oversize valves worth it?

mr_woodster · Nov 27, 2003

oversize valves worth it? (140,sting,svo1?)

I was peeping around ebay and came accross these...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33621&item=2445222279

aparently the guys sells larger valves and what not, is this a set worth looking into..or should i sell my first child into slavery and see what i can afford at esslinger?

Lx89Stang05 · Nov 27, 2003

thats a big help since these heads on the tubos dont flow good, a good port job with nice valves will work good.

__________________
89' Mustang Lx 2.3T 5spd,Smoke Metallic
Engine Mods:
2.3 Turbo Merkur Motor, Garrett T3 Turbo Set@10-25psi, .60 Trim Compressor .63 A/R Turbine, Fully Ported And Polished Head, 35 lb/hr Injectors, Gutted Upper Intake, Ported and Knifed Lower Intake, K&N Filter, Cold Air Intake, Stock Forged Pistons, Adjustable Boost Valve, LA3 ECM, Big VAM, A/C Delete, Removed Air Box and Silencer,Bailey Evo BOV.
Exhuast Mods:
2.5" Dual 2 Chamber Flowmasters 40's, Ported E6 Exhaust Manifold, SVO Y-Pipe, 2.5" Down Pipe No Cats, 2.5 SS Tail Pipes
Suspension/Body/Interior Mods:
94' Cobra springs, Rear GT Sway Bar, 88' Ranger Air Dam, 15" Hand Polished American Racing Rims, GT Spoiler, GT Escort seats, Boost Guage
In The Works:
Supercoupe Intercooler,5spd Trans., 8.8' Rear End, 3.90 grears
Future Mods:
Rods Header, 17" Cobra R Rims, pro5.0 Short Throw Sifter. SVO Brakes, Brake Ducts, Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump, Kirban Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator, Cam, Adjustable Cam Pulley.

muh'stang · Nov 27, 2003

the idea came to me the idea day while on a ricer board, I said to them: "reduce the base circle of the came lobe significantly and replace youre valves with oversized ones that are the right length longer then the stock ones so they roll on the modified cam properly"
In theory, it sounds like it would work.

mr_woodster · Nov 27, 2003

anyone know what the stock valve sizes are? Also the flow numbers of a head/valve stock , verse ported with bigger valves? one more thing, if i want to use an aftermarket grind for my cam, would i need to use the old solid followers, or can i get a roller cam for a 2.3 custom grinded?

bhuff30 · Nov 27, 2003

oversized valves are great, but not unless you have the matching work. You need to unshroud the valves, or you only shroud them more by installing larger valves. in short, unless your head is ported and unshrouded, it won't be worth the effort or cost.

Lx89Stang05 · Nov 27, 2003

turbo heads have
Intake valves 1.73
Exhaust valves 1.49

mr_woodster · Nov 27, 2003

thanks guys for the info, thats great stuff! Should i get the machined (valve seats done, etc) before i further* unshroud, so so i knew what im looking at as far as the max radius of the port? Also , looking at this kit, comes with dual springs and stuff, would u guys (anyone who has delt with this issue) recommend this setup? i have heard of better spring rate springs, but not a dual setup like featured. the benifits seem obvious, better reliablitly at high rpm, using duo-springs to prevent valve float. I could be way off, but it seems like a good idea, what are your thoughts?

GTPhreak · Nov 27, 2003

Here are some pics of a ported big valve head.
http://gtphreak.virtualave.net/pics/head/head.php

mr_woodster · Nov 27, 2003

GTPhreak said:
Here are some pics of a ported big valve head.
http://gtphreak.virtualave.net/pics/head/head.php

its that your site/head gtphreak? if so , what is your take on the bigger valves as far as performance.

GTPhreak · Nov 27, 2003

yeah its my site, but that is ispy malik's head. he posts on here sometimes, but the motor isn't built/installed yet

mr_woodster · Nov 28, 2003

mr_woodster said:
thanks guys for the info, thats great stuff! Should i get the machined (valve seats done, etc) before i further* unshroud, so so i knew what im looking at as far as the max radius of the port? Also , looking at this kit, comes with dual springs and stuff, would u guys (anyone who has delt with this issue) recommend this setup? i have heard of better spring rate springs, but not a dual setup like featured. the benifits seem obvious, better reliablitly at high rpm, using duo-springs to prevent valve float. I could be way off, but it seems like a good idea, what are your thoughts?

anyone? stinger .... 140 , svo1? has anyone done this here besides me ( me wanting too that is)...just looking for some knowledge able feed back ( i have reicieved plenty about matching un shrouding and such thanks guys!) ...so the more the merrier

140cilx · Dec 1, 2003

you want input from someone stupid?

Sure.

