Progress Thread He4.h8Me and Montezuma's Revenge

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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In a street car at 6-800 hp I have seen them last seasons at a time . It’s all in the tune like anything else . Starting with 6 bolt mains put you way head of the game with keeping things in place .

Believe me I know what happens in anything Max effort but these things are pretty damn durable . Price is whatever because I see prices all over . Take a ls7 for instance . Headers , ported stock heads , rpm b4 cam , msd Mamo ported intake . Makes 671 / 577 NA on pump gas . They usually average 620-650 with that stuff . How can you beat that NA from a stock bottom end

Granted this isn’t an ls7 but my point is they are killer engines .

Ls3 heads flow over 300 on the intake side at .600 lift for comparison . My TEA 20511r Cnc heads flow 321 at the same lift . Case in point they are impressive for what they are .

hell if I was doing it again I’d build a 5 or 6 speed setup with a 408 or 416 LS 11:1 on pump gas . It would make over 600 at the tire . Then hit it with 150-200 for the track or some heavy street runs .

My buddy has a stock alum block 416 with mast heads . Cam , carb car . Runs on pump has . 79 slant back heavy cutlass . His dad at 70 years old has been a lazy 9.98 on 125 shot in its setup to take 300 . The car can drive anywhere . It’s just all about what you want to do .
Ok then,...I consider my self bitch slapped.
 
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7991LXnSHO

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Sep 1, 2010
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In a street car at 6-800 hp I have seen them last seasons at a time . It’s all in the tune like anything else . Starting with 6 bolt mains put you way head of the game with keeping things in place .

Believe me I know what happens in anything Max effort but these things are pretty damn durable . Price is whatever because I see prices all over . Take a ls7 for instance . Headers , ported stock heads , rpm b4 cam , msd Mamo ported intake . Makes 671 / 577 NA on pump gas . They usually average 620-650 with that stuff . How can you beat that NA from a stock bottom end

Granted this isn’t an ls7 but my point is they are killer engines .

Ls3 heads flow over 300 on the intake side at .600 lift for comparison . My TEA 20511r Cnc heads flow 321 at the same lift . Case in point they are impressive for what they are .

hell if I was doing it again I’d build a 5 or 6 speed setup with a 408 or 416 LS 11:1 on pump gas . It would make over 600 at the tire . Then hit it with 150-200 for the track or some heavy street runs .

My buddy has a stock alum block 416 with mast heads . Cam , carb car . Runs on pump has . 79 slant back heavy cutlass . His dad at 70 years old has been a lazy 9.98 on 125 shot in its setup to take 300 . The car can drive anywhere . It’s just all about what you want to do .
I hate to see anything but a rocket motor in an Olds. By now if they were still making Olds and Pontiac’s, the engines would all be consolidated for the EPA. So I should look at it like the new Olds engine, especially with that time slip and driveability. But I cannot quote make the leap.
 

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
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I hate to see anything but a rocket motor in an Olds. By now if they were still making Olds and Pontiac’s, the engines would all be consolidated for the EPA. So I should look at it like the new Olds engine, especially with that time slip and driveability. But I cannot quote make the leap.
He played that game to . 2 different engines . Diesel blocks etc. dogs that ate themselves up. His dad is die hard olds and he saw the light as well. This car had a big block for a bit too which lives in his 70 aqua car that’s a pro touring deal they just did a 4l80 in .
 

droopie85gt

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Ok then,...I consider my self bitch slapped.
Aw man, you beat me to it.

Richard Holdener's original Big Bang Hot Rod article opened my eyes. This was at least 10 years ago. The premise was to go get a 5.3 out of the junk yard and run it on the dyno until it blew up. They ran it NA first and it was something like 350hp...no accessories, but still...when they pulled the heads to gap the rings, they found flat tops. 4.8 and 5.3 share blocks, rods, and bore. 4.8 have flat tops to bump up the compression. So a 292 cid engine made 350 pretty much bone stock on the dyno. When they got to 1250hp the stock coils gave up. Couldn't fire a .018 gap any longer and they ran out of time. So a bone stock LR4 4.8 out of a 1999-2004 truck was good for at least 25 dyno pulls over 800hp. I think he still uses the same engine for testing but at some point torched a piston so it has forged pistons. Stock rods, bearings, crank, etc.

