Continuing on to other projects thread

7991LXnSHO

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Thank you for the details. I stopped paying attention in the last ten years since I was planning on driving the 2005’s on trips and days the classics should not be out.
 
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HotFox

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Here's the thing about the Malibu, Cruze, Regal, and similar GM cars...

You're either going to NEVER have a problem with it and it'll be Toyota-like in it's reliability, or it'll be a turd from day one.

As far as GM stating that issue is "completely normal", it's not. Find another GM dealership.
Thanks! I have a 2008 Cobalt sport and its been a great car at 175K and staying domestic I really didn't see any other viable options. I will not own a Ford crossover, car (besides Mustang) or SUV and I will not even look at a FCA/Fiat.
 

MustangIIMatt

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Thank you for the details. I stopped paying attention in the last ten years since I was planning on driving the 2005’s on trips and days the classics should not be out.
You'd asked if the powertrain needed to be dropped to do a water pump on a 3.5 in a FWD Ford.

Well... the official answer is "yes" on most models, but it can be done in car on all of them.

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...uperpinto-with-gila-monster-dna.894996/page-6 There's some pics of when I replaced the water pump in my mother's Taurus with that engine. She got lucky, it let go all of a mile from the house.
 
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MustangIIMatt

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Thanks! I have a 2008 Cobalt sport and its been a great car at 175K and staying domestic I really didn't see any other viable options. I will not own a Ford crossover, car (besides Mustang) or SUV and I will not even look at a FCA/Fiat.
You're one of like two people I've ever heard of that liked their Cobalt. :confused:
 
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90sickfox

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The water pump failed in my 2008 taurus 3.5. Filled the crankcase with coolant. Wife drove it about 5 miles home. I loosened all the mounts and slid the engine all the way to the drivers side. Bought 20 dollar camshaft holders on Amazon and changed the pump and oil. That was 50k ago and its still running great.

I'd stay away from all the Ford small crossovers. If it isn't a v6 explorer I wouldn't buy one. As far as Jeep goes....the Renegade is junk....right along with the Compass.

All the Chevy are garbage...plagued with issues on a the 4 cylinders. If its idling rough its probably a camshaft solenoid thats going out ( very common )....or the actuator...which sucks. Either way, if it was those issues the check engine light would come on.

On newer cars a bunch of them say the car will run on 87....with direct injection and higher compression. I've found every last one to run better on 89 or 91. I run 93 in my ecoboost and could tell the difference when the dealership 87 ran out.

I'm particularly though because I work at a used car dealer. If it isn't a jeep wrangler they can keep it. The Grand Cherokee is hit and miss with minor issues....the regular Cherokee is a complete POS.

The biggest issues with the Ford crossovers involve transmissions....and engine issues. The 3.5 v6 is a very good engine in my opinion. I've seen many of them with over 300k with no major issues. Even when the water pump fails it doesn't usually take out the engine.

The most reliable cars I've seen have been hyundai....they had an issue with the some engines up until about 2014. The bearings would eat themselves. I think it was due to the recommended regular oil. They have the best warranty out there 10 year bumper to bumper or 100k miles. My wife's 19 Sante Fe has unlimited for the powertrain and 10 / 100k for everything else. Use synthetic or change the oil religiously and won't have an issue.
 

MustangIIMatt

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The water pump failed in my 2008 taurus 3.5. Filled the crankcase with coolant. Wife drove it about 5 miles home. I loosened all the mounts and slid the engine all the way to the drivers side. Bought 20 dollar camshaft holders on Amazon and changed the pump and oil. That was 50k ago and its still running great.

I'd stay away from all the Ford small crossovers. If it isn't a v6 explorer I wouldn't buy one. As far as Jeep goes....the Renegade is junk....right along with the Compass.

All the Chevy are garbage...plagued with issues on a the 4 cylinders. If its idling rough its probably a camshaft solenoid thats going out ( very common )....or the actuator...which sucks. Either way, if it was those issues the check engine light would come on.

On newer cars a bunch of them say the car will run on 87....with direct injection and higher compression. I've found every last one to run better on 89 or 91. I run 93 in my ecoboost and could tell the difference when the dealership 87 ran out.

