New '93 Fox -On3 Turbo Build Project- PICS

Franomania

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Apr 8, 2020
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Toronto, ON
More importantly....
Look what showed up yesterday.

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I installed the fuel pump a couple days ago working great and amazingly quiet and the car is under disassembly stage now :nice:

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Will be starting on installation this weekend
 
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Rdub6

So while I wait to figure out my rear end issues
Dec 29, 2017
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This is a screenshot from my phone of my thread.
Click on the three dots and click edit thread, and you should be able to change title.
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Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
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I cant see the 3 dots/edit button. This title is misleading for what is going on now. Any more help?

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Your account is not mature enough to have these abilities yet. You will need to get one of the moderators to change it for you. Just let them know what you want it changed to.
 
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Franomania

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Quick update here
.
Did the dry mockup less the intake manifold pipe as i am waiting on the injectors still for install. It all fit up i would say 85%. As many have said, there is some massaging that needed to be done to make it work, but overall not terrible.
  • Turbo flange sits extremely close 1/4" or so to the frame rail so i had to shim the pass side motor mount to give it some more space when its under load.
  • The 180 deg pipe going into the intercooler just would not align straight to the turbo output pipe or intercoolor so its a bit cockeyed. Didn't matter where i positioned the intercooler or clocked the turbo, it just would not go straight together. I am hoping the coupler will be sufficient to hold it together regardless.
  • The power steering cooler line needed some finesse to get the intercooler to fit tight enough to the AC condenser.
  • downpipe was a major PITA. AC accumulator bracket has to be removed completely and the pipe still presses up against the accumulator. Crossing my fingers the v-bands hold up.
  • hot side crossover pipe hangs a bit lower than i expected, about in line with the K-member and the joint after the flex isn't straight either. Ball and socket joint eliminates any concern, but thought this should be bang on if anything.
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Another fun point, one of my water pump bolts snapped clean in half when trying to remove it for the alternator relocation bracket. I don't have high hopes that a bolt extractor will work well. Not sure what i am going to do here, two bolts on that bracket may not be enough.

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Will be starting final install over the weekend
 
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Franomania

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Finished up the final assembly of hot side and started the cold side install again. I'm kinda just taking my time since i have to wait for a few more things to come in over the next week or two.

I have read so many different threads and so much conflicting info on this. Looking to hear back from forced induction guys only.
For PCV system, is one valve cover breather in itself sufficient or does the PCV have to be vented with a breather/manifold line capped as well?
Can i use a breather off the throttle body hose pipe instead of buying a screw on one to replace the oil cap? I don't think the smaller diameter should restrict it enough...thoughts?
 

Franomania

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Apr 8, 2020
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Toronto, ON
Just an update for anyone.
Car has been sitting for about two weeks WAITING. I had sent in my PiMPx for the sequential upgrade so i avoid having to hack up the harness to run batch fire + small bonus of driveability/economy but it is taking FOREVER to get returned shipped to me. Taken about one month total so far since i sent it out and it has been moving through "USPS network facility to facility" for two weeks on the return trip and its keeping me from running this car....just me venting here..

Overall though, even though it has not been started i'm surprised how easy it was to install this kit. probably about 20-25 hours or so with several dry mockups and beer time and my skill level i would say is about average for a hobbyist.

Final notes on install (assuming it fires up correctly haha)
  • For PCV i ended up getting a screw on oil cap breather along with a small filter for the PCV. Based on what im reading that is the best way to vent on a boosted application without going to a catch can type setup.
  • I fabbed up some smaller brackets for the bottom of the AC condenser as well which allowed me to push it closer to the rad for enough room to keep my fog lamps/brackets intact with zero cutting to the bumper whatsoever. Big bonus for me as i heard many people needed to cut/chop/remove some stuff in the lower bumper area to get all the piping to work.
  • AC accumulator bracket had to come off to give the downpipe enough clearance to pass through.
  • Hole on passenger side of engine bay had to be enlarged slightly for correct orientation of the cold side
Will likely have some more significant questions and help needed with regards to startup/tuning by the weekend if it ever comes

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Mstng93SSP

You have a nice rear end there Dave.
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Your engine bay looks great! When I did my turbo I never mocked anything up...just straight install. Seemed Easier. People can say what they want but I think the On3 kit fits really well.
 

