Cpp mini sub install

67coupestang

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I never found much on the install for the Classic Performance Products mini sub frame with tubular a-arms so I'm going to try to document this as I go,, Bear with me its my first build progress write up, and I'm not much for stopping to take pictures. But here I go.

So some back story first. Little hesitant about this kit because of the lack of resources, the fact that there service/sales department is terrible (more on that later), and build quality.
I went ahead with this kit because I'm in a situation where welding isn't an option. Where I live has a tiny garage, and if I try to run my welder for more than sheet metal it blows the 15amp fuse that runs the garage, bathroom, fridge... you get the picture
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There she is!! spent a few hours Saturday on tear down, but didnt want to bore you with that.
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There's the two bare shock towers sort of cleaned up and empty
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This is what I considered the point of no return. The original strut mounts need to be lopped off for the new subframe. Little nervous about this so I spent some time removing the leaking bendix steering to make way for the new integral borgeson box.
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Deep breath.... and they're gone!! only tip I have is make sure your center punch is super sharp so you get a nice divot for the spot weld cutter to track in.
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And there's my pinky finger, probably the only one not bleeding at this point HA but here's the frame cleaned up a bit with a quick spray just to keep things neat. The nice thing about working on the Mut-stang is I don't have to worry about it being pretty or masking anything off etc, someday she'll be blown apart for paint.... someday


Now theres a big gap in time here because I really struggled with the next step. The control arm eccentrics they sent are JUNK!!! Super soft steel. 3 went in pretty easy but the 4th got jammed up big time, I only got it about half way in and no matter how hard I wacked it with a BFH it would not budge. I wound up having to take a bunch of stuff back apart and pressing it out with a ball joint press. When I got it out I noticed the tiniest bit of slag? I guess inside the steel insert for the bushing that wedged it up. Also some how I rounded out the "D" in the eccentric washers making them usless, didnt take much force to do at all... 5 hours ago I called CPP about getting a new eccentric and still haven't gotten a call back... I went ahead and ordered a set from summit with cam eliminators... Overnighted them hopefully they get here tomorrow..
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Here's what the sub looks like sort of installed, I broke 2 7/16" drill bits so I called it for the night. The 4 bolts at the front of the core support were a pain, unless You wanna pull the radiator, you better have small fingers. Un seen is a 1/4' plate that starts those bolts out and is the bread in this sub-frame/core-support sandwich. Again, If I had the option I would have welded the bolts to those plates to make install a little easier. Also this car is old, who knows whats been done to it, but I assume someone used the core support as a jacking point as it was shaped a bit like a banana. I used a little bit longer bolt and just pulled the sub-frame and core support together, probably not the thing to do, but I think it'll be fine. I guess I'll find out when I get it aligned. Also not real happy about the "powder coating", you can see exactly which bolt I had problems with and how easily the paint chipped, oh well she's a go'r not a show'r.

More tomorrow! Thanks Fellas!!
 
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wicked93gs

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Sep 30, 2006
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CPP is legit, they make quite a few parts these days. I think the main reason their kit isn't real popular is because the alternatives are better, using spherical bearings instead of bushings and offering a lot more camber and caster adjustability with adjustable strut rods, camber kits and adjustments on the control arms themselves.

I wouldn't worry too much about having removed the strut brackets, they are easy enough to weld back on(new ones) if you need to.

Really though, anytime you use a welder you really do need a shop/garage set up for it...mine wasn't, had to run 220 out there myself...that was a nightmare, running the wire in my crawlspace from my main box my chest was squeezed between the floor joists and the ground...I couldn't fill my lungs all the way. I didn't think I was claustrophobic...but that experience made me decide I am never going caving, having to expel the air from your lungs to move. Most people don't have a nightmare crawlspace like me though.
 

67coupestang

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got the uppers mounted today

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starting to take shape again
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here's an issue that I knew was coming... The spindle sits way too low on the lower balljoint. It completely smashes the boot and I think will bind If the suspension ever hits full droop. I bought a set of qa1 re-buildable ball joints with a 1" longer shaft, I figured that it would solve this plus lower my COG a bit and change my camber curve (similar to a shelby drop) Ill be damned if I can get those joints out though... I bought a wrench with the Qa1's but it likes to slip off whit a cheater bar. Tomorrow Ill see if I can rent a socket.
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here's where I hit the biggest snag, really wanted to get her on her front feet today. Careful what you shop for, sometimes not worth saving a buck. I got these of flea-bay, and its my own fault, this is exactly what the look like on the listing. Besides the obvious crap spring with no travel, assuming the weight of the car compresses it as is. The threads to adjust the coil seat is not attached to anything, and its impossible to hold it still with the spring in so you can adjust the nut. Excuse the compressor, which didnt work, but I thought if I took all pressure off the coil I could spin the nut. No, and I didn't want to even think of how I'd do it on the car. Plus the whole weight of the car rests on a very ill-fitting snap ring and that threaded aluminum tube. Short of it was a waste of 400 bucks. Qa1's on the way. I wasn't real nice to the original springs or perches which I could have used to get her on the ground, but I had other stuff to do.
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like mount the Borgeson box
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I took the header off to make it easier to install the box, and I had to lift the engine of the mounts to slip it back in but it fits damn well. I was told I'd probably have to massage it a bit to clear the box but... Another project this week is lifting the tail of the transmission so that tight spot next to the steering box cap will only improve
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The column tube needs to be cut to clear the box and rag joint. The kit I bought came with a new shaft, which was nice, some of them out there you need to cut and reuse the original.
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Heres a little shot of the TCP bump steer kit. I was gonna spend the money on billet adjusters anyway, so for a few bucks more, just got the bump kit