I'm particularly though because I work at a used car dealer. If it isn't a jeep wrangler they can keep it. The Grand Cherokee is hit and miss with minor issues....the regular Cherokee is a complete POS.

The biggest issues with the Ford crossovers involve transmissions....and engine issues. The 3.5 v6 is a very good engine in my opinion. I've seen many of them with over 300k with no major issues. Even when the water pump fails it doesn't usually take out the engine.

The most reliable cars I've seen have been hyundai....they had an issue with the some engines up until about 2014. The bearings would eat themselves. I think it was due to the recommended regular oil. They have the best warranty out there 10 year bumper to bumper or 100k miles. My wife's 19 Sante Fe has unlimited for the powertrain and 10 / 100k for everything else. Use synthetic or change the oil religiously and won't have an issue.
I'll disagree with you all day on the Ford 3.5 from having worked for a Ford dealership. Those engines are trash.

I agree 100% on Hyundai reliability though. I was at Hyundai when they recalled the 2.4 and 2.0 turbo in the Sonata. I honestly don't think oil had anything to do with it because we were running Motorcraft synthetic blend (we carried Ford and Hyundai, as well as three other import lines, Hyundai was the only one without their own oil, so we used either Motorcraft oil or AC Delco oil from our Suzuki line in them), and were still seeing the same issues as everyone else. Only Penske-owned Hyundai dealerships were using a better oil than we were and they saw the same bottom-end failures. I firmly believe the issue was in the metallurgy. The reason for that belief is because the oil formulation, mileage on the engine, how it was driven, and oil change interval didn't matter. Little old ladies with 10,000 miles on their car that had already had three oil changes and had never seen 3000rpm were throwing rods at the same time as 200,000 mile ex rental cars on their third trip through the buy-here-pay-here market around Ft. Hood. Time was the factor. Cars built in 2010 started suffering bottom-end failures in 2013, 2011 in 2014, and so on.

Hyundai publicly said the issue was incorrectly installed rod bearings in a select run of engines assembled in Ulsan, but later issued a new part number for the bearings and recalled ALL of the engines. My theory based on what I saw is that the bearings themselves were having some kind of chemical reaction with an ingredient common to all modern motor oils. This would explain why mileage, driving habits, and even maintenance intervals didn't seem to matter much.

There was another issue with the same engine in the Santa Fe where the oil pump would just fail with little warning. I think they got that ironed out a few years ago. That one was crazy. I experienced it first-hand when a Santa Fe with 20,000 miles got traded in while I was performing scheduled maintenance on it. I finished all the work, went for the test drive since it was now a CPO inspection, and it started knocking on the way back to the dealership. The oil pump had just failed during the test drive. This car had already had four oil changes, previous owner brought it in every 4k like clockwork. We went through a lot of oil pumps in Santa Fes after that, and then after a few months it stopped for the most part. The crazy thing is that Sonatas with the identical engine didn't have oil pump problems, and Santa Fes never developed widespread rod bearing issues.

The rest of the lineup didn't have major pattern failures... At all. Minor issues? Yup, and Hyundai is damned good about getting TSBs out for those. Major, calling a tow truck kinds of issues? Not really. Working for Hyundai for five years is why working for BMW pisses me off so much. BMW wishes they could build a car like Hyundai.
 
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MustangIIMatt

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Hyundai and Kia very similar?
Same thing.

Hyundai bought Kia in 1998 with the South Korean government's assistance and insistence (they didn't want a joint Ford/Mazda bid putting their #2 automaker under partial Japanese control). Since then, Hyundai has brought Kia's product line mostly in line with their own (with the notable exceptions being the Soul, which is a uniquely Kia product though it's chassis and powertrains are still Hyundai-derived) and the Stinger (which is still Hyundai-powered, but otherwise very much it's own creature).
 
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91TwighlightGT

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I'll disagree with you all day on the Ford 3.5 from having worked for a Ford dealership. Those engines are trash.

