GTech results

NJstangpilot · Jul 12, 2005

fazm83,

Sorry for being so dim but bear with me.

With an open (regular) differential, BOTH wheels are being powered ... not just one wheel. Provided, of course, that one wheel isn't slipping.

As long as both wheels have the same amount of traction (99% of the time), the reg diff will act exactly the same as a LSD (i.e 50% power to left wheel, 50% power to right wheel). Only if one wheel starts slipping (due to less traction than the other) will the LSD give you better traction/acceleration.

But, if there is *any* wheelspin at all, you've just blown the "best" possible run.

Again, to get the best times possible, you must have NO wheelspin. And, if you do have no wheelspin, a reg diff acts exactly the same as a LSD (50% left, 50% right).

I get the feeling you think that a regular differential only sends power to one wheel.

fazm83 · Jul 12, 2005

I was told that the way the differential works in the 7.5" is that only one wheel is being powered, traction or not. For example, try to do a donut going to the right, doesnt work very well, because its the inside tire that is trying to spin. Do a donut to the left, and the car flips around like no other. ( i have videos of me tryin both)

EDIT: and for some reason in reverse, its the left wheel that spins.

MSP · Jul 12, 2005

NJstangpilot said:
MSP,

The 3750 lb weight figure I gave you already includes your body weight so don’t add to it. 3371 for V6 premium, 150-200 lbs in options/accessories/bolt-ons gives 3521-3571. Use 3550 lbs plus your body weight (whatever that is… ) for the total car weight. I’m still not sure if the 3371 value is wet or dry though. Still, the HP numbers are VERY good for just an exhaust system and air filter, especially, w/o the proper tune.

BTW, I really like your tires & wheels. But, the front looks like it will rub the fender during hard cornering (it sticks out past the fender flare). Possibly the rear also. I don’t think you will be able to lower the car at all with those wheels+offset. What happens during extreme cornering?? Personally, I like my “G’s” in the lateral dimension more than in the longitudinal, so I worry about clearance.

Finally, I don’t understand how/why a LSD will improve on your best 0-60, 1/4mile, etc. times. If/when you get *any* wheelspin at all, you have already blown your best time. The best acceleration times are obtained with NO wheelspin. In a no-wheelspin situation, a regular diferential is acting the same as a LSD. You may accelerate better in slippery situations but your best times shouldn’t improve.

I read up until the point of the tire situation, which you have mis-characterized.. Please form this type of statement as a question rather than fact..

As a question I would say you are wrong.. Or no this is not a true statement..

I will continue reading the rest opf the post..

MSP · Jul 12, 2005

NJstangpilot said:
fazm83,

Sorry for being so dim but bear with me.

With an open (regular) differential, BOTH wheels are being powered ... not just one wheel. Provided, of course, that one wheel isn't slipping.

As long as both wheels have the same amount of traction (99% of the time), the reg diff will act exactly the same as a LSD (i.e 50% power to left wheel, 50% power to right wheel). Only if one wheel starts slipping (due to less traction than the other) will the LSD give you better traction/acceleration.

But, if there is *any* wheelspin at all, you've just blown the "best" possible run.

Again, to get the best times possible, you must have NO wheelspin. And, if you do have no wheelspin, a reg diff acts exactly the same as a LSD (50% left, 50% right).

I get the feeling you think that a regular differential only sends power to one wheel.

What is interesting about this statement is, I have never only spun one wheel.. My burnouts are always 2 wheels.. This debate has confused me at times, but I never paid attention to it.. But for the record, I think NJStangPilot is more closer to the truth, because like I said, all my burnouts are with both wheels..

MSP · Jul 13, 2005

echo7 said:
Keep in mind i beat his, and i'm just an auto. If your not able to get atleast 14.6 or 14.5, then its probably either traction, shifting, launching, or weather issues.... (i do however think my auto can keep up with any good manual drivers, but prolly not experts)

As far as I am concerned Echo7, your run does not exist.. Check this out, I can say I ran 13.4's with my car, and place it under my name like you, and claim it as fact.. There is a reason I have chosen to take a picture of the meter, and post it here.. Its for the sake of Authenticity..

So I dont think you or Fazm83 can actually claim your times, unless you post a screenshot like me..

I believe you Echo7, I just dont believe it!! There is a difference... Our friendship lends me to your side of the arguement in regards to the 14.67 run.. But experience says your full of marbles.. LOL!! Seriously, post me a picture of you running a 14.67 on a flat surface, and not downhill, then I will accept your statement as fact.. Until then, your just blowing smoke my man.. You know we are boys, but this is the only way to keep everyone honest..