Probably wont be too much of an update tomorrow, waiting on the new coil overs and Ill do some boring stuff like clean and repack the bearings, have the rotors turned, new pads etc. most of the day will be butchering the tunnel so I can fix my drive line issues :nice:
 

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wicked93gs

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Sep 30, 2006
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I think there is supposed to be a lower ball joint spacer for the CPP kit, I remember reading something about it. Def contact CPP about it
 

67coupestang

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Been a bit. coil-overs got delayed. I got them with about 80 minutes to install and adjust before I'd miss my chance to get it aligned so I could take her out this weekend
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These were definatly worth the wait, super high quality and easy to install. Took longer to adjust them to where I wanted (being picky) than it did to slap them in. I belive it was worth getting the spanners and thrust bearing kit.
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I wish. Too much rubbing so I did have to raise the ol girl up a bit
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Forgot to mention this bit of juicy. Probably made more of a difference than anything else. Look how anemic the original looks compared to the new... super breeze to install and seems to fit very well with the CPP kit even though its an 1 1/8" and I think cpp said 1" max iirc

Haven't been able to give it much of a shake down yet, and the old was so bad its not a fair comparison, but so far Id say I'm happy. They only gripes I have so far is there (lack) of response at the service end, the adjustment eccentrics, The alignment shop had some issues they said and couldn't give me the 3.5 degrees of caster I wanted only about 1.8, and the lack of any kind of provision for turn stops. When i turn all the way in the tires rub on the frame. I'm only running 225's and they never rubbed before, I didn't do any before and after measurements unfortunately but the way the tires sit in the fender I would say ride height is set the same but might have lost about half an inch each side in track width

All in all I'm happy, honestly the old, even though it was rebuilt by myself *cough* 25 years ago when I was 15 (please don't do the math), it was not taken care of and old tech. The car was originally power steering but it leaked so bad I got frustrated one day after work and just cut the belt off the pump and thats the way its been for a couple decades... I really think its a great cruiser system and good bang for the buck. Probably wont keep up with the detroit aluminum subframe kit, or a roadster shop build, but I think its a better option than a MustangII set-up


Thanks for reading
 
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wicked93gs

15 Year Member
Sep 30, 2006
1,115
182
93
Nashville TN
Been a bit. coil-overs got delayed. I got them with about 80 minutes to install and adjust before I'd miss my chance to get it aligned so I could take her out this weekend
image2 - Copy.jpeg

These were definatly worth the wait, super high quality and easy to install. Took longer to adjust them to where I wanted (being picky) than it did to slap them in. I belive it was worth getting the spanners and thrust bearing kit.
image3 - Copy.jpeg

I wish. Too much rubbing so I did have to raise the ol girl up a bit
image4 - Copy (2).jpeg

Forgot to mention this bit of juicy. Probably made more of a difference than anything else. Look how anemic the original looks compared to the new... super breeze to install and seems to fit very well with the CPP kit even though its an 1 1/8" and I think cpp said 1" max iirc

Haven't been able to give it much of a shake down yet, and the old was so bad its not a fair comparison, but so far Id say I'm happy. They only gripes I have so far is there (lack) of response at the service end, the adjustment eccentrics, The alignment shop had some issues they said and couldn't give me the 3.5 degrees of caster I wanted only about 1.8, and the lack of any kind of provision for turn stops. When i turn all the way in the tires rub on the frame. I'm only running 225's and they never rubbed before, I didn't do any before and after measurements unfortunately but the way the tires sit in the fender I would say ride height is set the same but might have lost about half an inch each side in track width

All in all I'm happy, honestly the old, even though it was rebuilt by myself *cough* 25 years ago when I was 15 (please don't do the math), it was not taken care of and old tech. The car was originally power steering but it leaked so bad I got frustrated one day after work and just cut the belt off the pump and thats the way its been for a couple decades... I really think its a great cruiser system and good bang for the buck. Probably wont keep up with the detroit aluminum subframe kit, or a roadster shop build, but I think its a better option than a MustangII set-up


Thanks for reading
To increase caster you can also shim the front bolt of the UCAs out, leaving the rear bolts without shims...this rotates the upper ball joint backward increasing caster. I can only assume they shimmed as much as they could in that fashion? You should be able to see easily when popping the hood and seeing how much thread you have left on the UCA front bolt as compared to the back.
 

67coupestang

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yeah no they weren't that creative. Honestly not my favorite shop, but they are good for last minute hail marys, Probably because they don't spend the time to do the job right. Even though it took over an hour and a half, and they gave me some bs about having problems because one of the cams was upside down :bs:Also didn't bother to put in the lock down plates like I had asked. The whole thing left a bitter taste, while in the lobby I got to listen to them talking to other customers, mostly retirees on fixed income, and a lot of over the head bs was thrown about, Really is the last straw, Debating going back there to complain or just move on. It definatly needs more caster, RTC isn't great and its a little darty on the interstate
 

wicked93gs

15 Year Member
Sep 30, 2006
1,115
182
93
Nashville TN
I do imagine the CPP subframe does have less caster adjustability though since the loss of strut rods makes it so you can't just bolt on an adjustable strut rod and pull the LCA forward a bit, so yeah to get the alignment you want you are probably going to need to go to a more performance focused shop, or at the least a shop with an old school guy who is used to shimming control arms...since with the popularity of the McPhereson strut setups most modern cars don't even have UCAs any more its becoming more of a lost art