I wanted a 4.8 two fold. They aren't as popular, so cheaper. And if I don't back half the car, I don't need a ton of bottom end. My 38k mile 4.8 is pristine and was $550. I am pretty sure I could throw E85 and 10lbs or less and never touch the engine. But same as you getting drag radials and calling the turbo people for Moar turbo, I know I'll want more. Not in a bracket or index race...but just to say I got kicked out for running a 9.x without a cert or comp license. Then if I get that, get kicked out for running a 8.4x...that's probably a stretch, but these things are stupid stout. Great heads, great bottom end. Mine even has the Trailblazer SS intake which is one of the better plastic intakes.

One thing I've learned watching a ton of Holdener's videos is the 4.8 will take as much abuse at the 6.0. It will make 1000 hp on cast iron exhaust and 2.5 exhaust tubing y pipe to the turbo. Of course, that engine may make 1100 with a proper tuned ss turbo header and 3 inch mandrel bent y pipe...but 1000 hp is 1000 hp. Hell 800 hp is 800 hp.

The ironic part is my 83 Regal drag car, as a statement to all the GN's when we would go to Beech Bend for the GS Nationals, had a sticker on the trunk that said there's no replacement for displacement. I was wrong. EFI and a hairdryer replaces a ton of displacement.
 

droopie85gt

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Back to progress updates:

So I finished the metal patching on the passenger A pillar. I need a carbide bit to get into the curves to finish grinding the weld, but it's good enough for now.
Then I started working on making the cowl. I am going to leave it out until I get the 10 (or more) point cage installed so I can tuck the windshield bar up high, maybe above the brake pedal mount. I will do the thru the dash kit...since I have the cowl out access will be easy and even if this turns into a dedicated drag car, I want the cage tucked up out of the way as much as possible. I still need to work on my sheet metal welding and grinding technique, but I am getting better. But I think the welder could have a problem. It doesn't seem to feed right. Like 100 and 250 on the dial feed about the same until you hold the trigger about 4 or 5 seconds then 250 takes off like a sprinter. I checked the spool and it's almost too loose. The feed roller is right and it's tight enough, but not too tight. I'm wondering if the liner has gotten kinked. It's only had 2 of the small spools and about half of this big spool run thru it. I need to go ahead and put in a 220v outlet and try it on 220.

Anyway, I took the piece of the cowl I had already made with the windshield wiper mount and started making pieces to go with that. I used my handy bead roller to put some beads in the new pieces for strength. Yes, the angle between the one on the left and the 2 in the center is off. I set the angle correctly but to match the curve of the dash, I ended up having to cut the piece on the left at an angle.

 
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7991LXnSHO

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He played that game to . 2 different engines . Diesel blocks etc. dogs that ate themselves up. His dad is die hard olds and he saw the light as well. This car had a big block for a bit too which lives in his 70 aqua car that’s a pro touring deal they just did a 4l80 in .
I got to ride in a 72 442 tribute after it got go fast parts on the 455 and a good transmission, but before it got wheelie bars. On a wheels up launch, it left gouges in the blacktop from the rear bumper. No doggy diesel block there.
The LS heads flow better etc., but it’s not the same.
 

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
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I got to ride in a 72 442 tribute after it got go fast parts on the 455 and a good transmission, but before it got wheelie bars. On a wheels up launch, it left gouges in the blacktop from the rear bumper. No doggy diesel block there.
The LS heads flow better etc., but it’s not the same.
Like I said he’s got both . I agree the big blocks make gobs of torque down low but it isn’t the same . The 350 diesel blocks were in his 87 he had that got a 525 crate ls3 . The Aqua 70 has the hot big block that went 10s in the 78 . They also have a red numbers matching 70 convertible with a 350 in it .