I agree 100% on Hyundai reliability though. I was at Hyundai when they recalled the 2.4 and 2.0 turbo in the Sonata. I honestly don't think oil had anything to do with it because we were running Motorcraft synthetic blend (we carried Ford and Hyundai, as well as three other import lines, Hyundai was the only one without their own oil, so we used either Motorcraft oil or AC Delco oil from our Suzuki line in them), and were still seeing the same issues as everyone else. Only Penske-owned Hyundai dealerships were using a better oil than we were and they saw the same bottom-end failures. I firmly believe the issue was in the metallurgy. The reason for that belief is because the oil formulation, mileage on the engine, how it was driven, and oil change interval didn't matter. Little old ladies with 10,000 miles on their car that had already had three oil changes and had never seen 3000rpm were throwing rods at the same time as 200,000 mile ex rental cars on their third trip through the buy-here-pay-here market around Ft. Hood. Time was the factor. Cars built in 2010 started suffering bottom-end failures in 2013, 2011 in 2014, and so on.

Hyundai publicly said the issue was incorrectly installed rod bearings in a select run of engines assembled in Ulsan, but later issued a new part number for the bearings and recalled ALL of the engines. My theory based on what I saw is that the bearings themselves were having some kind of chemical reaction with an ingredient common to all modern motor oils. This would explain why mileage, driving habits, and even maintenance intervals didn't seem to matter much.

There was another issue with the same engine in the Santa Fe where the oil pump would just fail with little warning. I think they got that ironed out a few years ago. That one was crazy. I experienced it first-hand when a Santa Fe with 20,000 miles got traded in while I was performing scheduled maintenance on it. I finished all the work, went for the test drive since it was now a CPO inspection, and it started knocking on the way back to the dealership. The oil pump had just failed during the test drive. This car had already had four oil changes, previous owner brought it in every 4k like clockwork. We went through a lot of oil pumps in Santa Fes after that, and then after a few months it stopped for the most part. The crazy thing is that Sonatas with the identical engine didn't have oil pump problems, and Santa Fes never developed widespread rod bearing issues.

The rest of the lineup didn't have major pattern failures... At all. Minor issues? Yup, and Hyundai is damned good about getting TSBs out for those. Major, calling a tow truck kinds of issues? Not really. Working for Hyundai for five years is why working for BMW pisses me off so much. BMW wishes they could build a car like Hyundai.


If it wasn't for the water pump issue, the Ford engines would be pretty solid. My day job is used car sales, and we've sold a fair amount of Fords with that engine. It is a shame that the water pump is designed the way it is because they are otherwise reliable.

As far as Hyundai/Kia... Nope, I don't agree at all that they are good quality. The 1.8L engines in the 11+ Elantra, Forte, and Soul are very problematic. They piston slap at 100K, and they are HIDEOUSLY expensive to replace, which is always an indicator of high demand. If it wasn't for engine issues, the Hyundai/Kia line would be pretty nice, too. The 11+ Sonata engines also have problems, and are also expensive. The 2.4L in the 6-10 Sonata's were junk, too.

GM is the real headscratcher, though. In the 90's through mid 00's they were unreliable, cheap junk. Now, they are unreliable, expensive junk. There isn't a car in their lineup that doesn't have timing chain issues, their transmissions are also problematic and expensive. The Chevy Cruze is possibly the most unreliable POS I've come across in recent memory. The 1.4L Turbo is especially bad - plastic cooling system that should be entirely replaced at 80,000 miles, Turbo's that fail and launch their turbines into the expensive catalytic converter. Valve covers that have integrated PCV systems that clog, which in turn blows out the ports on the intake manifold, both problems that are not repairable and require replacement of the entire valve cover and intake manifold assemblies. The transmissions are expensive and failure prone, etc.

I'll be honest - there just aren't that many decent cars to choose from anymore. They have all become unreliable and expensive due to chasing fuel economy and emissions. It's depressing.
 

MustangIIMatt

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If it wasn't for the water pump issue, the Ford engines would be pretty solid. My day job is used car sales, and we've sold a fair amount of Fords with that engine. It is a shame that the water pump is designed the way it is because they are otherwise reliable.
The turbo versions eat the timing chain and cam phasers too. Not something I'd call reliable.

As far as Hyundai/Kia... Nope, I don't agree at all that they are good quality. The 1.8L engines in the 11+ Elantra, Forte, and Soul are very problematic. They piston slap at 100K, and they are HIDEOUSLY expensive to replace, which is always an indicator of high demand. If it wasn't for engine issues, the Hyundai/Kia line would be pretty nice, too. The 11+ Sonata engines also have problems, and are also expensive. The 2.4L in the 6-10 Sonata's were junk, too.
See, this, I wonder about.

