Electrical Starting Issue... Confused 91 GT

Steel1 said:

Have you had the distributor out lately, if so was it reinstalled at TDC ?

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General karthief said:

Read and follow step by step.

Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected 5.0 Mustangs model years 1986-1995 A word about this checklist before you start: it is arranged in a specific order to put the most likely failure items first. That will save you time, energy and money. Start at the top of the list and work...

www.stangnet.com

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General karthief said:

You pretty much have to get the right door open to get the kick panel off and get to the computer, if not you can break the plastic trim

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Shooter50 said:

Bump..

So I have replaced capacitors on the Computer, they were toast, but still no luck..
Have crank and spark, computer relay works properly, power is correct at pump relay and injectors.
Still not getting (computer) ground at injectors or pump relay.. (fuel pump will run if I jump test ground)

Any test procedures for computer/harness connector? Other Ideas appreciated..

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jrichker said:

What I am hearing is that you read the Cranks OK but no Start checklist but didn't necessarily do all of the tests.
For the engine to not run, at least one of the tests has to fail. How do I know that? I am the guy who wrote the checklist...

The computer provides ground for all actuators, injectors and solenoids, it does not provide power to any of these items.

Are you getting a pulse at the injectors when using a noid light?

Is the computer main power ground connected?

Have you dumped the computer codes?





Computer & interchange information for 5.0 Mustang

Revised 16-Oct-2011 to add O2 sensor harness warnings

The Mass Air computers from 89-93 are interchangeable with a few exceptions. Just be sure you use the MAF & MAF sensor from the same series computer. The auto transmission computers use a different start circuit than the manual computers. You can use an auto trans computer in a 5 speed car with no problems or changes. I have done it in my original 89 Mustang GT, and I know it works OK. I would recommend avoiding using a 5 speed computer in an auto trans car due to the possibility of damaging the computer’ internal signal ground circuitry.

The odd duck is the 93 Cobra computer, labeled X3Z which is internally calibrated for 24 lb injectors. Use the MAF & MAF sensor from the X3Z computer to avoid problems with the computer's internal calibration. Try and avoid the 93 Cobra computer if you can.

Some cautions about O2 Sensor harnesses need to be observed to avoid damage to the computer.
Only run a 5 speed trans O2 harness with an A9L. Do not run an Auto O2 sensor harness with an A9L. Doing so will damage the computer’s internal signal ground.
Only run an Auto trans O2 sensor harness with an A9P in a car that has an Auto trans. Using a 5 speed trans O2 sensor harness with an Auto trans will cause no crank problems.
See http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/1094179-oxygen-sensor- harnesses-manual-auto-differences-year-differences.html for more O2 sensor wiring harness info
If you have a damaged computer with signal ground problems, See http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/749974-computer-issue.html#post7490537 for Joel5.0’s fix to the computer internal signal ground.

All the following are mass air unless they say Speed Density
8LD - MANUAL 88 5.0L Mustang Mass Air - California
8LF - Auto 88 5.0L Mustang Mass Air- California
8LG - Auto 88 5.0L Mustang Mass Air- California
A9L - 89-93 5.0L Mustang 5-spd Mass Air
A3M - 93 5.0L Mustang 5-spd Mass Air
A3M1 - 93 5.0L Mustang 5-spd Mass Air
X3Z - 93 5.0L Cobra 5-spd Mass Air internally calibrated for 24 lb injector
A9P - 89-93 5.0L Mustang Auto Mass Air
A9S - 88 5.0L Mustang California Mass Air
C3W - 89-93 5.0L Mustang Auto
DA1 - 87 5.0L Mustang 5-spd Speed Density
J4J1 - 94-95 5.0L SVT Cobra 5-spd
T4M0 - 94-95 5.0L GT Vert 5-spd
U4P0 - 94-95 5.0L GT Auto
W4H0 - 94-95 5.0L GT
ZA0 - 95 Cobra R
D9S - 88 Lincoln LSC Speed Density

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jrichker said:

Dump codes sticky

Look at the top of the 5.0 Tech forum where the sticky threads are posted. One of them is how to dump the computer codes. Codes may be present even if the CEL (Check Engine Light) isn’t on. You don’t need a code reader or scanner – all you need is a paper clip, or if your lady friend has a hair pin, that will do the job.
I highly suggest that you read it and follow the instructions to dump the codes. http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/how-to-pull-codes-from-eec4.889006/

No pulse from the injectors is probably a PIP problem, may show a code 14 dumping the codes. Code 14 - Ignition pickup (PIP) was erratic – the Hall Effect sensor in the distributor is failing. Bad sensor, bad wiring, dirty contacts. Factory tach will sometimes read erratically.

