DYNOED BRENSPEED AND BAMA TODAY

CLUBSFIT · Jul 8, 2007

Hi everyone, dynoed 3 mail order 93 octane tunes tunes back to back today, and here are the results. OK, I will post the diferences, actuall #'s dont matter because of all the different dynos, weather etc. I can say that I was wrong on my wild card. Blue Oval Chips was my wild card, and although s.o.p. felt the fastest it was the lowest.

Blue Oval- 284hp and 282tq
Brenspeed- 285hp and 299tq
B ama tune- 294hp and 311tq

All tunes ran once, then re-loaded and ran again to be fair. Seems very low w/my mods, but although corrected, it was 95 degrees, and very humid. Also the shop was set up for imports, so mine ran backward on the dyno compared to how they had the ventilation and cooling set up. On one hand I was pissed at the peak #'s but on the other there was a ton on real # differences, and realized that are cars continue to pull when he shut it down at 6500rpm, which surprised me. The other thing was all tunes ran 13 to 2? air/fuel. Will I pick anything up adding more fuel?, And what is the max you should have your rev. limiter??

_____________________________

05 GT 5SP. C&L,PULLEY,4:10,19LB DRIVESHAFT,OFF ROAD PROCHAMBER,GTA'S,TRI-AX,PRO-KIT,TOKICOS,SPHOON LCAS & PANHARD,20" STAGGERED OZ WHEELS,ECLIPSE DVD,NAV,TV. ROCKFORD 6X8,STEEDA INTERIOR, DOUG,JUSTIN,LONNY,BRENT TUNES

tag4car · Jul 8, 2007

doug is a true master

DarkFireGT · Jul 8, 2007

Why were you disappointed with the peak numbers? The only mods you have that would affect your HP are an intake, tune, and off-road pipe (which may actually be costing you a bit since you're not forced induction). Your numbers are right where they should be. With a bamachips 91 tune on our '05 and almost the exact same mods, we hit 287HP and 304TQ, and the AFR was a little off on the top end, so your numbers are dead on. My '07 stock ran 249HP, so that's an increase of about 40 horse.

kooldawg6 · Jul 8, 2007

#s like that from Bama may just make me purchase some tunes from him to try out
Plus I've read a few times on here that 4.10s could actually show a drop in power.

CLUBSFIT · Jul 8, 2007

I am sure the gears cost me some peak power, but they sure make stop light to stop light fun I guess I expected to be well above the 300hp mark? I think though if I ran Bama 1st, I would have hit the 300?! I ran it last.

DarkFireGT · Jul 8, 2007

Yeah, we've got 4.`0's too and I figure that probably takes a few hp away. If it was cool out and it was the first or second run, you could probably hit 300 with the bama tune.

red05bullitgt · Jul 8, 2007

CLUBSFIT said:
Hi everyone, dynoed 3 mail order 93 octane tunes tunes back to back today, and here are the results. OK, I will post the diferences, actuall #'s dont matter because of all the different dynos, weather etc. I can say that I was wrong on my wild card. Blue Oval Chips was my wild card, and although s.o.p. felt the fastest it was the lowest.

Blue Oval- 284hp and 282tq
Brenspeed- 285hp and 299tq
B ama tune- 294hp and 311tq

All tunes ran once, then re-loaded and ran again to be fair. Seems very low w/my mods, but although corrected, it was 95 degrees, and very humid. Also the shop was set up for imports, so mine ran backward on the dyno compared to how they had the ventilation and cooling set up. On one hand I was pissed at the peak #'s but on the other there was a ton on real # differences, and realized that are cars continue to pull when he shut it down at 6500rpm, which surprised me. The other thing was all tunes ran 13 to 2? air/fuel. Will I pick anything up adding more fuel?, And what is the max you should have your rev. limiter??

_____________________________

05 GT 5SP. C&L,PULLEY,4:10,19LB DRIVESHAFT,OFF ROAD PROCHAMBER,GTA'S,TRI-AX,PRO-KIT,TOKICOS,SPHOON LCAS & PANHARD,20" STAGGERED OZ WHEELS,ECLIPSE DVD,NAV,TV. ROCKFORD 6X8,STEEDA INTERIOR, DOUG,JUSTIN,LONNY,BRENT TUNES

I'm not quite sure, that I'm reading you're mod sig correctly, but are you also running underdrive pulleys and aluminum driveshaft ? because if you are..then yes, your dyno numbers are a bit on the low side...My dyno results, with just Steeda underdrive pulleys, 93 Bama tune, and Steeda CAI are 293 RWHP and 309 RWTQ

