hello i finally got the motor out yesterday to do some freshening up and i found out that i had very bad bearing problems. the rear main had deep gouges and pitting and no silver color on it anymore. the rod bearings had some pitting and a little copper showing. the crank on the other hand looked like it has not been used. when i built this motor, i had 2 others laying around and i keep having this feeling that i may have gotten the main caps mixed up or something. i am not sure if there is a way to tell if they are 1990 year mains that match my block. who knows. i also put a HV oil pump if the main caps are correct, what caused my crappy bearings.
my mains and rod bearing are severely shot after only about 700 miles of use.
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i did not check for clearance like i should have but i had the crank turned for 10/10 i think. anyway, there is no grooves in the crank. i am surprised, you can run your fingernail and not catch a ridge at all, i am going to mic it to make sure. i can try to get you some pics later today. thanks.
The pics will help me a lot..
Here's a old link I found on the web, I've always saved it you may find it interesting.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/bearingwear/bearingwearanalysis.htm
Here's a old link I found on the web, I've always saved it you may find it interesting.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/bearingwear/bearingwearanalysis.htm
The pics will help me a lot..
Here's a old link I found on the web, I've always saved it you may find it interesting.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/bearingwear/bearingwearanalysis.htm
What did the oil look like? Did you cut open the filter to inspect it to see if you found any bearing material?
Here's a old link I found on the web, I've always saved it you may find it interesting.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/bearingwear/bearingwearanalysis.htm
What did the oil look like? Did you cut open the filter to inspect it to see if you found any bearing material?
Ray III
New Member
Strip all the bearing shells but remember where they came from, bolt the mains back on to about 50 ft-lb and measure the up-down diameter of all of them with a caliper.
Also check all the crank journals to be sure they were turned down to the correct diameter.
Check the numbers on all the bearing shells to ensure they are the same size.
If after a through examination both by you and a shop you can find no problems, it was either a flywheel imbalance or trash in the oil passage.
Also check all the crank journals to be sure they were turned down to the correct diameter.
Check the numbers on all the bearing shells to ensure they are the same size.
If after a through examination both by you and a shop you can find no problems, it was either a flywheel imbalance or trash in the oil passage.
sorry for the blurriness, my old cam was good, so good that somebody jacked it from me, and this new one sucks, it is going back to wally world. i did actually pry some piec of foriegn metal from the main bearing but it did not scar the crank at all, i am going to open up the oil filter soon. hope these help
Do the marks in the bearing correspond with the oil hole in the crank....
Looks like debris to me..
Torquing the caps back donw and measuring everything is the way to tell what size it all is, but you need to use a dial bore mic and take measurements from 3 points. You should mic the journals on the crank as well, then subtract and you'll find your clearance.
What series are those bearings, Clevite 77 P series?
Did you atleast plasti gauge it when you assembled it? Was the engine cleaned along with all the parts?
Looks like debris to me..
Torquing the caps back donw and measuring everything is the way to tell what size it all is, but you need to use a dial bore mic and take measurements from 3 points. You should mic the journals on the crank as well, then subtract and you'll find your clearance.
What series are those bearings, Clevite 77 P series?
Did you atleast plasti gauge it when you assembled it? Was the engine cleaned along with all the parts?
where would i find out what series they are, this is what i found, C is on top of the clevite 77 name is there a C series. yes some deep grooves are at the oil hole
i have no idea where this stuff came from, could it be a possibility that the machine shop did not clean the oil passages in the crank and block when i got it machined. that is what i am thinking, how would i find out if i need to get my main caps allign bored or not.
i have no idea where this stuff came from, could it be a possibility that the machine shop did not clean the oil passages in the crank and block when i got it machined. that is what i am thinking, how would i find out if i need to get my main caps allign bored or not.
the motor was super clean when i put it together fresh from the machine shop, i did not plastigauge it either, i figured that if everything is fresh from the machine shop that, it's all good. this is really no biggy, i can probably get the machining done at my school for next to nothing.
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
I think I'd load up the caps, bearings, crank, block and rods, and take a trip to a reputable machine shop. Let them do some measuring for you. Something's amiss here.
What symptoms caused you to pull it back out - noise? Oil pressure issues? Temp issues? Did you cut open the filter to see what you found there?
What symptoms caused you to pull it back out - noise? Oil pressure issues? Temp issues? Did you cut open the filter to see what you found there?
Appears dirt came out of the oil hole and entered the bearing then.
