Do all 4.6 3V's give that kick at about 35-4000rpm?

BudgetPlan1 · Jun 6, 2008

I noticed it in a lesser way before the C&L/Brenspeed tune but it's really almost like a switch is flipped at around 3500-4000rpm, really moving the car out. Our LS1 Vette has a smooth power curve at WOT; you can tell when it gets into the meat of the powerband but it's more smoothly linear. The Mustang pulls but then it hit's that 'place' in the RPM range when it suddenly clicks it up a notch.

Is this just the characteristics of its power curve?

DarkFireGT · Jun 6, 2008

Actually, it's not a switch being flipped, it's the Charge Motion Control Valves opening. Until around 3500RPMs, they're only partially opened. They are small butterfly valves below your intake manifold. Steeda makes some charge motion delete plates that replace these intake runners and don't have the control valves in them. The power is more consistant with these.

NastyStang113 · Jun 6, 2008

DarkFireGT said:
Actually, it's not a switch being flipped, it's the Charge Motion Control Valves opening. Until around 3500RPMs, they're only partially opened. They are small butterfly valves below your intake manifold. Steeda makes some charge motion delete plates that replace these intake runners and don't have the control valves in them. The power is more consistant with these.

I agree, some what. It's much more consistant. However there is a big kick at 3,000-3,500 RPMs with or without them.

DarkFireGT · Jun 6, 2008

Agreed. There is a bit of a kick, but it's much less noticeable with the Steeda CMDPs.

CPman · Jun 6, 2008

For those of you that have removed the Charge Motion Control Valves. Have you noticed much of a loss in low RPM torque. I have been thinking about installing the Steeda Charge Motion Delete Plates, but I am concerned as to how much low end torque and perhaps fuel economy I might loose.

NastyStang113 · Jun 6, 2008

CPman said:
For those of you that have removed the Charge Motion Control Valves. Have you noticed much of a loss in low RPM torque. I have been thinking about installing the Steeda Charge Motion Delete Plates, but I am concerned as to how much low end torque and perhaps fuel economy I might loose.

This is a concern for a lot of people and it should very well be. I heard all of them tell me not to get them. I'm lucky and Justin at VMP Tuning is local to me so I was able to do before and afters with the CMCVs. We did a lot of dyno pulls, playing with all sorts of things, etc. Justin was able to compose a tune that did not lose any part throttle power, torque, or mileage. I gained power all over the power curve with a peak gain of ~6 rwhp and my mileage stayed the same or went up ~.5 mpg.

DarkFireGT · Jun 6, 2008

I'm running a Brenspeed tune here. I noticed a torque decrease with Bamachips, but none with Brenspeed.

ranger04 · Jun 7, 2008

I don't believe it's worth it to get the plates, the gains aren't that much for what is lost. Lets face it, for real hp we need things like lt headers, cai and tune, ported heads and cams, the things that really make a difference. All engines have a sweet spot, the 3 valve 4.6 happens to be at around 3,500. My 02 ZX-2 with the zetec 2.0 would come alive at 5,000 - 7,000 rpm's, it felt like a different motor at those rpm's. Thats why gears are so important, they get you into the sweet spot quicker

steedman07 · Jun 7, 2008

CPman said:
For those of you that have removed the Charge Motion Control Valves. Have you noticed much of a loss in low RPM torque. I have been thinking about installing the Steeda Charge Motion Delete Plates, but I am concerned as to how much low end torque and perhaps fuel economy I might loose.

I installed mine at the same time as a bunch of other ****, but I believe these plates definitely help out more with a car thats got F/I..I wouldnt be surprised to see a jump of about 8-10 whp on a car with F/I and at the same time no loss in rwtq..

steedman07 · Jun 7, 2008

ranger04 said:
I don't believe it's worth it to get the plates, the gains aren't that much for what is lost. Lets face it, for real hp we need things like lt headers, cai and tune, ported heads and cams, the things that really make a difference. All engines have a sweet spot, the 3 valve 4.6 happens to be at around 3,500. My 02 ZX-2 with the zetec 2.0 would come alive at 5,000 - 7,000 rpm's, it felt like a different motor at those rpm's. Thats why gears are so important, they get you into the sweet spot quicker

You are not correct about "real hp" when adding headers to s-197's, they net very little for the cost of parts and labor in relation to $$-hp ratio...

You are 100% correct on the rest of the mods, mostly gears..IMO gears are one of the biggest seat-of-the-pants mods you can do besides F/I..We need to get our sleds up the rpm range quicker to the sweet spot of the power curve,and gears are the answer..

