wheels and runs 13.1 - but at 111. With drag radials (or dare I say someone who can launch better), it's a solid 12 second car.

Also, LS1s like nitrous, but modulars like boost...well, to kinda sum it up: If you're going all out with your car, either will work. But for stock or bolt on power, the LS1 is gonna win.

But I'm planning way long term, and I like the modular better.

blackink00 · Sep 25, 2006

first afterburn, your never gonna hit 300rwhp without cams and next to snow. the ls1 is an awsome engine, thats about where it ends. the car sucks to drive cause of the long hood and the seat is basically the floor. if you can stand working on a camaro then get that but they are by far a huge PITA to work on. the mustang is good all around and with boost or n2o youll gain a good amount of HP. the LS1 doesnt respond well to boost or n2o cause i think theyre kinda high compression. to sum it up, ls1 pain to work on but motor is awesome........modular is good with boost but there is no replacement for displacement.

ProCharger GT · Sep 26, 2006

NA power is hard to get on the 4.6, so get a blower or a turbo kit and have at the LS1.

hotmustang331 · Sep 26, 2006

I shouldnt have a problem with LS1s LOL. Yes mod motors LOVE boost!

BUT they can run excellent all motor to...throw some cams in and full boltons and you can beat stock LS1s. About even with LID/CATBACK LS1s.

But throw a cam in the LS1s and hello upper 300s-400RWHP. I have a friend with an 00 C5 vette (LS1)...makes 400RWHP with a cam and boltons.

stangGT97 · Sep 26, 2006

How about the TRMIN8R guy, with the LS1 SS camaro. It has bolt ons, cam, exhaust, and a 200 shot (I believe). He beats or stays dead even with an 800rwhp Hellion turbo cobra... now tell me the LS1 doesn't like the spray

afterburn · Sep 26, 2006

LS1s do love spray...I've seen that firsthand. They run 10.5:1 compression, I believe; and are not good boost motors stock.

Not to start (or continue) a seperate argument, but I've seen 290 to the rear wheels of an automatic '02 GT with boltons and a chip. I'm hoping that the torque converter combined with the SCT will give me some extra drivetrain efficiency and I'll see the full 300. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. Either way, I'm still gonna like it.

Dusstbuster · Sep 26, 2006

stangGT97 said:
How about the TRMIN8R guy, with the LS1 SS camaro. It has bolt ons, cam, exhaust, and a 200 shot (I believe). He beats or stays dead even with an 800rwhp Hellion turbo cobra... now tell me the LS1 doesn't like the spray

A 200 shot is quite the shot though too....

stangGT97 · Sep 26, 2006

Dusstbuster said:
A 200 shot is quite the shot though too....

haha yeah it is, but so isnt 800rwhp out of a TT 4.6...

Dusstbuster · Sep 26, 2006

true true, stupid LS1's and their ability to not blow up under high HP loads.

stangGT97 · Sep 26, 2006

Dusstbuster said:
true true, stupid LS1's and their ability to not blow up under high HP loads.

right but powershift them once or launch w/ a high stall on sticky tires and then go collect the pieces of the rear end that you leave behind... its a little bit of an exaggeration, but just showing that every car has a weak point. except the civic

Dusstbuster · Sep 26, 2006

stangGT97 said:
right but powershift them once or launch w/ a high stall on sticky tires and then go collect the pieces of the rear end that you leave behind... its a little bit of an exaggeration, but just showing that every car has a weak point. except the civic

bah, the civic is one big weak point

DocG · Sep 26, 2006

You want a car that will beat the LS1 for 8k.....buy an old big block muscle car built for the street/strip. I've seen a bunch for that price range with 500hp. Not even a contest then.

speedingpenguin · Sep 26, 2006

Carry a prayer book with you, then when you get walked by your buddy's LS1, whip it open and pray god doesnt send you straight to hell for even trying to race him.

But seriously. I am coming from a Lid, catback, ported TB LS1 trans am, and that thing was a beast compared to my 2001 GT. It trapped 107, whereas my GT trapped 98 best, and its got intake, ehaust, and gears.