When I was at Hyundai, I heard horror stories about the Genesis Coupe manual transmission from technicians in northern climates (when at training at the regional technical center in Coppell, TX), while we'd never pulled a single unit from a car, and being just miles from Fort Hood, we sold more of those cars than anyone. I also heard about 1.8 Elantra engines from those guys, but it was a really rare thing for us (I also see them posted regularly on /r/justrolledintotheshop , but like I said, we almost never replaced a 1.8 here). The old 2006-2010 2.4s were really good for us too (the earlier ones were ticking time bombs though).

I'll put it this way, I've put family members into three Hyundais, including a 2011 Sonata with a replacement engine, over the years, and all three were solid, reliable cars that needed the least of my attention among my family's fleet. The one that needs the most is that damned 3.5L Taurus, and 2nd most is the Suburban.
 

7991LXnSHO

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This is very interesting. Although I’ts a bit discouraging it is helpful.

I wish my Grand Marquis driver’s seat fit my short spouse better. The seat back would need a lot of padding for the bottom front edge to not hit the back of her legs wrong. New, tall foam on the bottom might help her see over the back of the seat, too. She does not like not being able to see the corners of the car, but that is a possibility in any new vehicle that’s not a box. (I added a Peak wireless back up camera to fix half that problem). It has been super reliable with the heater box dragging doors being the only not pidfly, minor repair. And she likes riding in it on trips, but that driver’s seat is a deal breaker. It’s been the plan that my son will likely get the Merc until he can buy a truck and can aFord the insurance on it. He’s almost 14, and is already big enough to need the space, and the color is right. As long as he’s around town, we still have a vehicle to handle the pickup bed trailer.

For my wife’s next car, I now think I have enough info to research prices and test drive a couple of vehicles that might need specialty service from an out of town dealer and a newer Escape with out eyes open. Thanks!
Too bad we all four will not fit comfortably in a new(er) Mustang.:D
 
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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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We bought a new kia reo (my choice for her to drive) in 2018, the kid has a 2011 reo with a 150k on it and it takes a quart of oil every 1000 miles, I just change the filter once in a while and keep it full of oil.
 

MustangIIMatt

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Subaru's head gasket problem is old history....fixed solved w improved gaskets.
Someone needs to tell Subaru. (I've got friends at the Subaru dealership, head gaskets keep them busy like N20, N63, and N62 engines keep me busy at BMW.)
 

91TwighlightGT

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The turbo versions eat the timing chain and cam phasers too. Not something I'd call reliable.

I'll admit I don't have much direct experience with the Turbo engines. With that said, in my experience Turbo anything is pretty much unreliable. I'm really not on board with the small turbocharged engine for fuel economy over a bit larger N/A engine. As far as I can tell, it simply means marginally better (and sometimes not) fuel economy with a lot more maintenance issues.
 

MustangIIMatt

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I'll admit I don't have much direct experience with the Turbo engines. With that said, in my experience Turbo anything is pretty much unreliable. I'm really not on board with the small turbocharged engine for fuel economy over a bit larger N/A engine. As far as I can tell, it simply means marginally better (and sometimes not) fuel economy with a lot more maintenance issues.
That, in general, I'll agree with.

There are very reliable turbo engines out there, Honda's "Earthdream" line is a small turbo engine I've seen a single breakdown from, and that was due to lack of maintenance. Hyundai's 1.6 turbo is pretty good unless you have an injector failure, that's the only thing I've seen kill those engines in Velosters, Souls, and Sonatas, and it's a pretty rare failure. The B46 turbo 4-cylinder from BMW is surprisingly reliable, with the oddball coolant leak seeming to be their favorite issue.

On the other end of the spectrum the GM 1.4 turbo, which I love for it's driving dynamics, is so prone to timing cover leaks, and has such a stupid timing cover design, that I'm not sure I'd own one. The 2.0 turbo in the Camaro and ATS is another one I'm not sure I'd own, but enjoy driving. ALL of Ford's turbo engines worry me. All of the European turbo engines except the crazy Volvo 5-cylinders and the BMW B46 are kind of frightening. I don't have enough experience with Toyota/Lexus turbo 4-bangers to know what they're going to be like, they were really late to that party.