Ford GT dyno numbers are in !

Z28x · Mar 17, 2004

kirkyg said:
Im sure the caddie is a nice quality vehicle inside and out but thats all it is. No style imo. (BTW, if you had shown the back it would have really revealed its uglyness but we wouldn't want to do that now would we it would prove yourself wrong).

If you your not a fan of the new Caddy style thats fine, some people are more conservative than others. The car are very far from Ugly and that got the sales #'s to prove it.

kirkyg · Mar 17, 2004

I'm not conservative at all...i love the original viper styling more than the new one and more than most other sports cars because its soo aggressive and "cutting edge" but there is a difference between new and aggressive. This is new...thats all imo.

ugh that back makes me want to throw up. Looks like how they took the avalanche grill and slapped it on the previous silverados and made it the new style

kirkyg

GelatiCruiser · Mar 17, 2004

"the car was hazing the tires on the dyno"

and it still put out 565??? Oh my....things are going to start heating up on the streets.

Z28x · Mar 17, 2004

GelatiCruiser said:
"the car was hazing the tires on the dyno"

and it still put out 565??? Oh my....things are going to start heating up on the streets.

I just hope they don't all become garage queens like the '00 Cobra R

RICKS · Mar 17, 2004

Look at the vehicle side. It looks like the profile of one of the newer mercedes.

If the side profile of a CTS looks like a newer mercedes to you, then I'm wasting time talking about styling issues with you, there's little point in it. My cat could toss out more valid and adroit comparisons. Obviously you don't like the CTS, which is fine, I don't think anybody's going to lose sleep over your car preferences. Think about how many people absolutely GAGGED when Ford released the 1999 Mustang, just like the car you're currently tooling around in. Those people's opinions were no less knee-jerk than your own here. The car buying market seems to love the CTS, given its decent success, and even most of us blue-oval nuts on here seem to like it as well. So you're arguing a totally moot point. And no, they didn't slap a truck nose on the CTS. That design theme was created by Cadillac for all of its vehicles with the INTENTION of tying all of their products together with a cohesive look, so that all the vehicles looked like a family of vehicles, a-la Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Volvo, etc.etc...... A very very wise move on their part, not dumb, not GM "screwing up". Yeah, screwing up all the way to the bank!! And hey!!! HOW ABOUT THEM FORD GT DYNO #'S!!!!

kirkyg · Mar 17, 2004

I guess were all just wasting our time talking about our 'opines'. But i think that chevy's motivation for their styling is not near as thought out as you think it is.

kirkyg

RICKS · Mar 17, 2004

Chevy? I thought we were talking Caddy. And, yes, the caddy styling theme strategy is extremely thought out and was evidenced in concept cars over 5 years ago when they plainly stated that the Evoq concept represented the look of the future for Cadillac across the ENTIRE product line. Check out http://caddyedge.com/Models/Concepts/

I find that AutoWeek is the best mag to subscribe to when it comes to keeping your pulse on what's "coming" and happening in the auto industry. They reported extensively on Cadillacs total corporate styling makeover way back in '99, and as a weekly publication with a much faster lead-time, they always beat the pants off of the big mags like C&D and MT and R&T when it comes to breaking new stories and info.

Now I can agree on Chevy styling being totally BLAH and uninspired, with the exception of the new Vette which looks far crisper and better than the blob it's replacing.

kirkyg · Mar 17, 2004

Perhaps you are unaware but GM makes cadillac vehicles and is frequently referred to as 'chevy'

The silverado got a styling make over as well ... seen it lately?

The new vette and the cobalt are the only two vehicles that GM makes that i find even somewhat attractive. Again thats just my opinion but i know there are tons and tons of people that feel generally the same. Thats why GM is losing customers now and it will most likely continue that trend until they get their act together.

kirkyg

RICKS · Mar 17, 2004

Perhaps you are unaware but GM makes cadillac vehicles and is frequently referred to as 'chevy'

Huh???? Maybe Bubba sitting in the cheap seats at Darlington refers to all GM products "Chevy", but beyond that, that's ludicrous. Chevrolet is a division of GM. Cadillac is another division of GM. Buick is another division of GM. Nobody I know refers to GM as "Chevy" any more than they would refer to Ford by saying "Volvo" or "Mercury". And, where is the data to back up this "GM is losing customers" stuff? And don't try to school me on automotive corporate structure, I've got a pretty good handle on that kind of history, right back to the fact that that Cadillac and Lincoln were both founded by the same guy, Henry Leland, who sold Cadillac to GM prior to creating Lincoln. Which has nothing to do with RWHP on a new Ford GT But ties all of the rambling we've been doing with Caddy styling and Lincoln LS h.p. figures into a nice tidy knot!

Z28x · Mar 17, 2004

kirkyg said:
The new vette and the cobalt are the only two vehicles that GM makes that i find even somewhat attractive. Again thats just my opinion but i know there are tons and tons of people that feel generally the same. Thats why GM is losing customers now and it will most likely continue that trend until they get their act together.

kirkyg

Actually Chevy and Cadillac sales are up, Cadillac just broke a 15 year sales record, and Chevy just overtook Ford and is now the #1 selling brand in the USA. Also in 2003 GM sold more fullsize pickup that Ford.

RICKS · Mar 17, 2004

And what exactly does the Chevy Silverado makeover have to do with anything?

