Hit the track last night

86turbo · May 27, 2009

you may have pulled one wheel a **** hair but I doubt you would pull anything with an arb installed. Yeah Im sure there have been bumper stands in the 1.5x but they may be a car with less power and a radical rear gear. It doesn't make sense for a big power car to go on the bumper but only cut a 1.5x 60' unless it's so sky high that is uses more energy to lift than go forward.... shoot for pullin the wheels and murdering that 60'. Nice vid!

Drew

stock50LX · May 27, 2009

SMOKEDYA said:
well cause i for 1 kinda jumped the gun with the compression deal. i didn't know the compression was that low till after i built the motor,witch is why i went with 58cc heads,i did however know the pistons were dished.I called lunitti and got there suggestion on the cam and thats what they suggested,as well as a build thread and nobody spoke up for my cam choice.Not till after i posted the dyno results did people start speaking up about my cam size.That is the plan is to go turbo and get a Curtis or another custom ground cam. for now it will be a shot of nitrous. peace

john

Understandable to be confused regarding Ford's changing methods of dropping compression. First with a huge dish in the piston, then with a large-chambered head. You could've bought '69 -'70 pistons which would make 10.5 to 1 with stock pistons. But you probably know that by now. With 58cc heads and 77-93 pistons, you'd probably have 9.6 to 1 compression. Just about right for a street car.

Stangler · May 27, 2009

352Ford2 said:
Agreed

Except I would use a roots or twin screw blower, you will have a tough time getting a decent turbo to spool well with that combo.

John, please ignore this guy...lmao

Nate

SMOKEDYA · May 27, 2009

stock50LX said:
Understandable to be confused regarding Ford's changing methods of dropping compression. First with a huge dish in the piston, then with a large-chambered head. You could've bought '69 -'70 pistons which would make 10.5 to 1 with stock pistons. But you probably know that by now. With 58cc heads and 77-93 pistons, you'd probably have 9.6 to 1 compression. Just about right for a street car.

well i would do bigger pistons but I'm still undecided what I'm doing now at this point. If i go with different pistons to raise the compression then i need to go and lower it if i do a turbo witch is the way I'm leaning.peace

john

SMOKEDYA · May 27, 2009

86turbo said:
you may have pulled one wheel a **** hair but I doubt you would pull anything with an arb installed. Yeah Im sure there have been bumper stands in the 1.5x but they may be a car with less power and a radical rear gear. It doesn't make sense for a big power car to go on the bumper but only cut a 1.5x 60' unless it's so sky high that is uses more energy to lift than go forward.... shoot for pullin the wheels and murdering that 60'. Nice vid!

Drew

are you talking about an anti roll bar on the front or rear? peace

john

SMOKEDYA · May 27, 2009

Stangler said:
John, please ignore this guy...lmao

Nate

no worries

gmsux · May 28, 2009

Hey smokedya, Nice runs I have the 99 cobra and ran 13.46@105.7, we ran one run.

On the power, the quick change for some power is to replace the upper on your intake with a box upper. You'll be surprised how much you can gain. On a 376 I had with 9.3:1cr it gained 40rwhp from this change. I have the dyno sheet somewhere I can show you. The injectors you have are good, I also ran the 42's on the 376 until I went with the nasty 428W and 72lb injectors!

352Ford2 · May 28, 2009

Stangler said:
John, please ignore this guy...lmao

Nate

So you think your Thermo is better than my thermo huh?

I am assuming you don’t know what I do for a living….

Work out of a turbine is based on turbine efficiency, specific heat capacity of the gas, expansion ratio, inlet temperature, and mass flow rate.