This also goes for fazm83, until you post a picture of 14.86, your blowing smoke too man.. LOL!! Put up the pics guys...

MSP · Jul 13, 2005

Think about it guys.. How are we supposed to keep everyone honest, if we just allow guys to come and say they ran this or that.. Without proof of some kind.. No more claiming anything, unless you can back it up with a picture.. That can be seen here..

MSP · Jul 13, 2005

echo7

This is why its important.. If in fact your car can run the 14.67, then there are a few reasons why..

1. GT Take off Mufflers----Creating more back pressure, and thus you have more torque.. Meaning you are beating me in the 1st 60 to 100FT of the 1/4mile run..

2. Bassani X-PIPE could have a better engine tunning than the Magnaflow..

So as you can see, this is why you and I chose to go a different path.. To see which items are actually better performance wise.. Now its understood that my car has a better sounding tone than yours.. But, could it also be, that your car is actually being tuned better than mine..

We know the GT take offs do not allow an overly aggressive sound, as opposed to the Flowmasters, or even running no mufflers.. But, this would also lend itself to the fact, that they are indeed creating more back-pressure, and thus more torque..

Now being that you have an automatic, and I have a manual tranny, this would mean that your setup is far superior than mine because your time indicates that even up against a manual tranny, your car is doing quite well..

I cant come to any of these conclusions, until you post a pic of the run though.. We cant call any of these statements fact, until you post a pic.. But off the top, I would say it is possible that the GT take-offs are creating more torque with our engine.. Also, the Bassani XPIPE could also have a slight hand in this..

This will cause me to do alittle more experimentation in the short term.. If infact you can run that 14.67, then it may be possible for me to exceed that level by adding GT take-off mufflers.. Meaning that with my manual tranny, I should be able to outpace your 1/4 mile time, if we are producing close to the same amount of power..

fazm83 · Jul 13, 2005

Just to show you my pictures of the gtech, so you know mine are valid

fazm83 · Jul 13, 2005

I dont make claims without the ability of backing them up

As far as your ¼ times, ever thought of driver? I've been drag racing since i was 17, and i've become quite good at it.

Echo is going to have a much easier time getting consistent results, as where i still run between 14.8 and 15.3, depending on how i start.

In regards to the burnouts doin both wheels, thats pretty good, considering mine will only do the one, unless i go in reverse, then it will spin the other.

EDIT: and for the record, i hit 14's before both of you

fazm83 · Jul 13, 2005

tsk tsk at you MSP for not even giving me a chance lol

echo7 · Jul 13, 2005

i shall try to get a pic of a run on a flat road, but i have yet to find a flat one (and i live in florida, shouldn't be hard). It's also very hot and humid down here, so if i am able to do it, and pull off a 14.8 or 14.9, i think i'm doing very well.

fazm83 · Jul 13, 2005

Ya, i cant wait to do a run in the winter here, when its only 75 LOL

MSP · Jul 13, 2005

fazm83 said:
Just to show you my pictures of the gtech, so you know mine are valid

Sweet!! Good job Fazm83.. This is the only way we should go about this.. We gotta keep this above board..

Now, we wait for Echo7's shot..

So do you think its Echo7's GT Take-offs providing really good back pressure? I am leaning in this direction..

echo7

The 14.67 is alittle mis-leading if infact it cant be duplicated.. I am thinking if you can only make a 14.8, this would be more inline with reality.. However, if you can re-produce the 14.67, then it is infact accurate to say that either the GT take-offs are doing a dmn good job, or is possible the damn automatic is just faster than the manuals.. LOL!!

But Echo7, it is of the utmost of importantance that the road is indeed flat..

@ALL

Where Fazm83's results are like mine and he is stock is ok.. This means that my mods need to be ratified with an SCT tune..

But Echo7's results have yet to be explained.. That 14.67 is a damn good number!! We need to understand it..

Echo7, you can see how your result being gathered by way of a downhill run, can throw off months and months of research... Please keep it on flat ground.. Although it may feel good to be able to claim the 14.67, it does not help others understand how the performance gain was accomplished.. So we must keep the runs strictly to flat ground..

echo7 · Jul 13, 2005

But if i were greedy and wanted to seem important, i would have never a told you about the hill but the truth is that this is the best road i know, that doesnt have multiple up and downs to it, just a steady down, but to much down, lol. I'm going to guess right now that i will get a 14.9, mainly from the fact that i'm runung 1/2 throttle up until about 15-20mph (dummy traction control for autos) and that manauls don't have this issue. So when i pull off a 14.9 or even a 15.0, dont be like, yes i knew he was a liar! lol The true way we should go about it would be to all go with an SCT2 tune, that way we could see how much these exhausts really do, and wheater GT takeoffs are better, or just straight pipes. This way, i would have just as much trouble launching as a manual, and would get the most our of my launch. The launch is what i know is kililng my time, and i know i could get way better times if changed via SCT2....

bigaloz · Jul 13, 2005

why don't you guys just go to a track, scan the slips and stop arguing about some electronic pos.