NotQuik · Jun 7, 2008

ThumperMX113 said:
This is a concern for a lot of people and it should very well be. I heard all of them tell me not to get them. I'm lucky and Justin at VMP Tuning is local to me so I was able to do before and afters with the CMCVs. We did a lot of dyno pulls, playing with all sorts of things, etc. Justin was able to compose a tune that did not lose any part throttle power, torque, or mileage. I gained power all over the power curve with a peak gain of ~6 rwhp and my mileage stayed the same or went up ~.5 mpg.

so was it worth the cost and does the car seem more responsive at all? Whenever I get an xcal I too plan on taking it to justin for a tune, heard many good things about his tunes.

TGJ · Jun 8, 2008

ranger04 said:
I don't believe it's worth it to get the plates, the gains aren't that much for what is lost. Lets face it, for real hp we need things like lt headers, cai and tune, ported heads and cams, the things that really make a difference. All engines have a sweet spot, the 3 valve 4.6 happens to be at around 3,500. My 02 ZX-2 with the zetec 2.0 would come alive at 5,000 - 7,000 rpm's, it felt like a different motor at those rpm's. Thats why gears are so important, they get you into the sweet spot quicker

What is lost? My car gained right through the powerband with the CMCV deletes...

steedman07 said:
You are not correct about "real hp" when adding headers to s-197's, they net very little for the cost of parts and labor in relation to $$-hp ratio...

You are 100% correct on the rest of the mods, mostly gears..IMO gears are one of the biggest seat-of-the-pants mods you can do besides F/I..We need to get our sleds up the rpm range quicker to the sweet spot of the power curve,and gears are the answer..

Shorties are not worth effort. Long tubes have been proven to show 20 - 25 RWHP on minor bolt-on N/A 3V cars, considerably more on F/I cars. Whether 20 - 25 RWHP is worth the cost to you or not is the question...

ranger04 · Jun 8, 2008

I guess my point is that the tumble flaps are there for a reason, by removing them might net a little more hp, but what do you loose in the proscess. Lowend is pretty important on a street driven car. I would rather have some power at the bottem and a little less at the top on my DD. However, if it doesn't matter to you, then go for it, every little bit of hp helps. Even if it's only 5 hp, that would be 5 more than you had.

DarkFireGT · Jun 8, 2008

Mine gained all through the powerband as well. Your tune will determine how much you gain or lose with these. It may lose a bit at part throttle, which is what therer there for. But at WOT, there's definitely no loss. Races aren't won at part throttle.

steedman07 · Jun 8, 2008

DarkFireGT said:
Mine gained all through the powerband as well. Your tune will determine how much you gain or lose with these. It may lose a bit at part throttle, which is what therer there for. But at WOT, there's definitely no loss. Races aren't won at part throttle.

+1 on how its custom tuned...I wouldnt have gotten them if I knew my car doesnt get custom tuned on a regular basis...

NastyStang113 · Jun 8, 2008

Too many people talk about these who don't know what they are talking about and they steer people away from them because of it. It's not right to do it. CMCVs when tuned properly do not cause any loss of torque, loss of part throttle power, loss of mileage, etc.

Someone even mentioned that cams were good, among other things. I disagree, you said CMCVs were bad and you think cams are a good mod. That's a double negative. I've seen cams on the dyno, many times. Comp Cams gain 30 rwhp above 3,500 RPMs and lose 30 rwhp, from before the cams, below 3,500 RPMs. That's not very good for driveability if you ask me, I like part throttle power.

NotQuik said:
so was it worth the cost and does the car seem more responsive at all? Whenever I get an xcal I too plan on taking it to justin for a tune, heard many good things about his tunes.

Yes, I'm happy with them. I was only looking to keep my car N/A so doing whatever I could for more power was worth it. They are only a little bit more than a hundred dollars and an hours worth of work, so it's not a big deal. Justin's tunes are flat out awesome.

Hoboattacker · Jun 8, 2008

Long Tubes give a good 20-25rwhp and a considerable amount of TQ, also. So I don't know where that came from. Also, positive displacement superchargers (Whipple, KB, Saleen, Roush, TVS Eaton, Magnacharger, etc...) all have a "delete plate" built in to them so you don't have to buy them. Now, if you have a Vortec, Paxton, Procharger, etc... (centri) you would need to buy a set since they don't change the intake manifold at all. They just hook up to the existing TB location.

On a side note, ThumperMX113, nice looking car, nice looking girl, but I hate Florida

BudgetPlan1 · Jun 9, 2008

Very interesting info; thanks for the replies.

It would be nice if car had a more 'linear' pull to it but such is life.

Still a blast, I actually prefer driving this car to the Vette; the Mustang seems more 'go cart-ish' in size.

Do all 4.6 3V's give that kick at about 35-4000rpm?

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