Given his setup he has a very low compression ratio and a camshaft that doesn’t allow a very good gas exchange process (I am assuming a few things because the only spec he gave was the lift). So that means (all things being equal of course, I am well aware of how much things can get tweaked with calibration changes) the inlet temp, mass flow, (the Cp should only be mildly affected and can probably be ignored) are going to be low. If you take a look at the equation and you relies when those values are low the affect turbine power output is huge. So until that turbine gets going and the exhaust mass flow rate, inlet temp, etc get up you have a dog on your hands. Couple that with a manual trans (read: not being able to easily build boost on the line). Too bad there aren’t any aftermarket VGT’s available (that I am aware of). That sure would help (at an overall efficiency loss of course)

I am not saying you can’t make it work, it just will be far from optimized.

But lets say he throws a turbo on this car and it runs 10’s, everyone would say “Yay he fixed it!”, but the truth of the matter is this car should have been running 10’s NA…

If your only goal is to pull the wheels off the ground, just mess with the suspension. It should be pretty easy do that if you are willing to make some sacrifices and change a few things like CG, spring rates, damper rates, instant center etc. It might end up handling horrible, but it all depends on what you are willing to sacrifice to gain in other areas.

The root of the matter is that he made a couple mistakes and now he is trying to fix it. There is nothing wrong with that, but there are two ways to go, fix it right or bandiad fix it.

I am really not trying to rag on him, what method he chooses should be based completely on his goals and money. As much as I hate to admit it, sometimes the bandaid approach is the best one depending on what your cost constrains and goals actually are. That just never aligns with me because I am an engineer and I like things optimized whether is a car or something as stupid as the parking arrangement in my driveway.

If it was my car, I would talk to the machinist about the feasibility of getting a different set of pistons to get the compression up in the 10’s and a good camshaft first.

SMOKEDYA · May 28, 2009

gmsux said:
Hey smokedya, Nice runs I have the 99 cobra and ran 13.46@105.7, we ran one run.

On the power, the quick change for some power is to replace the upper on your intake with a box upper. You'll be surprised how much you can gain. On a 376 I had with 9.3:1cr it gained 40rwhp from this change. I have the dyno sheet somewhere I can show you. The injectors you have are good, I also ran the 42's on the 376 until I went with the nasty 428W and 72lb injectors!

Is this the box upper your talking about?
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51511008 - Trick Flow® Box-R-Series Intake Manifolds for Ford 5.0L

86turbo · May 28, 2009

arb for rear

SMOKEDYA · May 28, 2009

gmsux said:
Hey smokedya, Nice runs I have the 99 cobra and ran 13.46@105.7, we ran one run.

On the power, the quick change for some power is to replace the upper on your intake with a box upper. You'll be surprised how much you can gain. On a 376 I had with 9.3:1cr it gained 40rwhp from this change. I have the dyno sheet somewhere I can show you. The injectors you have are good, I also ran the 42's on the 376 until I went with the nasty 428W and 72lb injectors!

if you go to my thread on here where i posted all my videos mine and your run is in there. dont know if you seen it? peace

john

SMOKEDYA · May 28, 2009

86turbo said:
arb for rear

well we'll see? i'm making my own copying it from my buddies wolf racecraft one he has. all i need are the turn buckles.peace

john

Stangler · May 28, 2009

352Ford2 said:
So you think your Thermo is better than my thermo huh?

I am assuming you don’t know what I do for a living….

Dosn't mean you do it well?

Flat out, a turbo on that combo would work better than any roots or other blower,... period!
As for the stickshift holding him back, I agree, but there are alot of ways to build boost on the line. I've seen far too many roots blowers for sale these days to give anyone the advice to go get one....

His combo would move nicely with a 75mm or bigger t6 flange turbo, a nice TH400 or glide, and maybe a cam change if needed (after testing to see how it does)

Nate:SNSign:

86turbo · May 28, 2009

nice. it's kind of a toss-up when you buy arb's bc a lot of them don't allow room for tailpipes...especially 3". the one's that do (team z and others) move the heim ends farther inboard, I feel that it reduces the effect of the arb. Instead of lookin for "turnbuckles" maybe get some female heim ends and thread your own tube? If you are the diy style then that's be a cheap way to go about doin it and you could even weld a nut or flats on the tube so adjustment would be cake.

