couple'a questions

syanyde · May 7, 2006

ok two questions:

first off im trying to get my oil pan off with out any real knowledge of how it comes off. we unbolted everything but what im wondering is how and what is the easiest way to slide it out? i hope it doesnt need to have the suspension lowered out or anything.

secondly heres a random question but how much do you think the mph would be off on my speedo if i added 17" wheels on my car? just curious how far out of whack it might be.

Shawneebear93 · May 8, 2006

syanyde said:
secondly heres a random question but how much do you think the mph would be off on my speedo if i added 17" wheels on my car? just curious how far out of whack it might be.

Try this out ...
http://www.1010tires.com/TireSizeCalculator.asp?action=submit

EDIT: It depends not just on wheel size but on tire size as well, hope it helps.

Red_LX · May 8, 2006

If you're trying to remove the oil pan with the engine in the car, you'll have to unbolt the motor mounts and raise the engine a few inches. Have to get it up enough that you can clear the oil pump pickup.

rd · May 8, 2006

For what it's worth, I would not try to pull the oil pan with the engine in the car. Trying to clean the block, and get the gasket and seals back in with no leaks is way too hard to do under the car.

Done it both ways, pulling the engine is just as fast, and gives you a much higer probability of getting it done right.

88stangmangt · May 8, 2006

rd said:
For what it's worth, I would not try to pull the oil pan with the engine in the car. Trying to clean the block, and get the gasket and seals back in with no leaks is way too hard to do under the car.

Done it both ways, pulling the engine is just as fast, and gives you a much higer probability of getting it done right.

That is about the worse advice i have seen go through the forums in years....pull the engine to replace the oil pan gasket .....if your gonna go that far you might as well do a re-ring and new bearing on it...would only be a extra hour or two....if i was doing it and this is just me....im only a diesel mechanic....i would undo the motor mounts take off the fan blade lift the motor till it is snug in the trans tunnel. That should give you enough clearance room to slide the pan from the block and over the K-Member. i would use brake cleaner and a razor to clean any left over gasket/oil on the block. I would then use a sanding pad or a air grinder and take the first layer off the top of the oil pan all the way around...to be certain it seals 100% my felpro oil pan gasket for my 85 302 notch has snaps studs that hold the gasket and oil pan in place till you can get the bolts in to keep if from shifting......done several in my day and if you dont shift the oil pan and tourque it right I have never had a leak.

syanyde · May 8, 2006

awesome thanks for the response, ill take all of this info into consideration.

cavi · May 8, 2006

On the wheel questio, the simple answer is it depends on what size tire you will run. I went from the stock 14 inch wheels to 17 inch wheels but kept the stock diameter tire this way the ratio did not change, I just have rubber with a lower profile, and better handling. If you check the specs on the tires at the tire company's sites they all give the diameter on the tires in the various sizes. My stock was 25.5 roughly if I remember and the new ones were within .01 of the stock.

RustBucket · May 8, 2006

88stangmangt said:
That is about the worse advice i have seen go through the forums in years....pull the engine to replace the oil pan gasket .....if your gonna go that far you might as well do a re-ring and new bearing on it...would only be a extra hour or two....if i was doing it and this is just me....im only a diesel mechanic....i would undo the motor mounts take off the fan blade lift the motor till it is snug in the trans tunnel. That should give you enough clearance room to slide the pan from the block and over the K-Member. i would use brake cleaner and a razor to clean any left over gasket/oil on the block. I would then use a sanding pad or a air grinder and take the first layer off the top of the oil pan all the way around...to be certain it seals 100% my felpro oil pan gasket for my 85 302 notch has snaps studs that hold the gasket and oil pan in place till you can get the bolts in to keep if from shifting......done several in my day and if you dont shift the oil pan and tourque it right I have never had a leak.