The ls doesn’t do to bad torque wise though :nice:
 

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droopie85gt

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OK, getting past the post distractions, back to actual work. My brother was in town this weekend, so I had him come over yesterday and check out the cowl and see how we could incorporate the two factory air hat sections in. The thought here is to tack it all together and weld it up. Then cut it back loose from the car and once the roll cage is in, install it for good. I am calling S&W this week to talk to them about their 10 point thru the dash kit. I want to see where the A pillar bars and the windshield bar go in their kit. I want to keep the bars tuck up to the roof and out against the A pillar as much as possible.

This morning after I helped him do some errands, he wanted to come back and weld some more before heading back to Heber Springs. So the inner cowl is pretty much done. Need to grind and dress the welds, then get some primer and seam sealer on everything. Once the cage is done, the inner and upper cowls will be ready to go back on.

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droopie85gt

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Today I made it easier to get any engine and transmission in and out of the Falcon. I made the core support larger and in support of more powa, opened up the tiny opening for the radiator. I'm thinking of replacing the square tube front crossmember with a round tube and make a slight drop mount for the radiator. I wanted to put a backup plate with nuts under the top flange, but I wanted a big flange over the top to cover the gap you always see when people do this. I put riv-nuts on the bottom. They are there mainly for looks and to pull the flange nice and flat. I plug welded it to the core support and also welded the edge...mainly to keep water and stuff from getting in back there. I will pull it off and weld up the back for the same reason soon. I need to buy some matching hardware to bolt this thing in when the time comes.

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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
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More pictures of the today's work.

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Welcome to the removable top saddle brigade. Removing that top brace is the only way anybody can get an inline six with a 4l80e attached to go into a fox. Obviously the same can said about any engine attached to any transmission when talking about an old assed Falcon.
Good work D.
 

droopie85gt

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Welcome to the removable top saddle brigade. Removing that top brace is the only way anybody can get an inline six with a 4l80e attached to go into a fox. Obviously the same can said about any engine attached to any transmission when talking about an old assed Falcon.
Good work D.
WTF? A compliment. Quick someone call 911, Mikey has had a stroke.

tenor.gif
 

droopie85gt

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Previous someone said I better be a good welder to have this car and I said, I should be by the time I am done. Well, I'm still not a good welder, but I am much better. I tackled the driver side A pillar repair last weekend and today. Last weekend I tried to repair by just welding up the holes and trying to use lead free body solder. FAIL. I may have failed again by not putting the 2nd roll or offset under the windshield, but I need to put the upper cowl on and see how the windshield would fit back in. I figure I can slice it, use the hammer to move it and weld back in a piece if need be. I think it will be ok, but that's what I get for getting excited that my welding was better and forgetting that. The first pic and 2nd
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pic should explain it...that's how I noticed it...when I was uploading pics just now. :bs:

So I cut it all out. Today I patched it in. It's not show car quality. It's probably not even MAACO quality. But it's solid and looks good enough. Also, this week the 10 point S&W cage came in. Since the floor is rotted out, I'll probably get some 2x3 tubing or 1 3/4 .120 wall to make outriggers to mount the hood and down tubes on and patch the floor in later

Anyway to today's work.
 
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droopie85gt

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The guy who bought my 85 stopped by in it a few weekends ago. He's not a computer guy and when I sold it to him, I said it would be just a minute to convert it back to carb. He went ahead and bought the Holley HP EFI setup and said he was going to put that in and learn. Well, when he came by he had put a carb on it. LOL. And new tires...not sure what he did with the drag radials that had less than 1000 miles on them, but the fronts were a dry rotted mess. It still sounds as good as I remember. But you know what, I didn't miss it.