As far as everyone arguing about power adders, they all have their place and can make similar numbers. I think roots blowers and turbo's out-shine centri's bc of flat torque curves...it's tough to beat. Don't the stick guys spool their turbo's by retarding their timing a ton....or? I recall something about the pressure from the exhaust pulses helping a stick car spool at the line...

Get a 2 step, you won't regret it

gmsux · May 28, 2009

That should do the trick but, you just need the upper P/N TFS-515U1108...

Trick Flow Specialties TFS-515U1108 - Trick Flow® Box-R-Series Intake Manifold Upper Plenums

It's $399 and you should be able to sell you upper pretty easily, retune may be necessary. I used a Hogan upper here's the pics...

Before w/tfs

After w/hogan

TFS dyno

Hogan dyno, same dyno same day...

Getting to the suspension, the above poster is correct that some fine tuning there can help a lot. You should plot the suspension geometry to see where it is first and then make decisions where you want to move the instant center to, pinion angle, and ride height.

Before fine tuning...
View attachment 256205

after fine tuning...
View attachment 256206

I spent a lot of time understanding how a good drag suspension in the foxbody needs to be optimized. I think I had found it

SMOKEDYA said:
Is this the box upper your talking about?
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51511008 - Trick Flow® Box-R-Series Intake Manifolds for Ford 5.0L

SMOKEDYA · May 28, 2009

gmsux said:
Hey smokedya, Nice runs I have the 99 cobra and ran 13.46@105.7, we ran one run.

On the power, the quick change for some power is to replace the upper on your intake with a box upper. You'll be surprised how much you can gain. On a 376 I had with 9.3:1cr it gained 40rwhp from this change. I have the dyno sheet somewhere I can show you. The injectors you have are good, I also ran the 42's on the 376 until I went with the nasty 428W and 72lb injectors!

where did you get that hogan intake from?I want that but in black,and i need to see if it will work for a turbo? I dont want to waste anymore money like i already did. peace

john

86turbo · May 28, 2009

depending on what the car will be used for should determine your intake. Based on gmsux's hp charts it looks like the trick flow would be mo betta on the street. Anything will work with a turbo, man hahah. The reason the hogan makes more hp is because it has shorter runners. You will prob run quicker at the track with the hogan na and with turbo but I doubt it's cheap and you have to draw the line somewhere. Hell, have your heads worked also if you have the cash.....

gmsux · May 28, 2009

Hogan's are expensive, I got a deal on mine at about $600 for the upper. I'd definately go with the TFS box upper for $399, much better $/HP ratio. It should accomplish the same thing being box upper/short runner.

The hogan was much better on the street as well, look at the charts carefully, it gained everywhere. A 351 does not suffer from torque! It needs short runners, look at the difference in RPM for the HP peak!!

Of course, I also ran a custom flat tappet cam to maximise the low CR and there ar other reasons too that I can get into later why the flat tappet is better in the 351W IMO.

I did use a solid roller in my next 428W, but that was a dart block.

Back to suspension, there's room there for improvement, one tenth in the 60ft is two tenth's in the quarter!

Also, I need to add that notice in those photos, I was still running the stock type MAF setup, I later switched to an SDS programmable speed density system and gained another 40rwhp driving the car into the 10.70's with 9.3:1 cr and the flat tappet cam.

Stangler · May 28, 2009

gmsux said:
Getting to the suspension, the above poster is correct that some fine tuning there can help a lot. You should plot the suspension geometry to see where it is first and then make decisions where you want to move the instant center to, pinion angle, and ride height.

Before fine tuning...
View attachment 256191

after fine tuning...
View attachment 256192

I spent a lot of time understanding how a good drag suspension in the foxbody needs to be optimized. I think I had found it

Man that looks like alot of work,... what kind of 60 fts are you cutting with that set-up? Tires?

gmsux · May 28, 2009

It's not that much work IMO, it's the analysis that takes the effort. I was cutting 1.3X w/transbrake 1.4X off idle. 28X10.5 MT's. I no longer have this foxbody btw.

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