In truth, yours isn't much better. You're thinking like a diesel mechanic and in that case, why pull the motor for a re-ring and bearing? I wouldn't yank a 3406 out of the frame rails to change a pan gasket, but a 2.3? No sweat. As for cleaning the pan rails, just scrape them especially with the late model aluminum pans that don't use the pan rail as the primary sealing surface anyway. Excess metal removal here by an inexperienced person can eff-up a good oil pan. Steel pans can be cleaned up with a good razor scraper to get any old gasket material and RTV off, same with the engine side. Using a power tool on the engine side just slings gasket material around on places you don't want FOD. Make double triple and quadruple sure on the engine side that the corners where the front seal plate and the rear main cap meet the oil pan rail are clean. This goes for steel or aluminum. It's the easiest place for a leak to start.

I don't know what the deal is with the 2.3, but it can be a major beeyatch to get the pan out with the motor in the car. I think it has to do with the location of the oil pump and pickup tube. The 5.0 guys probably don't see this issue since the pump is up front. Jack the motor up and you get all the pump clearance you need. The 2.3 locates the pump off to the side and back a little, and there's just barely enough clearance to get the pan out if you hold your tongue just right, and the wind is out of the east and its a tuesday. To attempt to put it all back together without the gasket falling down into the pan, or snagging on the pump on the way back in is a supreme test of manual dexterity and luck. You'd think the aluminum pan would be better, since the o-ring style gasket tends to stay put, the only problem there is that the pan is bulkier and just creates different clearance issues (but hey! the gasket stays put).

Regardless of how you do it, others may do it differently, no big deal, and no reason to chastise.

syanyde · May 8, 2006

i was just about to post up that nothing has worked so far since we were at it tonight for a couple hours trying to hoist the engine up and try to swing the pan out, but to no luck. i think we may just disconnect the tranny since all the housing bolts are fairly accessable. once that comes out just a little bit it should be a breeze to pull the motor forward just a little and get that whole damn pan off. you werent kidding when you said its a beeyatch there rustbucket, we tried and tried to find an angle to get it out but it just wouldnt go... oh well theres always tomorrow :o

JosephB · May 9, 2006

oil pan

Just hit it with a really big hammer!

syanyde · May 9, 2006

haha we were close to that point, gets frustrating when you dont really know exactly what needs to be where to get that thing out

RustBucket · May 9, 2006

Even more frustrating when you think everything should clear, but the pan keeps hanging up and you can't figure out why when you can see there's room all around it. I know the last time I tried it, everytime I laid my head down on the creeper to stop and think, I kept seeing my torch over in the corner of the garage. It was like it was over there saying "Put me in coach, I can get this one!!"

rd · May 10, 2006

Sorry if you don't agree with the remove the motor advice.

I'm not a mechanic, I am a civil engineer. Soils engineer and construction manager, to be more precise. So tthings with moving parts are sometimes a challenge.

I just do this as a hobby, and because I'm too cheap to pay someone to do most of this stuff, particularly on my hobby cars.

I have done the oil pan gasket repair both ways, in the car and out, and with small block Fords, motor out is hands down the best way. Especially to get the pan past the pump and pickup. I have not done a 2.3, but I would rather spend 3 hours each way removing and reinstalling, to get access, and make sure I get it done, than fool around for the same 6 hours under the car in all the dirt, and have it not seal well. Yes, I do have a hoist, but after 20 years I thought I deserved one...

Yes, I know different methods work for different things, and I don't work on many large trucks or similar items. I do my outboard and Waverunners, mowers, etc. I understand the technique differs for other engines.

The last in the chassis oil pan gasket change I saw was my across the street neighbor. He had two guys that work for him, who are metal building erectors most of the time, change the pan gasket on his 88 Grand Wagoneer 360, in the car. It took 2 guys, 8 hours for 6 days, including borrowing tools from me, and they looked like oil rig workers rolled in dirt every day. But they were on the payroll anyway, I guess.

I removed and repaired the head gaskets on my Windstar in the chassis. The dealer says they do it the other way, as its faster to drop the whole engine trans unit down, fix it and reinstall it. That was a surprise to me.

And, surprise, some people actually drive and like Chevrolets!

5.0ina66 · May 10, 2006

Ah..exactly the thing a diesel mechanic would say. As you well know, most of those engines are designed to be worked-on almost entirely in-place. Are car engines? H@ll no! Yank it, do it right and be happy!

I'd yank the pan and do it on an older car, but modern cars with R&P steering, there's too much crap in the way.

