GT500 brakes for us!!! How to get 14" brakes for less than a grand $$ ->

Back2Mustangs

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Just about the time I start thinking, I'm going to buy the 14" GT500 brake kit and machine my own brackets...someone beats me to it! All the better, I suppose, in case it turned out to be impossible, haha.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=897686&highlight=GT500+brakes

I still wonder how much simpler/cost effective it could be to use the brembo 4-piston calipers from the '00 Cobra R kit with some two-piece, 14" rotors to shed the weight of the additional rotating mass. (Similar to Baer's #2261026 which is only two, 2-piece, 14" rotors and brackets that push the stock caliper out to accept the larger diameter rotor)

I'm going to continue researching, but now I have seen that it can be done for a reasonable amount of money.
 
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Mustang5L5

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Pretty cool, but sucks that you have to custom machine the brackets.

But i dunno, the '00R kit is a Brembo caliper with 13" rotors. That's a pretty good setup for your average street car, so why do you need 14" brakes?


But then again, i would love to have 14" front brakes. I wonder if GT-500 brembos will ever become cheap to purchase. I doubt it
 

Pennywise2

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Unless you Auto-X or take your car to the track all
the time 14" brakes are a huge waste of money.
The 13" Cobra brake upgrade will be just as efficient
performance wise.
 

hotmustang331

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Its all about opinion and perspective. IMHO my 100% stock breaks stop very well.

I couldnt tell any difference when driving 2 03-04 cobras and 1 2003 mach 1. ofcourse I didnt break check them or look for a difference lol, but in fairly normal driving I noticed no difference. As in nothing stood out like "wow this car stops alot easier!". So meh im totally happy with my stockers.

But me saying that stocks are more than enough is the same thing you guys are saying about the 14" breaks. If you like having more breaks, then larger is better.
 

tomustang

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Its all about opinion and perspective. IMHO my 100% stock breaks stop very well.

I couldnt tell any difference when driving 2 03-04 cobras and 1 2003 mach 1. ofcourse I didnt break check them or look for a difference lol, but in fairly normal driving I noticed no difference. As in nothing stood out like "wow this car stops alot easier!". So meh im totally happy with my stockers.
one word: brake fade
 

tomustang

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Just about the time I start thinking, I'm going to buy the 14" GT500 brake kit and machine my own brackets...someone beats me to it! All the better, I suppose, in case it turned out to be impossible, haha.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=897686&highlight=GT500+brakes

I still wonder how much simpler/cost effective it could be to use the brembo 4-piston calipers from the '00 Cobra R kit with some two-piece, 14" rotors to shed the weight of the additional rotating mass. (Similar to Baer's #2261026 which is only two, 2-piece, 14" rotors and brackets that push the stock caliper out to accept the larger diameter rotor)

I'm going to continue researching, but now I have seen that it can be done for a reasonable amount of money.
larger diameter rotating mass is still bad, even it weighs the same, and you can't forget about the weight of the brackets

Are you plaining on making a AIX/ road course car?
 

hotmustang331

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one word: brake fade
Whats that? :scratch:

:rlaugh: But seriously, I have never experienced it. :shrug: I dont push it THAT hard...thats rediculous. If your pushing your breaks like that, you better be on a road course, otherwise your going to darn fast for too long on public streets.

Also probably why I still have about 50% pad left on the fronts @ 60,000 miles :D
 

Back2Mustangs

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Yeah I know I don't need14" brakes. Road-racers/open track guys will go on all day about how standard Cobra PBR calipers will do just fine with the right pads and fluids for the heat range you're brakes will experience depending on the car, weight, the track, your driving habits, etc... They will all say that there is minor marginal difference in Cobra, Brembo, Wilwood, Stoptech, Movit, Porsche, Baer, Alcon, etc... However, each brake system's marginal improvements cost quite a bit as you move up the scale.

There is sooooooo much that goes into figuring out what brake system is right for a car and the driver and the type of road racing you want to do.

A 14" brake kit will cut down on fade by keeping the rotor a bit cooler, which will keep the brake pistons cooler which will keep the brake fluid cooler...the four-piston caliper will allow for even pad-wear and will not spread like a Cobra PBR caliper. Moving the caliper out another .5 inch does allow for a little more leverage and stopping ability. I don't know how much more stopping ability but science says it has to increase. Its all just little stuff, that ultimately will make NO difference on a street car and is overkill unless you are severely punishing your brakes on a long day of road-racing.

All that being said, if you can have a 14" Brembo 4-piston brake kit for the same price as the 13" kit... why not go ahead and get the 14"? Obviously not everyone has the means to fab their own brake caliper brackets, but for those who do...the sky is the limit.

Now if I can find a nice Watts Link for under $800.00 (and without having to cut into my spare tire well) I'll be in heaven! The MM torque arm and panhard rod look nice, but I'd love to have a Watts.
 

