floors pans

a_turbo_stang · May 12, 2009

Is it better to replace the full floor pans or just the short sections that they sell?
I went to 2 shops. One told me not to replace the full pan only do the sections unless absolutly neccasary.
The other shop said to replace the whole pans. Dont mess with replacing sections.

Whats the best way to do this? My whole floors are not toast....

2+2GT · May 12, 2009

Depends on how much work is involved in the areas you need to repair. The side panels are short, medium, and long. If you needed, say, a short and a medium, your close to making it easier to just go for a full one-piece floor, the way the factory did it.

10secgoal · May 13, 2009

If it needs front and rear, do a full sheet per side. Only what you have to. A full floor sucks, and takes way more time.

109jb · May 13, 2009

If the driveshaft tunnel is good then leave it and replace the pans only. I would go ahead and do the full pans though.

Edit: Oh yeah. When you do it you will have to pull the seat bases and you may want to consider shortening them especially if you are tall. An easy mod that will give you a bit more headroom.

a_turbo_stang · May 13, 2009

Yea I need front and rears. It is rusted pretty good where the big drain holes are in the pans.
The tunnel is perfect.
I may check into the seat mod. Thanks!

2+2GT · May 13, 2009

10secgoal said:
If it needs front and rear, do a full sheet per side. Only what you have to. A full floor sucks, and takes way more time.

109jb said:
If the driveshaft tunnel is good then leave it and replace the pans only. I would go ahead and do the full pans though.

Having done it both ways, I would say replacing the pans and using the original tunnel is a LOT more work and leaves you with welds in many places that were smooth on the original floor. Seriously, WAY more work to do two full length floors than to just put in a new one.

109jb · May 13, 2009

2+2GT said:
Having done it both ways, I would say replacing the pans and using the original tunnel is a LOT more work and leaves you with welds in many places that were smooth on the original floor. Seriously, WAY more work to do two full length floors than to just put in a new one.

Cutting out the whole floor removes a major portion of the structure of the car. If you go this route you have to make sure that you have the car leveled and supported before you remove the floor. Not a big deal. Doing the pans you can pretty much do one side at a time and what remains will still have enough structural rigidity to keep the car straight. You also have to consider truck ship charge too unless you are close enough to pick up the full floor. The pans can be UPS'd. As far as the welds, it depends on if you care. For a concours resto yes, but anything else and I would not care because you'd have to crawl under the car or pull the carpet to tell. Personally, I would do what costs less because either method will yield a solid floor.

10secgoal · May 13, 2009

2+2GT said:
Having done it both ways, I would say replacing the pans and using the original tunnel is a LOT more work and leaves you with welds in many places that were smooth on the original floor. Seriously, WAY more work to do two full length floors than to just put in a new one.

Can you so close up picks. You must have had one that fit REALLY well. I had to split the pan in the tunnel on the new one, and the original to get them to meet. then in the back behind the torque boxes had to completely cut them off and put metal strips in because they were too short. Took me an extra an extra 12 hrs to do a 1 peice than the normal 2 full sections. With the 2 pieces you put it against the rocker and lay it out. Where it lay is where it lays, no biggie. Not like that with the one piece though. Last one just really sucked.

BarnStang · May 13, 2009

I think the one piece floor pan is way more work than left & right full length floor pans. Yea, your must have fit perfect. THere is so much more to remove. And you have to fit the pan, mark it, remove it, drill the holes for the plug welds, put it back in and fit it right. It looks great but is a ton more labor. It comes in and out through the windshield opening...others have said it can be put in and taken out from underneath, but I haven't tried that. I can do ful lenghth floor pans in a day or a little more.

other_shoe · May 13, 2009

Just curious: If it's not a vert, do you bring the one-piece floor in through the windshield opening? And if so, do you have to remove the steering column?

I can't imagine getting it rotated into place coming in through the doors.

2+2GT · May 14, 2009

other_shoe said:
Just curious: If it's not a vert, do you bring the one-piece floor in through the windshield opening? And if so, do you have to remove the steering column?

I can't imagine getting it rotated into place coming in through the doors.

No, much easier than that. Remove the drive shaft (and brake cable, etc.), and slide it in from underneath.

I live near a shop that restores Mustangs, and they have don numerous full floor replacements, and the floors fit very well, no need to slit them, etc.

Full floor replacement:
Remove (or lower) fuel and brake lines & exhaust
Remove drive shaft
Remove seat pans
Remove floors
Prep pinchwelds on rockers, torque boxes, front rails, firewall
Spotweld pinchwelds on rockers, torque boxes, front rails, firewall
Seam seal edges

Long side floor replacement:
Remove (or lower) fuel and brake lines
Remove seat pans
Remove floors
Prep pinchwelds on rockers, torque boxes, front rails, firewall
Spotweld pinchwelds on rockers, torque boxes, front rails, firewall
Buttweld or lap weld eight feet of transmission tunnel on both sides
Grind weld smooth as needed
Seam seal edges and tunnel welds

It's the tunnel welding that gets you, that's a whole extra day, plus now you're stuck with long welds where the factory had none.

Doing it the old way with the side pans would cost over $500 more, and give less satisfactory results. Even if you do it yourself, it's still more work the old way.

