School the noob time: What's a Tweecer?

Husky44 · Nov 22, 2008

I know it has something to do with tuning.

My tuning knowledge it limited, and definitely old school (you do it with set screws, jets, needle positions, etc).

I'm still ignorant in the black magic of electronic tuning, but need to get smarter.

Is there a good "EFI for Dummies" book somewhere to teach me the basics, and help me understand what all of this wizardry is?

I get the impression from reading some of the posts on here that a lot of you tune your cars by taking it to someone with a dyno. But I've also seen people saying "tune it yourself", and seen the ricers using laptops in their passenger seats doing weird stuff.

I've got all winter to learn this stuff, since the 95's in hibernation, and the 67s not ready for tuning yet, but I need to start now.

Point me in the right direction for the fundamental education.

Thanks,
Greg

mhespenh · Nov 22, 2008

*subscribed*

Bosko5.0 · Nov 22, 2008

http://forums.stangnet.com/610658-tweecer-tuning-manual.html
The TwEECer -- EEC-IV user programmable module

you can download the software for free.

Husky44 · Nov 22, 2008

Bosko5.0 said:
http://forums.stangnet.com/610658-tweecer-tuning-manual.html
The TwEECer -- EEC-IV user programmable module

you can download the software for free.

OK, that's like drinking out of a firehose!!!

Technically, I did get what I asked for, but it was certainly a little overwhelming.

Probably all good information, but way too much tech gobblety**** for the noob brain.

Let me break it down to a few beginner questions:

1) So I buy this thing that hooks to my engine computer, load the software on my PC--then what?

a) Do I just drive the car, and see what it measures, then go to my PC and play with the numbers?

b) Is there something that tells me to increase measurement X? How do I know what measurements I want to change?

c) Do I change those numbers with a keyboard and mouse, swapping parts, turning adjustment screws?

2) What do I need to work on 2 cars (my 95 and my 67 with 91 EEC)? Two Tweecers?

3) Does this replace the need to go to the dyno shop? I'm not even sure if there is a dyno shop here, so that's important.

4) Is this something relatively easy to figure out? I don't want something so complex that I need an engineering degre or computer degree to figure out. I want to make sure that my cars are running at optimum performance, but I'm not building track cars here, just a DD and a weekend toy. Want it to be reliable first, and want it to be a hobby, not a lifetime obsession. Is this even necessary for an N/A car? Neither one of mine will be running boost or nitrous (at least not for the foreseeable future...)

neoxaero · Nov 22, 2008

Stock motor with stock computer - you dont need a tweecer.. might get a few extra HP out of it.. but that would require dyno tuning..

Heres a PDF that was included with my AEM PnP system..

http://www.godrinkaustin.net/AEM_EFI_Basics_V1_3.pdf

breaks down EFI pretty good.. makes it pretty easy to understand... delves into some of the AEM tuner features.. but its all pretty similar between systems

And to answer some of your questions as best as I can...

Husky44 said:
1) So I buy this thing that hooks to my engine computer, load the software on my PC--then what?

a) Do I just drive the car, and see what it measures, then go to my PC and play with the numbers?

b) Is there something that tells me to increase measurement X? How do I know what measurements I want to change?

c) Do I change those numbers with a keyboard and mouse, swapping parts, turning adjustment screws?

2) What do I need to work on 2 cars (my 95 and my 67 with 91 EEC)? Two Tweecers?

3) Does this replace the need to go to the dyno shop? I'm not even sure if there is a dyno shop here, so that's important.

4) Is this something relatively easy to figure out? I don't want something so complex that I need an engineering degre or computer degree to figure out. I want to make sure that my cars are running at optimum performance, but I'm not building track cars here, just a DD and a weekend toy. Want it to be reliable first, and want it to be a hobby, not a lifetime obsession. Is this even necessary for an N/A car? Neither one of mine will be running boost or nitrous (at least not for the foreseeable future...)

1. Exactly - the Tweecer, is whats known as a "piggy-back" system.. It connects between your stock computer and the wiring harness.. It basicly intercepts signals from sensors .. and signals sent from the computer to the injectors and such and modifies them based on how you've programmed the tweecer to do it.. IE - you upgrade to 24# injectors.. but have a 19# calibrated MAF.. you can edit that in the Tweecer so it "fools" the computer into thinking you have a 24# calibrated MAF..

A) Thats one way to do it... Dyno tuning IMO is more effective.. albeit more expensive

B) If you're running say.. a Wide Band O2 sensor with a gauge (or it inputs into the comp) it can tell you where to add/subtract fuel along the RPM curve

C) You would edit the "calibration" with your keyboard/mouse and then upload it to the Tweecer (or other EMS system you go with for that matter)

2) You would need 1 Tweecer per car - Same goes for any other system for that matter

3) It could replace the need to get the car Dyno tuned... IF you take the time and do the research and learn how to tune your car yourself -- I would say pay the money to get it dyno tuned...