I only have one buddy w/ the oversized valves whose head I've worked on. I'd go that route if you did all that bhuff said. This head I mentioned is awesome, should be installed anytime now and he'll hopefull dyno so we can see improvements. Many argue that it's not really worth it since the stock valves handle all the limited head is capable of anyway.

I'd do my porting first though, so that if you accidentally touch the valve seat, they will address that anyway when they do the valve job and remove your flaw. If I was doing it after they did the valve job I'd be a little more nervous. And actually, I've done it both way's.

When they do the 3 angle or 5 angle for the big valve install, rest assured it will blend in nicely w/ the work you'd do unshrouding the valve and opening up the short side and you shouldn't have to go in again and clean anything up.

The valve springs doubled like you mentioned is nice, but only if you are gonna go beyond the stock computer rev limit w/ something tunable. Stock springs are fine and won't float well beyond the 6.25k redline. For minimal parasitic drag, if you are staying with the stock computer, I'd just continue to use the stock springs. AND for me, I don't like solid lifters, I don't like adjusting tappet's and I don't like shimming. I like the oil pressure keeping everything in spec so I don't have to plan on checking them every 10k miles. That's just me.

mr_woodster · Dec 1, 2003

140cilx said:
springs. AND for me, I don't like solid lifters, I don't like adjusting tappet's and I don't like shimming. I like the oil pressure keeping everything in spec so I don't have to plan on checking them every 10k miles. That's just me.

so would i hafta use solid lifters in order to do this setup? I've aske about the durablity of stock springs about the rev limiter, i wasnt sure how safe it was. My plans are to raise the limiter to about 7k , i dont think ill be pulling to a 7k redline, but i want to use it as a buffer zone when/if i use a nitrous setup. Unless im mistaken (very well could be ;o) ) when u hit the revlimiter it starts to cut fuel pressure...and running lean and melting pistions with nitrous isnt my idea of fun ;O) anyone who wants to clarrify some of these details , do so !
thanks again

140cilx · Dec 1, 2003

the answer I got to your question is every set of stock springs might be a bit different than their brethren. I never had people telling me that they experienced valve float beginning at 7,500 rpm or anything specific.

I know a local guy that raced his carb'd n/a 2.3 flattrack and ran it at 10,000 rpm on stock springs every race the entire race for a season and a half before breaking his crank.

On my nitrous I'm just using a little plug in pill from msd that shut's off the nitrous at 6k. It'll operate in a window like 2500 to 6000. pretty common, $50.

Stinger · Dec 1, 2003

You do realize you will probably have 500-600 bucks minimum in the head if you want to do this right? IMO the money is better spent elsewhere. I can think of much easier ways to gain power. IMO this mod is best left to the guys looking to sqeeze the last 20hp out of their nearly maxed out setup.

Of course, that is only my opinion...you can do whatever you want...it's your money

You don't have to use solid lifters, you don't have to use double springs (although I don't see why not if you have them). You don't have to do anything special except have the head machined properly for the bigger valve seats and have them installed.

You can have a roller cam reground, get a custom slider cam, roller cam, whatever you want...

Stinger

Turbobob · Dec 1, 2003

Gotta chime in

OK I gotta chime in with my set up. I've done the big valve install into an oval port head and can see a big difference from the stock set up. I had the valves cut into the head before I unshrouded so I knew how far I had to go. My springs are not dual but show now trouble at all at high rpm. I also have the 60mm throttle body and let me tell you mister.....RESPONSE!!! would be an understatement. I chose this setup mainly 'cause I wanted more flow and throttle response. Well it worked. I can run less boost but get the same power as before. The airflow math has changed of course , but if you realize everything you've done and change accordingly , it's all good.
Needless to say I Love It!!

mr_woodster · Dec 1, 2003

Stinger said:
You do realize you will probably have 500-600 bucks minimum in the head if you want to do this right?

Stinger

if i go with just the valves (same sizes, just not the extra stuff) plus a valvejob i would have ~200 into the head, unless im missing something?

Turbobob · Dec 2, 2003

200

Yes that's about right. I allready had an A237 cam and roller followers so it was about thaty much to do the valves in.

mr_woodster · Dec 2, 2003

well tomorrow im ording my valves, i think my setup will be a fully ported head, new valves, roller rockers/ranger cam. that should take care of the head for the most part. im thinking if i want to have a custom cam someday , i wont hafta pull the head. Right now just setting things up in such a way that upgrades will mostly be accessable/external things that are (more) easily changed out, without having to pull the head, or the entire motor....though it is sooo much fun ;o)

mightypoof · Dec 3, 2003

My head as the machine shop right now getting the large valve conversion done.... I am pretty dam excited too....

oversize valves worth it?

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oversize valves worth it?

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