Cleanliness of the parts is a huge thing, every machine shop is different, but I run brushes though everything then use hot soapy water for a final wash down, blow it dry then paint and assemble.
To check the diameter of the caps follow my method above, or since it sounds like you are fairly new to engine building let a good shop measure it all for you.
What PT# or stamping is on the back side of the bearing.
Cleanliness of the parts is a huge thing, every machine shop is different, but I run brushes though everything then use hot soapy water for a final wash down, blow it dry then paint and assemble.
To check the diameter of the caps follow my method above, or since it sounds like you are fairly new to engine building let a good shop measure it all for you.
What PT# or stamping is on the back side of the bearing.
i found metal inbedded in the one main bearing. i have not opened the filter yet but tomorrow will reveal all, i hope. the # is mb21219, the oil pressure would be good until it warmed up which then it would drop down to about 8 psi sometimes.i started this about the beginning of summer
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
With the pressure doing what it was, it sounds like there were clearance problems too. I guess the good news is that you'll never assemble another one without checking clearances first.
when i first built the motor, it had about 75 psi when idleing and 80 when revved when cold and 55-65 when warm, it wasn't until summer came when the psi dropped. anyway, i pulled all the pistons and bearings out last night. the rod bearings that were on the cap side, were better than the ones on the rod side. some of them were not showing any copper. the mains were better on the upper side with the oil slot, than the lower bearing was. still the crank was not scared and you cannot catch a nail. when i get a puller i am going to get the balancer off and take the crank to my school to have it checked and machined if needed. how would the clearances be bad with a fresh crank, would would have to be done to fix it. i noticed that the rods had crosshatches at the cap bore. does this mean anything special had been done. also i noticed that these aftermarket pistons have a groove for clips to keep the rod from moving back and forth. the stock piston do have that and the machine shop did not give me those clips to install on the pistons, could that be a problem too. i also put 2 rods from another engine in this one. what harm could that do. i have 2 #8's and 2 #6. did i already ask how i could find out if i got the main caps mixed up with another motor's main caps or not. they may need to be allign bored.
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
Like I said before, I think I'd haul the bits off to a good machine shop and let them do some measuring. Since you didn't measure before assembly, you're relying on the previous machine shop's work, as well as any issues you have inadvertantly caused by then mixing/matching rods, caps, etc. See what you conclude after examining the filter and having some careful measurements taken.
I agree with Micheal..
If the pistons and pins were made to be used with the sprial locks and you did not put them in that is a big issue, nothing kept the pin from sliding back and forth. If that is the case you should be able to pull or push the pin out of the ron with your finger, if not they are pressed in like a stock motor.
You need to check all clearances even on fresh machined parts. I have no clue how to tell an older main cap from a late model as far as appearance, you could mock them up or have them mocked and and measured to check the align hone.
If the pistons and pins were made to be used with the sprial locks and you did not put them in that is a big issue, nothing kept the pin from sliding back and forth. If that is the case you should be able to pull or push the pin out of the ron with your finger, if not they are pressed in like a stock motor.
You need to check all clearances even on fresh machined parts. I have no clue how to tell an older main cap from a late model as far as appearance, you could mock them up or have them mocked and and measured to check the align hone.
well the wrist pins are pressing in the rod but they can still slide around but the won't come out since the rod is on tight. but the pistons have grooves for locks which the machine shop did not include with the pistons. i am at school now and i am going to cut the filter open today as soon as they open the shop up. how much would it cost to get the mains alligned properly, could i do the same with the 2 mixed rods so that i can use them. what would i have to do if i got aftermarket rods, they wouldn't fit right in without machining them, would they. all of the piston rods have their matching caps just to let you know. thanks, i may be given a new .060 block with the matching main caps, so that i could just swap my internals, with careful measureing so that i don't have to get these caps alligned, unless i can just get the allignment for free at the school and use the same block since it is a roller ready block if i ever wanted to switch. the other block is not a roller ready block. but will be thrown out if nobody wants it. i am also starting to build another motor for my truck, just a stock rebuild. i got the rings and everything. i am going to get the crank miced today to know if it needs to be turned, and then i will hottank it all. can the crank be hottanked or is that a bad idea.
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
FYI -- "Mic'd" - means to use a micrometer to measure
"Miced" - means to be set upon by small, furry, long-tailed, 4-legged rodents
"Miced" - means to be set upon by small, furry, long-tailed, 4-legged rodents