DarkFireGT · Jul 8, 2007

red05bullitgt said:
I'm not quite sure, that I'm reading you're mod sig correctly, but are you also running underdrive pulleys and aluminum driveshaft ? because if you are..then yes, your dyno numbers are a bit on the low side...My dyno results, with just Steeda underdrive pulleys, 93 Bama tune, and Steeda CAI are 293 RWHP and 309 RWTQ

Every dyno is different. The only way to compare numbers on a dyno is if you're using the same dyno. If not, then we would have to know what you put down stock to see how much you actually gained.

red05bullitgt · Jul 8, 2007

DarkFireGT said:
Every dyno is different. The only way to compare numbers on a dyno is if you're using the same dyno. If not, then we would have to know what you put down stock to see how much you actually gained.

I'm well aware of that, Darkfire...as my point was not to compare numbers, but my question was, as to whether or not, he's running an aluminum driveshaft, and underdrive pulleys, along with the other mods, he has listed under his signature ? And if he is..Then his numbers should be higher, if his car was dyno tested, on a dynojet. Especially, with an off road prochamber

superman112 · Jul 10, 2007

dont forget he has 20 inch rim and tires.. I'm sure the extra wiegh isnt helping either.

LEE93COBRA · Jul 10, 2007

just a note.
Aluminum d/s and wheel size is going to have no effect on hp readings.
Nice #'s to the the thread starter.

red05bullitgt · Jul 10, 2007

Now that you mention it Lee...this would seem to make sense, as tire size along with an aluminum d/s, really shouldn't affect HP numbers on a dynojet..However, I believe that his numbers, should be just a bit higher, being that he's running an off road prochamber and if I read his sig correctly ? he's also running underdrive pulleys, as well..

LEE93COBRA · Jul 10, 2007

red05bullitgt said:
Now that you mention it Lee...this would seem to make sense, as tire size along with an aluminum d/s, really shouldn't affect HP numbers on a dynojet..However, I believe that his numbers, should be just a bit higher, being that he's running an off road prochamber and if I read his sig correctly ? he's also running underdrive pulleys, as well..

While I do not have my own personal car to experiment with (S197 that is), it is my understanding that exhaust mods do not do anything for these cars until you get in the poweradder (boost) territory.

Are there any documented gains for udp's on these cars. I know from experience that there are no hp gains worth mentioning from them on the early 4.6's and 5.0's

hethj7 · Jul 10, 2007

LEE93COBRA said:
just a note.
Aluminum d/s and wheel size is going to have no effect on hp readings.
Nice #'s to the the thread starter.

Although the above statement is commonly taken as truth, I have to disagree. While you may not actually see the difference on a dyno because it is so small, if all other factors are held constant, these do affect power at the rear wheels (obviously an engine dyno wouldn't be affected by drivetrain changes).

Rotational motion is given by Torque = Rotational Inertia * Angular Accelaration. Dynomometeres measure how quickly your car can turn the drums (angular acceleration) against the known rotational inertia of the dyno rollers. This gives you the Torque you are making at the wheels, which is then used to calculate horsepower based on RPM.

Rotational Inertia for a hoop is I = Mass * Radius Squared. The "hoop" in this case is the driveshaft or the wheel. A lighter driveshaft reduces mass, which gives you less inertia and allows the drivetrain to accelerate faster. Alternately, a larger wheel increases your radius, which increases your inertia and causes acceleration to decresase. If accelation is slower, that directly means Torque is lower, which directly affects horsepower.

Although the dyno actually measures against the known inertia of the rollers, the same concept applies throughout the entire drivetrain of a car. If you install a lighter flywheel or lighter driveshaft, you decrease inertia and can increase the acceleration of your motor/drivetrain combo. This essentially increases the efficiency of the drivetrain, meaning you lose less power trying to turn your drivetrain and are able to deliver more of the engine's power at the wheels (where the dyno is taking its measurements).

I don't know how well a job I did of explaining that, but hopefully it makes some sense.

Hoboattacker · Jul 11, 2007

LEE93COBRA said:
While I do not have my own personal car to experiment with (S197 that is), it is my understanding that exhaust mods do not do anything for these cars until you get in the poweradder (boost) territory.

Are there any documented gains for udp's on these cars. I know from experience that there are no hp gains worth mentioning from them on the early 4.6's and 5.0's

The gains on UDP's are around 7-10rwhp IIRC.

Exhaust does have an effect on these cars, although you can't just add new mufflers and gain HP. You have to add an Off-road pipe of some sort of Long Tubes to see gains from exhaust.

