Hot Rod /Motor Trend Threads In here

DBMSTNG · Dec 26, 2003

yellow5.0cobra said:
Go look into Ford Mustang PROFIT statstics.

I have some data that is INDIRECT, but still states the obvious.

http://www.hoenowweb.com/Documents/2001Mustang.pdf

maybe you have the wrong link, because there is nothing about profit statistics in that PDF file.

Route666 · Dec 26, 2003

I'd say since a fair amount of people want to hide the pipes that, even if standard aftermarket pipes don't hide, someone will make some that are made to hide.

Ron Jeremy · Dec 26, 2003

I like the "spinner" wheels that are on the 2005 V6 Mustang. The spinner wheels look nicer because they resemble the ones which the original Mustangs had during the mid 60's. I always liked them. I hope that they can have the same spinner wheels as an option for the 2005/2006/2007/2008 GT.

Also, I don't like the stock 2005 GT wheels. I would prefer the Bullit wheels over the ones that they put on the 2005 GT's. I also hope that Ford can offer the Bullit wheels in 2005/2006/2007/2008 for the GT.

Also, I would like to see a blown hood scoop and some blown side scoops on the new 2005 GT. The car would look meaner and more aggressive with these things on it. Maybe Ford will put the hood and side scoops on the Mustang in 2006 or 2007. I don't care if they are fake. They look better on the car.

Mach172 · Dec 26, 2003

351SwitchBlade said:
If you are making payments on a 99-2004, sell it NOW and wait. When the 05' model starts making itself known your values may remain strong on paper, but good luck finding people to choose your car over a new one when you get ready to sell.

Imagine how hard it was to sell a 78 Mustang II after the 79 Fox platform started coming out! Happy Holidays everyone from Detroit!

Even now it's hard to sell!! When I traded my '00GT in, the dealer wholesaled it to another dealer, they had it on the lot for over 2 months!!!

351SwitchBlade · Dec 26, 2003

Yep, it's not talked about much, but used Mustangs are hard to get your money out of right now. My friend's 98 modified Cobra runs like crap and squeeks and rattles over every bump. 4.11's and 18's are vicious (horrible) on city streets.

The 05 is going to be closer to the Lexus 300/Lincoln LS in ride and handling, we will finally be able to get those girls who want smooth as WELL as fast.

Oh to have fall 04' be here tomorrow!

BONE_STOCK · Dec 26, 2003

heh....I'm debating on getting an 05 GT and then trading it in for an 06 Cobra or just holding out for the Cobra....I may do the latter.

yellow5.0cobra · Dec 27, 2003

I know its not the right link, but its says LOUD AND CLEAR...

"The 2001 Mustang marketing strategy is to sell V6 Mustangs in volume, and use the GT to BOTH enhance PROFITABILITY and BRAND IMAGE."

I had quite a few links to data on my old computer, but I have a new machine, therefore no links or any information.

-

I KNOW the differences year to year in the Mustang, but as far as PERFORMANCE figures go, its pretty much the same for each GENERATION. MAYBE the NEXT body style of the Mustang, which MIGHT be in 5 years or POSSIBLY 10years?!?! They will bump figures. Sorry if I was a bit confusing earlier.

BTW, I AM NOT comparing COBRAS, I have owned a few COBRAS and those are NOT just regular GT's obviously, I have NO IDEA how COBRAS even came in the discussion.

LZR RED COBRA · Dec 27, 2003

yellow5.0cobra said:
I know its not the right link, but its says LOUD AND CLEAR...

"The 2001 Mustang marketing strategy is to sell V6 Mustangs in volume, and use the GT to BOTH enhance PROFITABILITY and BRAND IMAGE."

i have to disagree. i think that means that the GT is used to make V6 owners think they are cool. by making GTs cool they get the younger kids and women to buy up all the v6s.

the car is an image, by protruding a positive image with the GT, sales overall increase. The V6 is the bread a butter of the Mustang. otherwise, dont you think ford would just produce more GTs? or get rid of the v6's altogether?

selling cars "in volume" means lots of em, cheap. this brings up the sales/profit margin.

the GT and cobra are used to portray an image that v6 owners who for whatever reason own one theoretically emulate. this causes v6 sales to go up and the profit margin raises.

without the v6 there would be no mustang.