4) Easy to figure out is relative to how much you know about how the system works.. For a beginner (IE, ME) its a pretty steep learning curve, but its something I'm interested in learning how to do.. So I don't mind spending time researching it... Though I'll have my car tuned by a professional first and then check out the tune he puts on the car... because I'd like to know how it works

I honestly wouldn't say you _need_ it unless you're planning on modding the car/s - or have already modded them..

I'm planning on building a fairly radical motor for mine -- so going with an aftermarket standalone made good sense for me (Or atleast I keep telling myself that....)

2002BLGT · Nov 22, 2008

I am a tuner ,and on a 95 and older car especially , if you arent prepared to put HOURS and I mean DAYS and HOURS into learning the entire tuning of the car , then your best bet is to take it to someone that has experience and let them tune it ...........the Tweecer has a steep learning curve and its not advised to tune it yourself because you can get it out of wack real quick ............

blksn955.o · Nov 22, 2008

neoxaero said:
1. Exactly - the Tweecer, is whats known as a "piggy-back" system.. It connects between your stock computer and the wiring harness.. It basicly intercepts signals from sensors .. and signals sent from the computer to the injectors and such and modifies them based on how you've programmed the tweecer to do it.. IE - you upgrade to 24# injectors.. but have a 19# calibrated MAF.. you can edit that in the Tweecer so it "fools" the computer into thinking you have a 24# calibrated MAF..

kinda sorta...the factory maf is not calibrated for any injector size. The maf has a transfer the relates to how much air coming in equals X voltage. Its not so much "fooling" the computer but reprogramming it with the correct information regarding the changes made. Injectors and maf are two separate things. One is fuel one is air they work together but separate. Sorry if this comes off as busting your chops...it is not my intention I agree with you, I just do not want to cause confusion when the OP starts looking/researching.

neoxaero said:
A) Thats one way to do it... Dyno tuning IMO is more effective.. albeit more expensive

Dyno tuning is great to get your WOT area of the tune nailed down as it can be controlled and is safer/legal on the higher end. One thing the dyno will have a shortfall is in the daily driving aspect as most dyno shops tune for WOT not real world conditions. Some do with load based dynos but you can dedicate far more time getting things just right in that area on the street. For WOT dyno or the track is perfect.

neoxaero said:
B) If you're running say.. a Wide Band O2 sensor with a gauge (or it inputs into the comp) it can tell you where to add/subtract fuel along the RPM curve

A wide band is gold with a self tuner/tuner. With the tweecerR/T many (mine is getting wired this way) wire the wideband to the EGR to sync up the data of the tuner and the W/B. This lets you see much more detailed info and that is a good thing. This brings up the R/T thing...R/T means Real Time in that it datalogs. The base tweecer will not do this and the dataloggin is pure GOLD.

neoxaero said:
C) You would edit the "calibration" with your keyboard/mouse and then upload it to the Tweecer (or other EMS system you go with for that matter)

There is a program called Eec Annalizer (EA) that is golden for a BIG chunk of the changes. This is a calculator that "reads" the datalog and gives you suggestions to input based on your combo and what the numbers "should" be. It is not perfect in that you dont need to spend the time learning what is what....it just speeds things up a bit and takes some of the headache out of self tuning. It IMHO has helped bring that 85* learning curve to about a 40-50* curve.

neoxaero said:
2) You would need 1 Tweecer per car - Same goes for any other system for that matter

Yep 2 tweecer's are needed. Unless you take the time...er...PITA to swap the thing and have a separate program to load for each car....really its a bit of a PITA.

neoxaero said:
3) It could replace the need to get the car Dyno tuned... IF you take the time and do the research and learn how to tune your car yourself -- I would say pay the money to get it dyno tuned...

Yes it does replace the dyno shop if you have a decent wideband. If you have a track to test changes to see what can get you more or less you will probably be fairly close to what a dyno tune will get. Remember a dyno is just a tool...much like a test & tune. Instead of making passes and waiting, on a dyno it is just faster. Every dyno will read differently just like every track will run a bit different.

neoxaero said:
4) Easy to figure out is relative to how much you know about how the system works.. For a beginner (IE, ME) its a pretty steep learning curve, but its something I'm interested in learning how to do.. So I don't mind spending time researching it... Though I'll have my car tuned by a professional first and then check out the tune he puts on the car... because I'd like to know how it works

I honestly wouldn't say you _need_ it unless you're planning on modding the car/s - or have already modded them..

I'm planning on building a fairly radical motor for mine -- so going with an aftermarket standalone made good sense for me (Or atleast I keep telling myself that....)