Back2Mustangs

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By the way... the author of the thread I posted told me he would reproduce the brackets for me at a fee. If anyone is interested send him a PM and possibly he will extend the same courtesy.
 

Back2Mustangs

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larger diameter rotating mass is still bad, even it weighs the same, and you can't forget about the weight of the brackets

Are you plaining on making a AIX/ road course car?
Tom, the more I do to this car, the more I start to think about making some open track events a regular part of its duty. I'm still learing a ton about road-race and open track cars. Can you explain to me why the larger diameter rotating mass is bad? Is it something similar to a gyroscope? I mean the only thing I can make sense of is the weight. heaver wheels and heavier rotors, all add to the amount of work the caliper and pads have to do. But if you get rid of the weight, what is left to be a problem?
 

hotmustang331

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guys, its BRAKES not BREAKS. and yes i experienced brake fade on my stock setup fairly easily. i have never had brake fade with my current setup.
Thanks for the spelling correction. :rlaugh:

It was 12AM, I wasnt paying attention. You will notice many spelling errors when im tired...and sometimes when im not :D. Although its not a big deal to me, as its informal.....apparently it bothers some people. :shrug:
 

tomustang

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tomustang

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Tom, the more I do to this car, the more I start to think about making some open track events a regular part of its duty. I'm still learing a ton about road-race and open track cars. Can you explain to me why the larger diameter rotating mass is bad? Is it something similar to a gyroscope? I mean the only thing I can make sense of is the weight. heaver wheels and heavier rotors, all add to the amount of work the caliper and pads have to do. But if you get rid of the weight, what is left to be a problem?
Well maybe I can explain it to you, if you tie a rock to a string and spin it around closer to you notice it's easier, if you keep going out you'll notice it gets heavier with a larger diameter
 

Back2Mustangs

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I'm not really afraid of cutting into the car, but I'd like to keep the spare in the tire well. Grigg's says the spare won't fit after you weld in their replacement piece to allow for their Watts Link.

Your example of the rock on the string seems logical. I never thought about it that way. Hmmm.
 

tomustang

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I'm not really afraid of cutting into the car, but I'd like to keep the spare in the tire well. Grigg's says the spare won't fit after you weld in their replacement piece to allow for their Watts Link.
You can call these guys, they can tell you what's up about their watts http://www.evolutionmsport.com/ great design


Your example of the rock on the string seems logical. I never thought about it that way. Hmmm.
same goes for rims, most people go for 17X9 cobra r's or konig villians 17X9's over 18's



 

Mustang5L5

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Whats that? :scratch:

:rlaugh: But seriously, I have never experienced it. :shrug: I dont push it THAT hard...thats rediculous. If your pushing your breaks like that, you better be on a road course, otherwise your going to darn fast for too long on public streets.

Also probably why I still have about 50% pad left on the fronts @ 60,000 miles :D
Easiest way i know how to expeirence it.


Find a nice empty road late at night where you can open your car up. Get up to 100MPH or so and then lay into the brakes hard. Don't try to lock them up or set the ABS off, just brake hard and build up some heat. When you get down to about 40MPH, press the brakes all the way as if you really need to stop NOW.

Do that in your GT with stock 10.8" brakes and then do it in a GT with the 13" upgrade. You will notice a difference right there.


Of course you are right, who drives like that. I do sometimes though, taking offramps at speed are where i usually get my fade. I will tell you that it's such a great feeling to lay into the brakes hard into a turn, and then near the end lay into them even harder and actually feel the car respond rather than getting that scary mushy feeling
 

Mustang5L5

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Your example of the rock on the string seems logical. I never thought about it that way. Hmmm.


That is a very good examply actually.


It's rotational physics. The farther away from an objects center of rotation the mass is, the more energy it takes to turn the object due to having to travel a larger distance.

Take two wheels, one 16" and one 18". Lets assume they weight EXACTLY the same. The 18" wheel is still harder to spin because it's mass is further away from the center so it has a longer distance to travel to complete one revolution.

Same applies to a brake rotor. The larger the rotor, the more mass is away from it's center and the more energy it takes to spin.

Look at a figure skater. When they spin, they are using a certain amount of energy for rotation. When they have their arms out, they spin slow. However, when they bring their arms in, they speed up even though they have not increased their rotation by pushing themselves faster. All they have done is bring their center of mass closer to the rotational center and their speed increases.
 

Back2Mustangs

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Look at a figure skater. When they spin...
Did you really just bring figure-skating into my thread? :rlaugh: I'm kidding, you make a good point. I knew that larger diameter wheels made a big difference. I could feel how much it slowed my car down to go from 17x8's to 18x9/10. I never imagined brakes would make that much of a difference, but I know those rotors aren't exactly light-weight.
 
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