Omegalock · Dec 27, 2003

To add some anecdotal evidence to what LZR RED is saying the topic of cars came up at my family's Christmas dinner(I'm from a family of Ford drivers the yard and street in front of my parent's house looked like a Ford truck dealership). And I made mention to my cousins I'm looking to buy an 06 Mustang in the future. My uncle overheard and asked me what kind was I getting. I told him a GT or if they made one a Mach/Boss. My female cousin didn't know what the hell we were talking about but said she wanted to buy an 03 Mustang because she had seen how cheap they were going for(13k here) and because she said heard they were fast. My uncle proceeded to to explain to her the difference between the models and that the V6 Stang wasn't that "fast" persay but she said in reply. "As long as everybody else think it's fast that's fine with me." And I think that's what a lot of V6 buyers think. They want a sporty car that's perceived as fast(I mean it's a Mustang even none car people konw at least one person in their life time that had a bonafide fast Mustang)that's cheap and can keep up that image with it's looks and reputation.

351CJ · Dec 27, 2003

All of you guys are right about Mustang marketing in a way. Here is the way things work.

The V6 Mustang is a very low profit vehicle. I'd guess that Ford only makes about $500 on each a V6 Mustang it sells.

I'll also bet that a V8 GT does not cost even $1,500 more to manufacture than a V6 Mustang does. This means that Ford makes over $4,000 on a GT sale.

So why would't Ford just quit selling V6 Mustangs since they make almost no profit on them? It is because the V6 gives them the economy of scale. With the volume of V6 sales it allows them to make a good profit on a GT. This is why Ford has been heavy into rental sales which are zero profit, if not a loss.

Omegalock hit on the next aspect of marketing cars. That is the image and cool factor that halo cars like the SVT Cobra create. Every Mustang customer is getting a piece of the SVT Cobra (or other fast Mustangs like the Mach 1). There are lots of fast Mustangs out there and a lot of people know it, so it creates an image. This way even a V6 owner (like Omegalock's cousin) get a piece of that bad and fast image. This is the same reason why the auto manufacturers go racing as is creates an image that rubs off on everything they sell.

yellow5.0cobra · Dec 27, 2003

I also agree with OMEGALOCK to a certain extent, because some people I spoke with from the past ~6years havent had a clue that a Mustang comes in V8, and didnt even know what a COBRA was.

$1500 can be a good estimate on how much a GT cost to make compared to a V6. The same engine is in the CROWN VIC's, which are MASSLY produced, Lincoln Town cars, and other high volume vehicles... which also use the same 8.8 rear end I may add.

LET JUST SAY HYPOTHETICALLY:
150,000 Mustangs were produced in 2002, 65%(95,000units) were V6's, at a profit of LETS EVEN SAY $800 per car, just about $76,million dollars were made in PROFIT.

The rest(45%) were V8 Mustangs, at a profit of LETS EVEN SAY $3500 per car, they made $192,million dollars in PROFIT.

Please tell me something different.

I love to hear your without V6, there is NO Mustang theorys. Possibly the Mustang might be a little more expensive, but certainly there WILL be a Mustang.

awalbert88 · Dec 27, 2003

Without the V6, there would be no Mustang. If you believe otherwise, you are gravely mistaken. Most people who buy the V6 buy it because of money. They either can't afford the GT or can't afford the insurance.

Without the high sales of the V6, the production of Mustangs would be much lower and profit margins would drop even further. Now, if the GT and Cobra could sell 120,000+ units a year by themselves, that would sure be great for Ford, but that won't happen unless the prices come down to much lower levels. And if that happens, kiss profit goodbye.

Simple economics explain all this. You can't just remove the V6 from the equation and get accurate profit numbers, because there is much more to it than that.

