Planning my Build....need advice

rugster · Nov 12, 2007

Well its time to start beefing up this little pony so I have some plans as well as a few questions. My current thoughts are as follows:

Phase 1:
Forged Internals= $1675 + Balancing cost ...Haney Motorsports
H/V Cobra Oil Pump= $100 ...VT engines
Gaskets and Fluids= $125 ...Napa

Phase 2:
T-56 Transmission= $1200 ...Ebay
Cobra Driveshaft= $250 ...Corral
Speed Cal= $100 ...Dallas Mustang
UPR Shifter= $75 ...Ebay
Clutch= $200 ...Summit Racing

Phase 3:
Lightning MAF and Injectores= $300(total) ...Ebay
Dual Focus Pumps= $200 ...Superchargers Online
Vortech Bracket Assembly= $300 ...S.O.
Discharge Assembly= $200 ...S.O.
Vortech Intake Tubing= $210 ...S.O.
Oil Feed and Oil Drain Assemblies= $50 ...S.O.
Vortech T Trim head unit= $800 + $200 for rebuild ...Corral

Does anyone see anything else I will need besides a dyno tune? Should I get dished pistons? What size? I would like to see something above 550 RWHP.

rugster · Nov 13, 2007

joshjwc9 · Nov 13, 2007

I have a Couple suggestions...

Get the MGW shifter and a knob of your choice, your new tranny will love you!
Spend more than $200 on a clutch kit, look into Spec stages 3 or higher, or Centerforce or even Fidanza.

Blower Cams?

Sounds like you got your numbers down, plus if you need cash you can part out some of your PI parts.

Good luck and keep us updated!!!

rugster · Nov 13, 2007

What about the piston dish...could someone explain its purpose to me? What size would be best for my application? Also, how many pounds of boost would it take to achieve my goal numbers, and if I ever wanted to up the boost even more, how much could my stock block take?

rugster · Nov 16, 2007

anyone?

tiptone · Nov 16, 2007

rugster said:
What about the piston dish...could someone explain its purpose to me? What size would be best for my application? Also, how many pounds of boost would it take to achieve my goal numbers, and if I ever wanted to up the boost even more, how much could my stock block take?

Piston dish contributes to your compression ratio, smaller dish equals high CR, larger dish equals lower CR.

Consensus seems to be that the stock block is safe to the neighborhood of 450HP.

CobraRed_96_GT · Nov 16, 2007

tiptone said:
Piston dish contributes to your compression ratio, smaller dish equals high CR, larger dish equals lower CR.

Consensus seems to be that the stock block is safe to the neighborhood of 450HP.

the block is fine up untill around 600-700, it's iron. the rotating assembly starts being in question 425-450+

rugster · Nov 16, 2007

Well I am replacing the entire rotating assembly with a forged unit so thats no big deal. Anyone know what size dish would be best for me?

tiptone · Nov 16, 2007

CobraRed_96_GT said:
the block is fine up untill around 600-700, it's iron. the rotating assembly starts being in question 425-250+

Yeah, thanks for clearing that up. I meant the entire assembly and not specifically the chunk of iron, but it didn't read that way.

rugster said:
Well I am replacing the entire rotating assembly with a forged unit so thats no big deal. Anyone know what size dish would be best for me?

No smaller than stock, but ultimately it'll depend on the amount of boost you plan on running and/or power you're making.

BennyBlown2v · Nov 16, 2007

With PI heads, and a vortech, 19cc dish would be good. 8.5-8.9 compression is what you should be looking for.

If you want over 400-450rwhp you WILL need a better MAF than the lightning maf (SCT mafs are like $240 ish on ebay). Also 42lb injectors tend to max out at 550rwhp, I would go with 60lb.

You will need a cobra tank and pump assembly so add anywhere between $450 and $1000 for used/new. Personally I wouldn't bother with the focus pumps unless you can find a set REAL cheap (I picked up mine for $75 shipped), GT pumps or even stock cobra bumps with a BAP will outperform the focus pumps. Anything over 550rwhp you will most likely needed a modded FPDM, so that's another 280-ish or whatever.

