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Electrical Mayhem

  • Thread starter Thread starter ive_escaped
  • Start date Start date Apr 22, 2009
I

ive_escaped

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Dec 9, 2006
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Moss Point, Mississippi
Apr 22, 2009
#1
  • Apr 22, 2009
  • #1
I have a 88 Gt, It was running fine, then one day on a rainy day it spun around and quit cranking. I thougt it was the inertia switch, checked, it was fine, took it off and shook it to make sure it engaged and then relocked. Still did not crank. Told my brother who has owned and repaired numerous muscle cars and mustangs. He said a bad fuel pump, dropped the tank, new pump and filter, still no go. Started checking all electrical component. Replaced ignition switch on column and fuel relay under seat, still no go. Also the starter is sticking engaged now, had to pull the battery cable.

Note that when I mist starter fluid into the intake the car will run.

How much fuel pressure should my stang have at the check valve behind the alternator (40-50#)?

How do I check to make sure the pump is running, can the pump be jumped to run at the plug by the tank?

Have been told to replace the EEC relay in the kick panel by the computer, does that make sense?

Have been told to check the fusable links in the wiring harness, where are they located?

Are there any other fuses under the hood or in the panel on the dash that may be associated with the fuel system?

The solenoid is new, have checked spark, its good.

I just checked the power to the inertia switch and I have power to that switch plug. It is my understanding that from the inertia switch the next stop power travels is to the pump, is this correct? Because I do not have power to the plug that connects to the pump, I checked with my meter. Can you jump the pump to get power with a 12v charger just to check power or will it burn up the pump if you do that. And if you can which wires do you jump to?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.....
 

jrichker

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#2
  • Apr 22, 2009
  • #2
Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

A word about this checklist before you start: it is arranged in a specific order to put the most likely failure items first. That will save you time, energy and money. Start at the top of the list and work your way down. Jumping around will possibly cause you to miss just what you need to see to find and fix the problem. Don’t skip any steps because the next step depends on the last step working correctly.


Revised 22-Mar-2009 to change links for electrical diagrams
All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.

Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red

1.) Remove push on connector (small red/blue wire) from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.

No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) TFI module: use a test light to check the TFI module. Place one lead of the test light on the red/green wire on the ignition coil connector and the other lead on the dark green/yellow wire on the ignition coil connector. If the TFI is working properly, the test light will flash when the engine is cranked using the ignition switch.
C.) Coil
D.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. See paragraph 5A - a noid light will tell if the pip is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
E.) No ECC or computer power - ECC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
F.) No ECC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire. No 12 volts, blown fuse link or faulty ignition switch. Remove the plastic from around the ignition switch and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire with the switch in the Run position. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty. If 12 volts is present in the Run position, then the fuse or fuse link is blown.
Note: fuses or fuse links blow for a reason. Don’t replace either a fuse or fuse link with one with a larger rating than stock. Doing so invites an electrical fire.
Ignition fuse links may be replaced with an inline fuse holder and 5 amp fuse for troubleshooting purposes.
94-95 models only: Check inside fuse panel for fuse #18 blown – 20 amp fuse
H.) Missing or loose computer power ground. The computer has its own dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery. It is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire. You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness
I.) Computer.
J.) Bad or missing secondary power ground. It is located between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.
K.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

Wiring Diagrams:
Sorry, the AutoZone wiring diagram links no longer work. You can navigate to the diagrams yourself via AutoZone.com | Repair Info and select the year, make, model and engine. That will enable you to bring up the wiring diagram for your particular car.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Engine Information Everyone should bookmark this site.


Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 94-95 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability: [/b]
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.

Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.


If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.


4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.

5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector wiring.
The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and it will flash if the injector is firing.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
D.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
E.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
F.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
G.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.99 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.

6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB or improperly set base idle (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car. See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
F. ) Engine that has had the heads off or valves adjusted. Do a compression test to make sure the valves are not adjusted too tight. You should have a minimum of 90 PSI on a cold engine.