The reason the Mustang sells so much better than the F-body ever did is because it is a more generally appealing vehicle. Lots of average people will look at the Mustang and want to own one. The car is as much about image as about performance, and that's why the V6 sells. Without the V6 Mustang to subsidize R&D costs, we wouldn't be seeing a whole new platform.

yellow5.0cobra · Dec 27, 2003

Never said REMOVE the V6.

Boomer v3.8 · Dec 27, 2003

Sell more for less, or less for more.
Ford gets dollars either way...

Sell 10 for 1 dollar, or 1 for 10 dollars = 10 dollars

SadbutTrue · Dec 27, 2003

Yellowcobra... you aren't getting it are you... The V6 is sold for volume. This means profit. That is the only reason the V6 exists. And until you bring a source that speaks to the contrary, common sense would indicate that Ford makes a lot more money on a V6 than a GT. Much less sophisticated drivetrain + less money into suspension = a lot of money saved over a GT. More than the 5 grand or so difference in price, as a matter of fact. Think about it... if Ford wasn't making more money on the V6, why would it even exist? An all GT and up lineup might make Ford's lineup more attractive and would suit enthusiasts more, while making the Mustang seem like more of an animal (part of the attraction).

The GT hasn't had huge performance increases because they haven't been necessary.

And no, a 6 speed will not help in a quarter mile if you are talking about the all-powerful T56 (The fbody, vette, viper, cobra tranny). This tranny has the same drive gears as the Tremac TKO (a 5 speed) and very similar to any 5 speed, with just two overdrive gears. Gears that you wouldn't use in an acceleration contest, unless you have a serious problem with your setup. I don't see a big deal, but hey... up to you.

Wipeout · Dec 27, 2003

Hot Rod magazine 2005 pics

Bad boy Brad has both MT and Hot Rod magazine articles with pics on his website TheMustangSource.com

2005Eleanor · Dec 27, 2003

That link sort of defeated your argument, yellow5.0cobra. If you look at the retail distribution, add up the percentages in the retail mix (basically, the percentage of each car ford plans to make available at each level). 66% of the retail mix is in V6's. They say the plan is to sell V6's in volume...why is that...? TO MAKE MONEY...more volume sold = more money made. The GT's increase profitability by giving a better brand image. This means the GT's make the Mustang look good to potential buyers. Those buyers go to the Ford dealership, but might not want to spend the money for a GT, or may just want a mustang because it "looks fast", so they buy a V6. This increases Ford's profit margin, and the volume of V6's sold.

Want further proof...? Ride around and count the numbers of each type of Mustang you see in one day....compare. I bet at least 10 to 1 on V6's to GT's.

posm6s · Dec 27, 2003

DUDE, welcome to last week.

351CJ · Dec 27, 2003

2005Eleanor said:
Want further proof...? Ride around and count the numbers of each type of Mustang you see in one day....compare. I bet at least 10 to 1 on V6's to GT's.

The facts are a bit different. For model year 2003 Ford built 150,601 Mustangs of which 86,644 of them were V6's and 64,158 of them were V8's, including GT's, Mach 1's and SVT Cobras. That is the ratio of V6 to V8's is 1.35 to 1.

The problem with just looking at what is on the street is that most people buy a V6 as a daily driver, but it seems a lot of people buy their GT's, Mach 1's and Cobras to keep parked in their garages.

SVTdriver · Dec 27, 2003

351CJ said:
The facts are a bit different. For model year 2003 Ford built 150,601 Mustangs of which 86,644 of them were V6's and 64,158 of them were V8's, including GT's, Mach 1's and SVT Cobras. That is the ratio of V6 to V8's is 1.35 to 1.

The problem with just looking at what is on the street is that most people buy a V6 as a daily driver, but it seems a lot of people buy their GT's, Mach 1's and Cobras to keep parked in their garages.

I guess my area is different. GT's are definately daily drivers. The mach and cobra are also driven daily but some keep the in the garage. Not many people buy 2 mustangs. One for daily one for weekends.

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