Revised 8-Apr-2017 to correct SPOUT problem symptoms wording

The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

PIP Sensor functionality, testing and replacement:
The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. A failing PIP sensor will often set code 14 in the computer. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

Some simple checks to do before replacing the PIP sensor or distributor:
You will need a Multimeter or DVM with good batteries: test or replace them before you get started.. You may also need some extra 16-18 gauge wire to extend the length of the meter’s test leads.
Visual check first: look for chaffed or damaged wiring and loose connector pins in the TFI harness connector.
Check the IDM wiring – dark green/yellow wire from the TFI module to pin 4 on the computer. There is a 22K Ohm resistor in the wiring between the TFI and the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 22,000 ohms +/- 10%.
Check the PIP wiring - dark blue from the TFI module to pin 56 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the SPOUT wiring – yellow/lt green from the TFI module to pin 36 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the black/orange wire from the TFI module to pin 16 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the red/green wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch on and the engine not running.
Check the red/blue wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch in Start and the engine not running. Watch out for the fan blades when you do this test, since the engine will be cranking.
If you do not find any chaffed or broken wires, high resistance connections or loose pins in the wiring harness, replace the PIP sensor or the distributor.

The PIP sensor is mounted in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. In stock Ford distributors, you have to press the gear off the distributor shaft to get access to it to replace it. Most guys just end up replacing the distributor with a reman unit for about $75 exchange

PIP problems & diagnostic info
Spark with the SPOUT out, but not with the SPOUT in suggests a PIP problem. The PIP signal level needs to be above 6.5 volts to trigger the computer to pulse the fuel injectors, but only needs to be 5.75 volts to trigger the TFI module. Hence with a weak PIP signal, and the SPOUT in, you could get spark but no injector pulse. You will need an oscilloscope or graphing DVM to measure the output voltage since it is not a straight DC voltage.

See http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i2_2004.pdf and http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i3_2004.pdf for verification of this little detail from Wells, a manufacturer of TFI modules and ignition system products.

Click to expand...

jrichker said:

Dump codes sticky

Look at the top of the 5.0 Tech forum where the sticky threads are posted. One of them is how to dump the computer codes. Codes may be present even if the CEL (Check Engine Light) isn’t on. You don’t need a code reader or scanner – all you need is a paper clip, or if your lady friend has a hair pin, that will do the job.
I highly suggest that you read it and follow the instructions to dump the codes. http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/how-to-pull-codes-from-eec4.889006/

No pulse from the injectors is probably a PIP problem, may show a code 14 dumping the codes. Code 14 - Ignition pickup (PIP) was erratic – the Hall Effect sensor in the distributor is failing. Bad sensor, bad wiring, dirty contacts. Factory tach will sometimes read erratically.

Revised 8-Apr-2017 to correct SPOUT problem symptoms wording

The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

PIP Sensor functionality, testing and replacement:
The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. A failing PIP sensor will often set code 14 in the computer. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

Some simple checks to do before replacing the PIP sensor or distributor:
You will need a Multimeter or DVM with good batteries: test or replace them before you get started.. You may also need some extra 16-18 gauge wire to extend the length of the meter’s test leads.
Visual check first: look for chaffed or damaged wiring and loose connector pins in the TFI harness connector.
Check the IDM wiring – dark green/yellow wire from the TFI module to pin 4 on the computer. There is a 22K Ohm resistor in the wiring between the TFI and the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 22,000 ohms +/- 10%.
Check the PIP wiring - dark blue from the TFI module to pin 56 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the SPOUT wiring – yellow/lt green from the TFI module to pin 36 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the black/orange wire from the TFI module to pin 16 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the red/green wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch on and the engine not running.
Check the red/blue wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch in Start and the engine not running. Watch out for the fan blades when you do this test, since the engine will be cranking.
If you do not find any chaffed or broken wires, high resistance connections or loose pins in the wiring harness, replace the PIP sensor or the distributor.

The PIP sensor is mounted in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. In stock Ford distributors, you have to press the gear off the distributor shaft to get access to it to replace it. Most guys just end up replacing the distributor with a reman unit for about $75 exchange

PIP problems & diagnostic info
Spark with the SPOUT out, but not with the SPOUT in suggests a PIP problem. The PIP signal level needs to be above 6.5 volts to trigger the computer to pulse the fuel injectors, but only needs to be 5.75 volts to trigger the TFI module. Hence with a weak PIP signal, and the SPOUT in, you could get spark but no injector pulse. You will need an oscilloscope or graphing DVM to measure the output voltage since it is not a straight DC voltage.

See http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i2_2004.pdf and http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i3_2004.pdf for verification of this little detail from Wells, a manufacturer of TFI modules and ignition system products.

Click to expand...