LEE93COBRA · Jul 11, 2007

hethj7 said:
Although the above statement is commonly taken as truth, I have to disagree. While you may not actually see the difference on a dyno because it is so small, if all other factors are held constant, these do affect power at the rear wheels (obviously an engine dyno wouldn't be affected by drivetrain changes).

Rotational motion is given by Torque = Rotational Inertia * Angular Accelaration. Dynomometeres measure how quickly your car can turn the drums (angular acceleration) against the known rotational inertia of the dyno rollers. This gives you the Torque you are making at the wheels, which is then used to calculate horsepower based on RPM.

Rotational Inertia for a hoop is I = Mass * Radius Squared. The "hoop" in this case is the driveshaft or the wheel. A lighter driveshaft reduces mass, which gives you less inertia and allows the drivetrain to accelerate faster. Alternately, a larger wheel increases your radius, which increases your inertia and causes acceleration to decresase. If accelation is slower, that directly means Torque is lower, which directly affects horsepower.

Although the dyno actually measures against the known inertia of the rollers, the same concept applies throughout the entire drivetrain of a car. If you install a lighter flywheel or lighter driveshaft, you decrease inertia and can increase the acceleration of your motor/drivetrain combo. This essentially increases the efficiency of the drivetrain, meaning you lose less power trying to turn your drivetrain and are able to deliver more of the engine's power at the wheels (where the dyno is taking its measurements).

I don't know how well a job I did of explaining that, but hopefully it makes some sense.

I understand what you are saying and I agree to an extent. While reducing rotational mass (flywheels, driveshaft, etc) does not improve rwhp readings it does improve the speed your engine will rev under load.

I didn't mean for my post to make it sound like there was no benefit from an aluminum d/s. Just nothing will show in hp readings. I installed an aftermarket d/s on an 05 three weeks ago and in my book it is definitly a necessity if you "track" these cars at all. The center joint in the OEM d/s looks like it could easily be trashed on the dragstrip if you drive like I do

red05bullitgt · Jul 11, 2007

Hoboattacker said:
The gains on UDP's are around 7-10rwhp IIRC.

Exhaust does have an effect on these cars, although you can't just add new mufflers and gain HP. You have to add an Off-road pipe of some sort of Long Tubes to see gains from exhaust.

+1.. as I've had my car dyno tested, on both a Mustang dyno and a dynojet, in which both confirm, my Stang gained an additional 10 HP, with Steeda UDP's...Although mufflers alone, won't gain any additional HP on the S-197 Mustang..Brenspeed has proven, that off road mid pipes will produce an additional 8-10 HP... While adding Long Tube headers, are also well known for producing an additional 15-20 HP gain, as well..

hethj7 · Jul 14, 2007

LEE93COBRA said:
I understand what you are saying and I agree to an extent. While reducing rotational mass (flywheels, driveshaft, etc) does not improve rwhp readings it does improve the speed your engine will rev under load.

Actually, reducing rotational mass does increase your RWHP. The lighter mass of the drivetrain increases the "efficiency" of the drivetrain, meaning less of your engine's power is used to rotate the drivetrain and more of it is delivered to the road.

Perhaps an oversimplified example can help us understand. Pretend you have a go-kart sitting on the road. With typical small go-kart tires on it, the car can put enough power to the road to run all over the place. Now, suppose you bolt up a set of large tractor tires to it. In this case, you may not even get the go-kart to move. If RWHP isn't affected by the size/mass of the wheels, then how can you explain the difference in performance between the two wheel sets (and yes, I'm aware the contact patch of the two tires has some play in this case, but the over-riding factor is the size/mass of the wheels)?

This topic is one that confuses people constantly. I'm a mechanical engineer, and it took me a while to fully grasp what is happening. The other topic that always creates confusion is whether or not changing your rear gear ratio increases RWHP (it doesn't), but that is a whole discussion we can save for later.

xtweakerx · Jul 15, 2007

urgh... i was now leaning towards getting bama instead of brenspeed but i dont see any combo's for Steeda + Their tune. That means id have to get the intake sep and then hand held sep. annoying.

Does anyone know if with the xcal2 tuner if/when you get the tire sensor fault from running something like radials w/ out the sensor u can clear it with the hand held?

DarkFireGT · Jul 15, 2007

Any particular reason you want to go with the Steeda intake? For what it's worth, the two that Doug sells (JLT and C&L Racer) have been proven to give the most gains. If you're dead set on the Steeda, you could buy it in a tuner kit from some place like American Muscle, then pay $75 for a tune from Doug.

DYNOED BRENSPEED AND BAMA TODAY

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