PS: FWIW, I like Chebys AND Ford (Just don't give me a Dodge made after 1978)

88stangmangt · May 10, 2006

RustBucket said:
In truth, yours isn't much better. You're thinking like a diesel mechanic and in that case, why pull the motor for a re-ring and bearing? I wouldn't yank a 3406 out of the frame rails to change a pan gasket, but a 2.3? No sweat. As for cleaning the pan rails, just scrape them especially with the late model aluminum pans that don't use the pan rail as the primary sealing surface anyway. Excess metal removal here by an inexperienced person can eff-up a good oil pan. Steel pans can be cleaned up with a good razor scraper to get any old gasket material and RTV off, same with the engine side. Using a power tool on the engine side just slings gasket material around on places you don't want FOD. Make double triple and quadruple sure on the engine side that the corners where the front seal plate and the rear main cap meet the oil pan rail are clean. This goes for steel or aluminum. It's the easiest place for a leak to start.

I don't know what the deal is with the 2.3, but it can be a major beeyatch to get the pan out with the motor in the car. I think it has to do with the location of the oil pump and pickup tube. The 5.0 guys probably don't see this issue since the pump is up front. Jack the motor up and you get all the pump clearance you need. The 2.3 locates the pump off to the side and back a little, and there's just barely enough clearance to get the pan out if you hold your tongue just right, and the wind is out of the east and its a tuesday. To attempt to put it all back together without the gasket falling down into the pan, or snagging on the pump on the way back in is a supreme test of manual dexterity and luck. You'd think the aluminum pan would be better, since the o-ring style gasket tends to stay put, the only problem there is that the pan is bulkier and just creates different clearance issues (but hey! the gasket stays put).

Regardless of how you do it, others may do it differently, no big deal, and no reason to chastise.

you can do as you please my whole point is why pull the motor to put a oil pan gasket in??? if your gonna go through that might as well throw in a new rear main...and I stated "IF" you were gonna pull the motor you might as well just re-build it....no where did i say you "had" to pull the motor for new rings/bearings....but im not gonna argue as stated by you others have there own way doesnt make yours any better from mine.

RustBucket · May 10, 2006

We agree to disagree. I can live with that. I never said you "had" to pull the motor to do bearings. It was a reference to diesel mechanics and in-frame overhauls. I'm not trying to continue an arguement, but I'd like to ask if you pull a transmission because it needs a clutch, do you rebuild the trans since it's already out? I know people who are like that, some go as far as replacing the bellhousing bolts, dowel pins, etc. It's not necessary, nor is it warranted, but it makes them feel better. That, in and of itself makes the whole job worth it to them. Just goes along with the one thing we agree upon...To each his own

rd · May 11, 2006

I know the trap of "while I have it out, I might as well put in new bearings, etc." Hate that.

Actually, I sold my Plymouth Voyager because if I had kept it any longer, it would have rusted through the freeze plug behind the flexplate, an I would have had to pull all that mess to fix it....

A lot depends on what your experience and background is. Mine is working on the rustbuckets I could afford as a kid in New England, where removing a bolt is a trial because its so rusted. So it was much easier to bite the bullet and take it apart so you could get to stuff. The guy I worked for at the time was opposite. He hated to work on cars, but did not hesitate to go after nearly anything on his bigger Internationals and diesels. He said they were easier because there was more room.

My Dad could rescrape babbited bearings with the engine in the chassis. (after one of my high school shenanigans with his old Chevy truck...)

But that's how they did it back then. He could also make bearings out of leather and pistons out of wood for a car he was trading in.... But that's another story.

By the way did you get the pan gasket done yet?

bhuff30 · May 11, 2006

I'm gonna have to chime in on the remove or not to remove the oil pan thing.
It really just depends on what you have available for tools. If you have a car lift and bay to work in, it is definatly easier to leave the engine in the car and raise the engine/transmission. If you are working on the ground with hand tools but have access to an engine hoist, it is way easier to pull out the engine. And yes, it is worth it to replace the bearings at the same time .

I've had the oil pan off both ways, and I don't have a bay and lift. I am never pulling the oil pan from underneath again. I've done it twice, and it is the worst job I've ever done.

couple'a questions

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