Continues to crank without turning the key
The starter solenoid has probably welded it's contacts together. To test this, reconnect the battery and pull the small red/blue wire off the screw post it is stuck on. If it is and ignition swich problem, the starter will stop cranking. If it is welded solenoid contacts, the starter will continue to crank. Smacking the back side of the solenoid will often unstick the contacts.

Starter solenoid wiring diagram...
Starter solenoid wiring 86-91 5.0 Mustangs with standard starter

 
I

ive_escaped

New Member
Dec 9, 2006
7
0
0
Moss Point, Mississippi
Apr 22, 2009
#3
  • Apr 22, 2009
  • #3
Thank you for the information, I wish I had this earlier, lol. I have replaced ignition switch, fuel relay, solenoid, starter, fuel pump, and filter. I have power to the inertia switch on the red with black stripe, used a circuit tester. Pump is not coming on. Will check the pump test at the hood hinge. Again thank you for taking the time to respond with a wealth of information.
 
I

ive_escaped

New Member
Dec 9, 2006
7
0
0
Moss Point, Mississippi
Apr 22, 2009
#4
  • Apr 22, 2009
  • #4
Also when I spray ether, it cranks.
 
I

ive_escaped

New Member
Dec 9, 2006
7
0
0
Moss Point, Mississippi
Apr 22, 2009
#5
  • Apr 22, 2009
  • #5
When I ran the test jumper to see if the pump would turn on it did
 
I

ive_escaped

New Member
Dec 9, 2006
7
0
0
Moss Point, Mississippi
Apr 22, 2009
#6
  • Apr 22, 2009
  • #6
I have 12v at the injectors. I have good fuel pressure when I tested the pump. One question, when i try to run the test again should the pump come on again or does the pressure have to drop below a certain point. And if all of the other items check ok does that mean that the computer is bad.
 

jrichker

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In Remembrance. Thank you for your contributions
Mar 10, 2000
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Apr 22, 2009
#7
  • Apr 22, 2009
  • #7
This is the single most important part of the checklist:

"A word about this checklist before you start: it is arranged in a specific order to put the most likely failure items first. That will save you time, energy and money. Start at the top of the list and work your way down. Jumping around will possibly cause you to miss just what you need to see to find and fix the problem. Don’t skip any steps because the next step depends on the last step working correctly."

Did you do the noid light test? Do you have spark when the engine is cranked?

Computers seldom fail, usually it is wiring or a sensor that has gone bad.
 
I

ive_escaped

New Member
Dec 9, 2006
7
0
0
Moss Point, Mississippi
Apr 23, 2009
#8
  • Apr 23, 2009
  • #8
I have power to all items, but the car will not crank at all. I have run all tests in order except where I get to a point where I have power and there are no other steps. The car just whirls over and over. I have checked to make sure it has not jumped time by bringing to tdc and checking timing marks etc... I ran the jumper to the fuel pump and it primed had good pressure @35# at schrader valve behind alternator. I checked for 12v at the injectors, had power. Have checked coil fire, spark plug wires, etc... Fixing to replace EEC relay. Have been told to replace TFI module, what is that, where is that, have been told that it is the module on the side of the distributor.
 

jrichker

StangNet's favorite TOOL
In Remembrance. Thank you for your contributions
Mar 10, 2000
27,512
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234
Dublin GA
Apr 23, 2009
#9
  • Apr 23, 2009
  • #9
Noid light test? Are you sure the injectors are firing?

Once I had a similar situation, everything seemed to be good. It turned out to be the ignition coil. It would produce spark, just not enough to make the engine run.
 
I

ive_escaped

New Member
Dec 9, 2006
7
0
0
Moss Point, Mississippi
Apr 23, 2009
#10
  • Apr 23, 2009
  • #10
I pulled the coil wire off the coil and its producing a very heavy blue spark 3 inches from metal ground. Instead of replacing the pick up coil and tfi (ignition control module) I found that it was cheaper to just buy a new distributor. So I am trying to stab it right now. Seems it just does not want to go. Also replaced the eec relay did not work. If all of these tests dont get me anywhere and a new distributor dont get me anywhere I assume that the only conclusion is that the ecu (brain box) is dead. Would that be correct? I cant think of anything else that would need replacing. I dont mind buying new parts, I am going to completely restore the car anyway.
 
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