GTPlus · Mar 17, 2004

Z28x said:
Actually Chevy and Cadillac sales are up, Cadillac just broke a 15 year sales record, and Chevy just overtook Ford and is now the #1 selling brand in the USA. Also in 2003 GM sold more fullsize pickup that Ford.

Not sure where you're getting the brand numbers but according to Automotive News the 2003 sales for Ford Division was 2.88 Million vs. Chevys 2.46 million.

Z28x · Mar 17, 2004

GTPlus said:
Not sure where you're getting the brand numbers but according to Automotive News the 2003 sales for Ford Division was 2.88 Million vs. Chevys 2.46 million.

I was looking at the sales figures in the April '04 MotorTrend, my bad, it is Cars, not brand.

For car sales it is #1 = Chevy, #2 = Toyota, #3 = Ford, #4 = Honda
last year it at this time was #1 = Toyota, #2 = Ford, #3 = Honda, #4 = Chevy. Chevy car sales are on the incline.

Do you have a link to that page on Automotive News, I'm interested to see the stats on other brands.

RICKS · Mar 17, 2004

Haven't you heard? "GM's losing customers" LOL. But I do not believe that Chevy eclipsed Ford in full-sized truck sales in '03. To my knowledge, Ford has owned that crown for alot of years now (15 years straight?), including 2003. The big question was whether the new F150 would be able to defend that crown, which it appears that it will, handily. Both Ford and GM sell absolute butt-loads of trucks though, no matter who's #1 or who's #2, they both have loyal and stable followings. I think GM's biggest bonehead move of late is dumping Olds, and keeping Buick. I would have done the opposite, I think Olds has better heritage and has historically had better cars and better successes within GM.

kirkyg · Mar 17, 2004

Z28x said:
Actually Chevy and Cadillac sales are up, Cadillac just broke a 15 year sales record, and Chevy just overtook Ford and is now the #1 selling brand in the USA. Also in 2003 GM sold more fullsize pickup that Ford.

Actually no it was a 10 year sales record this year. Top since 1994 i just looked it up.

I'm aware they are selling more because they are advertising more. Someone i used to work with used to talk about cars with me. He always said 'all they have to do is put 4 wheels on it and give it an engine and they'll sell the hell out of them.'

I believe that statement more now than ever. The point was it doesn't matter if it looks like a pile up dung on wheels they'll sell if the discount them enough.

Chevy overtook ford a while back. The funny thing is its like the stock market. In the nasdaq drop the first huge drop brought it down 50% what it was before (approximately). AFter that it started trading up. % wise it shot up 20%!!!!!!!!! Needless to say the nasdaq now trades at about 35% of what it originally did and thats after a year long meaningful rally. All your seeing with chevy right now is a price war and liquidating inventory with low interest rates...THATS ALL. Id expect GM's sales to flatten out shortly and begin a decline.

kirkyg

kirkyg · Mar 17, 2004

RICKS said:
Haven't you heard? "GM's losing customers" LOL. But I do not believe that Chevy eclipsed Ford in full-sized truck sales in '03. To my knowledge, Ford has owned that crown for alot of years now (15 years straight?), including 2003. The big question was whether the new F150 would be able to defend that crown, which it appears that it will, handily. Both Ford and GM sell absolute butt-loads of trucks though, no matter who's #1 or who's #2, they both have loyal and stable followings. I think GM's biggest bonehead move of late is dumping Olds, and keeping Buick. I would have done the opposite, I think Olds has better heritage and has historically had better cars and better successes within GM.

Your just living in the past man...sigh Dont you people get it. GM has no interest in bringing back a true muscle car heritage. They dont believe it will improve their bottom line. Their marketing has not fit that style for a VERY long time. Oldsmobile and buick should have both been cut but out of the two definitely buick will sell more because its the defacto old-people-brand.

kirkyg

Z28x · Mar 17, 2004

kirkyg said:
All your seeing with chevy right now is a price war and liquidating inventory with low interest rates...THATS ALL. Id expect GM's sales to flatten out shortly and begin a decline.

kirkyg

I wouldn't count on it, quality is up big time, and they have a ton of neww models on the way. THe Japs are done for

5-SpeedStallion · Mar 17, 2004

shatner saves said:
Not really. With that type of gearbox/final drive unit and no driveshaft to spin, driveline loss could actually be pretty low for a car like this.

True, but the fact is, few other cars employ such a system and therefore a Viper that runs even w/ this car in 565whp form would have to produce ~650hp assuming similar weight because those drivetrains DO have siginificant loss. Basically, if this is true, no Z06, Viper, or Lamborghini for that matter makes anywhere near this kind of rear-wheel power and that's what really matters. I can advertise 1000hp but if I lose 80% to the wheels, I'd lose to stock GT's. WHP is what matters and no cars in its class put down that kind of power.

kirkyg · Mar 17, 2004

Z28x said:
I wouldn't count on it, quality is up big time, and they have a ton of neww models on the way. THe Japs are done for

hahaha too freakin funny man. Japs are FAR from done for and GM is far from all about quality

kirkyg

65conv50 · Mar 17, 2004

kirkyg said:
I dont care whether your a fanboy or not...the new cadillacs are UGLY and i know ALOT of people that agree.

kirkyg

I'm one that agrees - the CTS is butt-ugly. Looks like it was folded from cardboard. And it replaced a really nice-looking Catera. As the song goes "What were they thinking???"

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