If you think it will cost $1,675 for a forged rotating assembly you are wrong lol. JUST rods/pistons/bearings/rings/wrist pins etc. will cost you $1,200-$1,300, then assembly including the most basic machine work will cost 500-1000 bucks. Expect more if you're going overbore, which you will need to do if you are using a seasoned block. Also add another couple hundred bucks for a crank and polishing. Stock crank is good for around 600hp though, so there is no need to switch it out unless you're planning on making retarded power, heh.

CobraRed_96_GT · Nov 16, 2007

yeah larger dish means less compression means more boost you can run

rugster · Nov 17, 2007

BennyBlown2v said:
With PI heads, and a vortech, 19cc dish would be good. 8.5-8.9 compression is what you should be looking for.

If you want over 400-450rwhp you WILL need a better MAF than the lightning maf (SCT mafs are like $240 ish on ebay). Also 42lb injectors tend to max out at 550rwhp, I would go with 60lb.

You will need a cobra tank and pump assembly so add anywhere between $450 and $1000 for used/new. Personally I wouldn't bother with the focus pumps unless you can find a set REAL cheap (I picked up mine for $75 shipped), GT pumps or even stock cobra bumps with a BAP will outperform the focus pumps. Anything over 550rwhp you will most likely needed a modded FPDM, so that's another 280-ish or whatever.

If you think it will cost $1,675 for a forged rotating assembly you are wrong lol. JUST rods/pistons/bearings/rings/wrist pins etc. will cost you $1,200-$1,300, then assembly including the most basic machine work will cost 500-1000 bucks. Expect more if you're going overbore, which you will need to do if you are using a seasoned block. Also add another couple hundred bucks for a crank and polishing. Stock crank is good for around 600hp though, so there is no need to switch it out unless you're planning on making retarded power, heh.

http://www.haneymotorsport.com/HMS 4.6 Rotating Kits.htm
My dad likes toys so....the assembly, we have an 8 car garage at my dads house with a full shop as well as everything we need to assemble the block. We are going to have it boiled, and he is going to call in a few favors for the balancing and blueprinting. He built the AC cobra cars for a while and we have plenty of people around town that will hook us up with what we need.
As far as the new fuel tank, they are coming out with a new system for putting into GT tanks with baffling so you no longer need to change out the entire tank, should be releasing soon I hope (interesting stuff).

BennyBlown2v · Nov 17, 2007

rugster said:
http://www.haneymotorsport.com/HMS 4.6 Rotating Kits.htm
My dad likes toys so....the assembly, we have an 8 car garage at my dads house with a full shop as well as everything we need to assemble the block. We are going to have it boiled, and he is going to call in a few favors for the balancing and blueprinting. He built the AC cobra cars for a while and we have plenty of people around town that will hook us up with what we need.
As far as the new fuel tank, they are coming out with a new system for putting into GT tanks with baffling so you no longer need to change out the entire tank, should be releasing soon I hope (interesting stuff).

Yeah, but you gotta remember that fuel hat is gonna be a couple hundred bucks! The ones for cobras that are already out are $400... So buying a cobra tank is just about the same cost.

Yeah free/cheap labor is always nice and helps alot...but my main point is I just think you're underestimating the total cost of the project. Like add everything up then add $1000 to it (or $2000...lol). Little stuff ads up quick, just look at my suspension setup

rugster · Nov 18, 2007

Well my dad is the one that blew it up this time, so he can pick up the extra costs Besides I dont think hes happy playing with my little 300 hp mustang anyone when he gets to play with 8-900rwhp cars all the time.

TweekedGT · Nov 18, 2007

You're missing all the ARP hardware you need as well. 550rwhp is no joke. You'll be looking at an 8 rib pulley kit as well cause there is no way you going to be keeping belts on that thing with 550rwhp. I doubt you'll see it with that set up anyways. Go stroker, cams, heads and you might.