So, not sure if anyone on StangNet cares for my thread becoming FalconNet, but here it is. I've been piddling, but haven't had a lot of time to work on the PBF. Took a week at Memorial Day to go to Gulf Shores and drink rum like water. I have really dry feet and despite lathering them up with some kind of concoction my wife gave me, the 2nd day the soles of my feet didn't like walking across the sand and shells to our chairs and split open. I suffered thru it until Friday...my left sole was split wide open and I was drinking rum at 8am to help kill the pain. I actually stayed in the room all day keeping my feet up and icing them intermittently. It took about 2 weeks for that to get over. She bought some stuff called O'Keefes Healthy Feet. Man, I wish I knew about this stuff 5 years ago. I imagine I'll deal with this on my hands and feet the rest of my life. My dad has the same issue, except his hands are worse. The skin on his fingers will crack open sometimes.

Anyway, the vacation and foot wound took me out a couple of weeks. Then, we are really really busy at work. And having to work some Saturdays. So after working 8-10 hrs a day 6 days a week, I have just been a couch potato on Sundays.

And then there was Father's Day. My stepson and DiL came over with the baby. She was talking about how she must've gotten food poisoning on Friday night and were just starting to feel a bit better. Monday morning when I woke up my wife was in the bathroom spraying out of both ends. Needless to say, a terrible stomach bug was an unwelcome visitor. I missed the first 2 days off work sick in 17 years. I didn't get stuck on the toilet too long, but I ran a fever and felt like I had been hit by a Mack truck towing an M1A1 Abrams. Every joint hurt...even my knuckles. I finally feel somewhat normal after 2 weeks, but still not exactly right.

On Prime Day I looked for any deals on a Plasma/Tig machine. Not necessarily a Prime Day deal, but I bought an Amico CTS-160. DC Tig, Plasma, Stick. It was less than $500. I'm mainly interested in the plasma for now and it seems to work great. Makes short work of the rusted out floor. I need to buy an argon bottle and play with the TIG function. I will probably use that to try and do some more rust repair on the windshield channel.

Saturday and yesterday, I was working to clean out the car to start cutting out the floors and put subframe connectors in. One thing I was worried about was all the rust and having the cowl out makes the car very flimsy. So I started by putting a brace from kick panel to kick panel to tie the rockers so they can't spread out. I then noticed the back of the front frame rails, which was the floor supports in the car were not even. I started playing with the jack and realized that the weight of the front end would flex the firewall and allow the entire front end to move up and down over an inch. After a bunch of web research, I've come to the conclusion that the rockers and frame rails should be parallel, so I bought a digital angle finder and started blocking the car up yesterday. It's got a decent twist to it. The car is level side to side, the rockers and drivers frame rail are within .1 degree, but the passenger rail is 3 degrees up. I put two tires and wheels on the front corner and it's still up a little. I need more weight to get the rail parallel when I weld the subframe connector in. It will also get locked in when the cowl gets welded back in and with the bars that will come off the dash bar and go to the shock towers.

I went and bought a piece of 1x1 tubing and welded across the rockers at the pinch weld to lock the passenger end of the front frame rails down. This will let me get the subfame connectors in after I cut more of the floor out. I think it will be possible to put them in from the top and weld them in pretty solid. I plan on making a roll over jig soon, so I can roll it on its side and finish the underneath welding a lot easier. I'm not sure if I am going to buy floor plans for just sheet steel and fill in the floor after the cage installation. I already have some 2x3x.120 tubing on the way to make outriggers for the cage, since I would trust putting the cage on a replacement floor anyway.

One cool side effect of the rust out floors. They are so rusted, I just took the painter scraper and a hammer and peeled them off the rocker and most of the frame rail. The frame rail must be galvanized because it's perfect and the rocker is in decent shape....but no drilling of 100's of spot welds! Yay me.

Pics for those who don't want to read this useless diatribe:

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droopie85gt

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After working with it more, I am buying some more 2x2x.120 tubing and extending the sfc. I want more in the front subframe and it to go farther back toward the spring mount. Even if I back half the car, I will use the back of the sfc to mount a crossmember to build the back of the car from. I'll get some pics when I extend it.
 
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