BarnStang · May 14, 2009

It sounds to me that they are trying to make a bunch of money on a one piece floor pan. It's certainly more profitable to do them due to the cost of the parts. But is not easier by any streach of the imagination. Getting hung up on the welds in the tunnel is reserved for show cars and thoses who want it, or floor pans that are completely rusted out. There is no way I would try to sell a customer a one piece floor pan if it wasen't warrented. $500 more? I would shop that around.

If you don't want the welded seams, don't put the full lenghth pans in. If you want it to look factory original, get a one piece.

2+2GT · May 14, 2009

BarnStang said:
It sounds to me that they are trying to make a bunch of money on a one piece floor pan. It's certainly more profitable to do them due to the cost of the parts. But is not easier by any streach of the imagination. Getting hung up on the welds in the tunnel is reserved for show cars and thoses who want it, or floor pans that are completely rusted out. There is no way I would try to sell a customer a one piece floor pan if it wasen't warrented. $500 more? I would shop that around.

If you don't want the welded seams, don't put the full lenghth pans in. If you want it to look factory original, get a one piece.

Have you done both? I'm telling you, people get scared of the big piece because it's big. It's less work, period. Sure it costs more, because it's big, and it costs more to ship, because it's big.

If you were paying to have your floor done, and the shop was using two long floors, the labor will be nearly $1000 more than if they were using the one piece. The part costs more, so it balances out somewhat, but there is no comparison in the results. If they use the two piece, they are ripping you off on the labor. Period.

BarnStang · May 14, 2009

2+2GT said:
Have you done both? I'm telling you, people get scared of the big piece because it's big. It's less work, period. Sure it costs more, because it's big, and it costs more to ship, because it's big.

If you were paying to have your floor done, and the shop was using two long floors, the labor will be nearly $1000 more than if they were using the one piece. The part costs more, so it balances out somewhat, but there is no comparison in the results. If they use the two piece, they are ripping you off on the labor. Period.

Not in my shop (ripping people off on the labor). I've done 10-12 one piece floors, one on a 68 GT 500, and 30-40 full length pans. Believe what you want. It seems to be really important to you. I know what my customers get and thats that. I won't debate this further. It's not contributing to the intent of the thread.

2+2GT · May 14, 2009

BarnStang said:
I've done 10-12 one piece floors, one on a 68 GT 500, and 30-40 full length pans.

How many hours do you bill for each way?

109jb · May 14, 2009

2+2GT said:
It's the tunnel welding that gets you, that's a whole extra day, plus now you're stuck with long welds where the factory had none.

A WHOLE EXTRA DAY TO WELD THE TUNNEL!!!!! That's one slow welder. I put both my long pans in in about 10 hours and that included fitting the new pans, drilling for the spot welds, and completely welding them in. I know it was about 10 hours because I did one each on two evenings after work. The old ones were mostly cut out because I had to put new rockers in, but I still had to trim the new pans and the cutout where they went. On top of that, it was my first time doing floor pans. As far as having a weld where the factory didn't, who cares unless it is a show car.

BarnStang · May 14, 2009

a-turbo-stang, I've done the sectional pans a bunch of times, and in case where the rust through is not extensive, I have been able to graft the sectional in where it meets the seat riser and you can't tell it was ever replaced. THat on the front pans. In most cases I don't even use the whole sectional piece. I only cut out the rust and graft in whats needed. THe plasma cutter makes this much easier and faster.
Check out this 67 Vert. 67 Vert pictures by Barnstang - Photobucket THere is one picture of a silver floor pan section-thats how we received the car. THey laid the repair panel over the old pan with the at least most of it cut away. I cut the section down the center of the frame rail lip on top and kept the original spot welds intact. CUt and fit the new piece with a flap wheel to drop right in and welded it up. From the bottom you can't tell it was replaced.

2+2GT · May 14, 2009

109jb said:
… I know it was about 10 hours because I did one each on two evenings after work.

The old ones were mostly cut out because I had to put new rockers in…

…but I still had to trim the new pans and the cutout where they went.

Sounds like you agree with me.

109jb · May 14, 2009

2+2GT said:
Sounds like you agree with me.

No I don't. The welding of the tunnel was a fraction of the 5 hours per pan to do it. Probably took about 30-45 minutes per side to make that weld. Also, as I said it was my first time doing floor pans. I spent extra time fitting and making sure things fit right because I had never done them. I can see a pro doing 2 long pans in much less time than it took me. I would bet that I could do 2 long pans in about 1/2 the time now because my confidence level is much higher and I feel more comfortable about it. As I said before, I would honestly go with the lower price simply because either route gets you a solid floor and I could care less about having a weld along the sides of the tunnel. You obviously feel strongly about the one piece floor and not having those bad terrible unsightly welds that nobody can see. Good for you. All I care about is if the floor is solid and serves its structural purpose. I really doubt that you could do a full floor quicker, but who cares. The floor pans I bought were $100 for the pair. A full floor from the same vendor is $450 plus the pans can be UPS'd and the full floor is an extra $150 for truck shipping. Even if the UPS charge was $50 for the pans, that is still a $600 versus $150 price just for the parts.

2+2GT · May 15, 2009

Hmmm… We may be talking at cross-purposes here. The shop I work with takes 16 hours for a pair of long floors, and a bit more, maybe 17 for a one piece floor. Of course, the tunnel work is buttwelded when they do partial floors, so no doubt takes a lot longer than the typical hobbyist.

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