Franomania

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So...
I have been waiting for about 3.5 weeks for my Pimpxs to be shipped back to me but it seems USPS has either lost it, or the tracking info has been lost i dont know. I have had no update since May 19th...Very upset about it. To mitigate never receiving it from USPS, i ended up finding a MSPNP2 on kijiji i picked up yesterday. Worst case i can re-sell either the PNP or the Pimpxs if it ever comes.

FINALLY heard this motor run again for the first time in several months. Unfortunately it was only for about 10-12 seconds.

I have calibrated TPS, AFR table, confirmed fixed timing matches physical, updated ReqFuel for my FRPP 47lb injectors. It stalls out after around the same runtime, every time. MS is new to me but i have done research in the months i have been waiting for, but cant for the life of me figure out why it stalls out after not surging or anything else.

While it is running RPMs are pretty stable, but then just drops off. I think it is a crank to run issue but still learning here. Any help would be appreciated. I attached a log of one of the startups (pretty well the same every time) with the current tune.

Thanks!
 

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Mstng93SSP

You have a nice rear end there Dave.
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Looking at your log it seems to me you are running super rich with an AFR at between 7.7 and 8.6 Adjust your fuel table at idle and take out some fuel.
 

Franomania

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Agreed i did see that as well, but not sure if the reading is to be trusted if my gauge is still showing heater and not a reading? The AFR stays flat through the whole log.
I was going to pull some fuel but figured i might have some setting off first as it strange to me that it would die suddenly even if it is a bit rich after running very stable.
I cant work around it because of the aftermarket door lock/unlock keyfob module. If i KO and let the O2 warm up, i have to cycle key off and back on to start it up which resets the heater cycle.
 

Franomania

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so i played with some stuff tonight, looks like the PWM should have been inverted because it actually stays running now. i have attached a log of two runs.
1. open loop 2. closed loop.
for open loop, rpm surges for about one min before settling around 1k .Once the wideband kicks on, it runs very lean up to ~16-17 and oscillates gradually settling down to about 14.
For closed loop, i didnt change any default settings, but immediately runs a touch better. RPM still hunts but the oscillation range is much less.

One variable that stick out to me is the PWM Idle duty. Looks like once the idle duty gets to 40% in open loop it settles down, and when in closed loop around 60s into the run, it immediately jumps to 40% and everything stabilizes as shown below.

One other question, to get my AFR's down to reasonable levels i had to bump my idle cells to high 60's/low 70s. It seems high compared to other tunes i have seen, makes me think something else is going on?

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Thanks
 

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a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
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Dead time values for the injectors.
What you are seeing is the car entering closed loop idle. Look at the pwm and spark advance, notice how they both change together.
Without looking at the datalog I can't tell for sure, I would have to check the status bits to see if you are in closed loop at that point.
 
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Franomania

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OK so i have ensured my deadtimes are now accurate based on the MS calculator and the inputs for the FRPP 47lber's. The car will idle but in open loop.
What i have done is left it in open loop and turned off all spark advance/retard settings. The thought process being that i wont have any other interference once the car is warmed up.
With that said, the car does idle very well now, a bit rich but it didnt like when i pulled the fuel.

The bigger problem now, anytime i blip the throttle even 15% the car will just run down and die. I have attached a log and tune of what is currently loaded. Ignore between 24-47s i had to ease the clutch ever slightly to get it back into the garage without dying. Is there a way to trim logs?

Desperate for some help to get me going at least. After a few days i was hoping i'd be in a better place but i guess the learning curve is steeper than i thought.
 

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a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
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Ok we are going to play the try this game for a minute. I went in and rescaled everything for you, you will see the changes made if you compare the tune files.

I do things a bit differently with MS2 tunes, you will notice 2 IGN tables [table1 is just for idle when the throttle is below 1.5%] && [table 3 this is for everything above 1.5% throttle consider this the main timing table] ... i only do this because MS2 firmware does not have a dedicated idle timing table like the MS3 does so its easy to go in and create one, notice how the timing below your idle speed is higher this will help catch a falling idle.
I also setup closed loop idle for you using known good values, I altered the HZ for the idle valve this should make the lowest duty step for the valve around 40% [ below this value at 313hz the idle valve becomes non linear] I have the valve settings ect input for you already you may need to go in and adjust the idle gain slider [values between 500 and 1200 are considerd normal]

datalog again [from koeo so I can see the baro reading from the map sensor] so I can observe the entire startup and idle procedure and give further instruction.

good luck
 

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