SaleenGT2001 · Nov 18, 2007

you are SEROIUSLY underestimating the costs of building an engine.

i had ALL the parts for my engine and my assembly and porting bill was $3100.
there is no way you can do it for $1600. the gaskets will run you at least $500.

you need to do a LOT more research before you jump into this!!

you should be looking to get much better parts than what you listed. a $200 clutch wont last at 550 RWHP. a good clutch will be closer to $400. you need a SCT MAF, thats another $300. then 60# injectors, another $300. then a cobra tank or even the new hat assembly you mentioned, another $400-$1000. focus pumps will not supply enough fuel. you need twin GT pumps, another $200. then a modded FPDM for $150. then upgrade the wiring for the fuel pumps for $50.

just those few parts and you're $2000 more in the hole already. in the REAL WORLD this will ned up costing you at least 10K for everything you want to do.

if it could be done for as cheap as what you said i wouldnt have over $25K in building my car!

rugster · Nov 18, 2007

SaleenGT2001 said:
you are SEROIUSLY underestimating the costs of building an engine.

i had ALL the parts for my engine and my assembly and porting bill was $3100.
there is no way you can do it for $1600. the gaskets will run you at least $500.

you need to do a LOT more research before you jump into this!!

you should be looking to get much better parts than what you listed. a $200 clutch wont last at 550 RWHP. a good clutch will be closer to $400. you need a SCT MAF, thats another $300. then 60# injectors, another $300. then a cobra tank or even the new hat assembly you mentioned, another $400-$1000. focus pumps will not supply enough fuel. you need twin GT pumps, another $200. then a modded FPDM for $150. then upgrade the wiring for the fuel pumps for $50.

just those few parts and you're $2000 more in the hole already. in the REAL WORLD this will ned up costing you at least 10K for everything you want to do.

if it could be done for as cheap as what you said i wouldnt have over $25K in building my car!

I am NOT porting my engine, and I am able to do the assembly by myself. I am simply having the cylinders honed, you can still see the cross hatches in my cylinder walls.
What kind of gaskets are you using that are $500???????????
A spec 3 clutch can be had online for $320. $120 over previously estimated price.
SCT MAF's go for $230.
Injectors $100 over previously estimated price.
Pumps $200 over previously estimated price.
As for the other parts, looks like some of them will cost a bit more, but not much in the scheme of things. Thats the type of info I was asking for in the first place (i.e. the focus pumps will not do the job)
Cobra Tank with pumps...if u saw my post last week I advertised one for 350 plus shipping...I know thats low but they are out there!

Bottom line is I knew I would be low, but I am really not that low! You spent so much money, but it looks like you didn't do the assembly or the research to find good deals. In this world many of us know that labor is always overpriced.

SaleenGT2001 · Nov 19, 2007

head gaskets are $120 each. it wont take long to add up.......trust me i am going thru the build process right now

rugster · Nov 19, 2007

MMR top of the line head gaskets are currently 169 for a pair

"MMR/Felpro Head Gaskets, 2V, 3V or 4V applications
Race/Street Gasket set, these are the finest gaskets available for your 4.6/5.4 GT or Cobra, as used by the MMR race team in our twin turbocharged 2100 HP 5.4."

BennyBlown2v · Nov 19, 2007

Kudos to you if you can do a true budget build, but it's a hard task to accomplish - it's not just buy the parts and put everything together, there are tons of hidden costs. If you're not paying for it, even better

Focus pumps will support about 530rwhp max, with a BAP 650+...but just cobra pumps with a BAP will do the same. There really is no reason to upgrade the FPDM unless you go with GT pumps, especially with a BAP. A wiring upgrade is gonna be required for that much power no matter what pumps you go with. You'll also want to remove the PPRV which will cost a couple bucks for the right tubing and clamps.

My goal is 550rwhp and I'm already $4000 just recently and am no where near done....and my list includes T56 and similar stuff you have listed (I still gotta get my internals and everything assembled too). Your list also doesn't mention anything about a shifter, so look to spend $150+ on that unless you find a good deal used. Also, good luck running a non-intercooled vortech setup at 550rwhp+, you'll get a lot of heatsoak.

Remember, there are guys on here that have DONE all this stuff, and we are trying to give you advice when you asked for it

Planning my Build....need advice

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