NJstangpilot · Jul 13, 2005

MSP,
The 3rd (bottom) picture you posted on 07/07/05 ("Attempted to get duals" thread, page17) *looks* like the front wheel is out further than the fender. I.E., if you held a ruler against the front fender flare and moved it straight down (vertically), it *looks* like it would hit the tire. Maybe, not.

If you were to remove the front springs so that the front suspension compressed fully, the tire wouldn't touch the fender? (this is a question) Typically, a front suspension can travel about 4-5 inches before it bottoms out, which is why wheels are usually inside the fender. The pictures you posted make it *look* like there is about 2-3 inches between the front tire and the wheel flare. Can you move the front L-arms all the way (full spring compression of 4-5 inches) without hitting the fender? (another question).

Fazm83,
read this article about differentials. It will explain a lot of your questions. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm I posted this link before but it got lost. great article.

MSP · Jul 13, 2005

NJstangpilot said:
MSP,
The 3rd (bottom) picture you posted on 07/07/05 ("Attempted to get duals" thread, page17) *looks* like the front wheel is out further than the fender. I.E., if you held a ruler against the front fender flare and moved it straight down (vertically), it *looks* like it would hit the tire. Maybe, not.

If you were to remove the front springs so that the front suspension compressed fully, the tire wouldn't touch the fender? (this is a question) Typically, a front suspension can travel about 4-5 inches before it bottoms out, which is why wheels are usually inside the fender. The pictures you posted make it *look* like there is about 2-3 inches between the front tire and the wheel flare. Can you move the front L-arms all the way (full spring compression of 4-5 inches) without hitting the fender? (another question).

Fazm83,
read this article about differentials. It will explain a lot of your questions. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm I posted this link before but it got lost. great article.

I'll tell you what, after I run and grab this burger.. Be it Burger King or Mickey D's, I'll take an overhead shot of the front and rear fenders.. I have enough room to tuck the tires inside the fender wells.. Although, I like the illusion that the tires are sticking out past the fenders, they can tuck in.. So stand by my man.. Let me grab a well deserved burger and some fries, and I'll snap some pics..

echo7

Our meters are not POS.. What that guy talking about.. LOL! See what you have done Echo7? By making runs downhill, and claiming the number, you have made people think our runs cant be trusted.. LOL!! Downhill 1/4 mile runs, presentd by Echo the Fabulous "7"!!! LOL!!

echo7 · Jul 13, 2005

MSP said:
I'll tell you what, after I run and grab this burger.. Be it Burger King or Mickey D's, I'll take an overhead shot of the front and rear fenders.. I have enough room to tuck the tires inside the fender wells.. Although, I like the illusion that the tires are sticking out past the fenders, they can tuck in.. So stand by my man.. Let me grab a well deserved burger and some fries, and I'll snap some pics..

echo7

Our meters are not POS.. What that guy talking about.. LOL! See what you have done Echo7? By making runs downhill, and claiming the number, you have made people think our runs cant be trusted.. LOL!! Downhill 1/4 mile runs, presentd by Echo the Fabulous "7"!!! LOL!!

haha! i am now officially ruined owell lol

also, i was getting my gtech back from a friend (Crown Vic, 92, 13sec 0-60 lol) and my other friend with a DOHC 3.0 Sable wanted to test his out, so i'll have some time to scout out a flat road... until then, call me the flamer

MSP · Jul 13, 2005

echo7 said:
haha! i am now officially ruined owell lol

also, i was getting my gtech back from a friend (Crown Vic, 92, 13sec 0-60 lol) and my other friend with a DOHC 3.0 Sable wanted to test his out, so i'll have some time to scout out a flat road... until then, call me the flamer

Hey Echo7, the Gtech's are only $30 bucks on Ebay!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ategory=33598&item=7986644595&sspagename=WDVW

So, just buy another one.. Also, Echo7, can never be ruined.. You make the best threads man!

echo7 · Jul 14, 2005

haha, i'll have it back by next week, and by the rains that we have everyday, i'm wondering if i'm going to be able to find time to do the runs....

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