So the only way you will beat an LS1 for 8k, is find a stripper LS1 Z28 for like 6, and spend 2k on Lid, Full exhaust, tune, and port your throttlebody. Then if you have $500 left over buy a 100 wet shot.

BurningRubber · Sep 26, 2006

I think I want to go drive an LS1 Maro/TA now. I cant stand the suspense of them being able to blow the Stangs doors off. To me, my car feels pretty quick. I guess its not though.

Snowman76 · Sep 26, 2006

Yea, I pretty much know that i won't be faster than him I just need a car that will not be embarassing next to his. Like my current 95 9C1 caprice. I love the car to death and the motor is extra strong but the car is not appealing to most(kinda grannyish) and even with an LT1 that is pushing close to 250HP and a boatload of torque at the wheels its not real excited about pushing a car that weighs more than a freight train. rusting quater panels and other developing rust spots were the nail on the coffin for my caprice if that wasn't a problem I wouldn't even be car shopping cause for 8k i could continue building that fat a** to move.

Snowman76 · Sep 26, 2006

BurningRubber said:
I think I want to go drive an LS1 Maro/TA now. I cant stand the suspense of them being able to blow the Stangs doors off. To me, my car feels pretty quick. I guess its not though.

I drove it yesterday, and OMG. It effing rips. Its a little cramped for my taste I am about 6'3 I couldn't imagine being much taller and fitting in there. I would put up with it if i could afford one. Hands down the fastest car I have ever got behind the wheel of.
My cousins got one that runs low 12's N/A all motor , I can't convince him to give me the keys for a test drive. He has had nitrous on it for a couple years but can't bring himself to drop the hammer, he is affraid of the consiquences which is understandable. That ****s not going on any of my cars till i win the lottery or something so i can afford the mistake.

myponyrocks · Sep 26, 2006

afterburn said:
LS1s do love spray...I've seen that firsthand. They run 10.5:1 compression, I believe; and are not good boost motors stock.

Not to start (or continue) a seperate argument, but I've seen 290 to the rear wheels of an automatic '02 GT with boltons and a chip. I'm hoping that the torque converter combined with the SCT will give me some extra drivetrain efficiency and I'll see the full 300. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. Either way, I'm still gonna like it.

Theres no way. I have FULL bolt ons. (No cams I don't count them as bolt on any way) and Dyno mid 260s on a Dynojet. There is no way in hell a stock block 2v4.6 is getting 300 to the wheels with bolt ons. Cobra/Mach 1 I'd believe it easily.

If you only have a small ammount of cash for a car, The newer Mustangs are not the option for you. Its gonna take about 4k in bolt ons (and cams) to get to the 300 rwhp mark. However if you can find a 99+ GT thats allready modded for under 8k (its probly got issues) maybe thats what you need. Full bolt on manual 99+GTs are capable of high 12s on street tires.

*EDIT* Actually now that I think about it, is it possible the 290 you saw was the Torque? Because with my manual the loss of having an auto would convert my tq to the 290s....

40oz · Sep 26, 2006

OK. Your buddy has an LS1 f-body. You have an LT1 Caprice. You also have $8K to spend. My advice is to let your buddy play, and live your own life.

Don't even play that game. You already know you are starting out in a hole, and the only LS1 or 99+ GT's you'll be able to afford will be worn out and ragged. Nothing to bend over backwards to get into. Might as well make the best of your life, let your buddy dump his money into his car, and enjoy what he has while it lasts.

If you were starting with something decent, and had the money ear-marked for upgrades, then fine. But your starting point is so far behind his LS1, there's nothing you could accomplish on your budget.

Save your money, think ahead, plan your purchase, and don't be afraid to pay "too much" for a car that will meet your expectations. Beat him next year or the year after, if you need to beat him. Playing catch-up is a fools game.

Superhereaux · Sep 26, 2006

buy an older lt1 fbody and do a h/c/i 383 with full exhaust and drag suspension

i don't see too many newer 383 cars but i figure it'd scoot down the track pretty good

hell, even a foxbody 5.0 with the right h/c/i is capable of high 12's

competing with an LS1

Snowman76

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