For a stock motor or avg. bolt on mods there are better things to spend your money on. If you have done a H/C/I or need to step up your injectors due to say boost then look into the tweecerR/T.

Going back the EA program it is really a great thing. You can download it for free IIRC but it will not do the calculations (its been a few years). The reason you might want to download before purchasing is the help files are great sources of info. Other areas to look for info are right here in the tuning forum...great group of people who offer help all the time. There is a great deal of information to search over if you have a question. There is also the eectuning forum that is great.

One thing...focus on the 94-95 strategy CBAZA as it is not the same as the fox guys or the 4.6 guys. The biggest thing to get down is the Maf transfer...this is how our cars figure out the load and the load is what everything is based off of (our eec is load based from this the fox was RPM based). There is a lot of good information here for our years...honestly I have not been to the eectuning site in some time since there is so much information here.

Lastly, I suggest you get the tweecerR/T again the base model is exactly like tuning in the dark as you can not collect the needed data to make sure you going in the right direction. Tuning is for the most part fine tuning...your not re-writing the entire EEC but specific areas and sometimes not even changing that much.

2002BLGT · Nov 22, 2008

In the words of the great Yoda

"EFI for Dummies" this is not

blksn955.o · Nov 22, 2008

get used to this feeling for sure...stock up on vodka, redbull, asprine, and lock up the guns because you will at some point want to go postal on something.

neoxaero · Nov 22, 2008

blksn955.o said:
get used to this feeling for sure...stock up on vodka, redbull, asprine, and lock up the guns because you will at some point want to go postal on something.

^^^^^ +1

I'm at the shooting myself in the head phase already

can't get my car to idle for more than 3-4seconds...

2002BLGT · Nov 23, 2008

neoxaero said:
^^^^^ +1

I'm at the shooting myself in the head phase already

can't get my car to idle for more than 3-4seconds...

you are using the AEM ?

final5-0 · Nov 23, 2008

I used to get VERY involved in these kinds of threads

Haven't done so in 2 to 3 years but those detailed posts are still around

I'll just touch on what I believe to be the most important things
a self tuning noobie needs to be aware of

Tweecer gives pcm access to most things a NA h/c/i combo needs
and
It gives access to more areas in the pcm than some of the other methods

I would tell you ...The Tweecer or its software is NOT the issue of concern

Anybody should be able to get it connected and master the use of
the porgram in 2 to 4 hours

The real challenge to a noob is gonna be a two fold thing :Word:

1) A basic (not all encompassing) understanding of the pcm
2) A basic understanding of how +or- changes of fuel/spark effects things

1) In other words ... If you understand how the pmc does its thing ........
You'll have no poblem seeing why ..........
It no longer works correctly because of the hot rod parts you installed

1) Another thought along these lines .........

How in the world are you gonna improve something
if
You don't understand how it works in the first place

2) More or less fuel/spark needed can be determined by the real time data
(datalogs) which is part of the Tweecer method of tuning

Do you see where I'm trying to go here?

You need to be able to understand .....

W H Y would I want to make a change
and
That has nothing to do with the Tweecer software

The Tweecer is just a tool to make those changes

I can not underestimate the benefit and power of datalogging

Data Logging gives you info no different that what the Pro Tuners use
when they do their thing while your car is on the dyno

IMHO ... hard data is so helpful to a self tuner :Word:

I got some noobie basic stuff on my site if you care to take a look

Grady

Husky44 · Nov 24, 2008

final5-0 said:
I got some noobie basic stuff on my site if you care to take a look

Grady

Grady: Good stuff! Much closer to EFI for Dummies than the other links.

I'm still considering, but whether or not there's a good dyno shop in Anchorage will make a big difference. I'm interested in getting a tune done on the 95, because it's running some aftermarket stuff, and probably needs it.

My primary interest though, is for the 67. The engine was running (poorly) in the donor car (91 GT). I've done had the motor rebuilt, and will be installing the wiring, including the ECM from the 91. The PO of the donor car says he had a custom tune done, but something wasn't right. I'm going to be starting a new engine, with some pretty significant changes from stock, and trying to do a startup in my garage. I think I'm gonna need help! That's where I see the Tweecer coming in.

Thanks again. I'll be reading a lot over the winter.

SeventyMach1 · Nov 24, 2008

Husky44 said:
and seen the ricers using laptops in their passenger seats doing weird stuff

They were on StangNet drooling again.

School the noob time: What's a Tweecer?

Husky44

mhespenh

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Bosko5.0

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Husky44

neoxaero

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2002BLGT

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blksn955.o

2002BLGT

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blksn955.o

neoxaero

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2002BLGT

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final5-0

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Husky44

SeventyMach1

Keep it lubed .... keep it straight .... and keep

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