Starting problem.

95BLKGT5.0 · Sep 17, 2008

I have a starting problem.

The car started fine then drove home 2.3 miles and when I went to leave! Nothing, nadda, Zilch It just clicked.

This is what I have done so far.
1) Made sure battery was fully charged.
2) Battery connection: cleaned both posts and connections.
3) Cleaned Starter connections.
4) Replaced Starter with new not rebuilt.
5) Checked voltage at clutch safety switch and nothing tried bypassing it also.
6) Replaced starter relay. There was 3 relays in the fuse box and I did not know what relay was the starter in the fuse box so I tried switching one at a time.

Same thing just clicks will not even turn over.

95BLKGT5.0

Chythar · Sep 18, 2008

Batteries can show good voltage (~14.3V) but not have enough cranking amps. Can you get someone to try and jump start the Stang? If the car starts that way the battery is toast no matter what the voltage says.

When you try to start the car, does the voltage gauge move at all? I had a weird starting problem where the voltage gauge would dip a lot when trying to start. Turned out to be corrosion under the distributor cap.

mustangapril · Sep 18, 2008

I had this happen recently with my car. Is your check engine light on? If so, check your ignition module and the main coil. From my experience, I had to replace both AS WELL AS the pickup coil inside the distributer (I have a 94 so it's inside. 95's may be outside the distributer) Fortunately, it all ran me under $100.

desertcox05 · Sep 18, 2008

ck your batt cables. you could have corrosion inside the insulation. if your hearing the relay click then your clutch sw is prob ok. can you ck the volts to the starter?

HISSIN50 · Sep 18, 2008

95BLKGT5.0 said:
I have a starting problem.

The car started fine then drove home 2.3 miles and when I went to leave! Nothing, nadda, Zilch It just clicked.

This is what I have done so far.
1) Made sure battery was fully charged.
2) Battery connection: cleaned both posts and connections.
3) Cleaned Starter connections.
4) Replaced Starter with new not rebuilt.
5) Checked voltage at clutch safety switch and nothing tried bypassing it also.
6) Replaced starter relay. There was 3 relays in the fuse box and I did not know what relay was the starter in the fuse box so I tried switching one at a time.

Same thing just clicks will not even turn over.

95BLKGT5.0

Is the click like a relay clicking, or is it more like an automatic weapon dry-firing?

If you hear a dry-fire noise, check your motor ground. A jumper cable from the block to the frame makes a quick diagnostic ground pathway. If the car now starts, you have a bad motor ground (the starter needs a big ground pathway).

If the click is real light (relay or CSS click), and the CSS does not show voltage, that suggests an interlock issue.

With the key turned to 'crank' and the clutch pedal depressed, you should see 12 volts into and out of the switch.

If you have it in but not out, the switch has an issue.

If you dont have 12 even reaching the switch, the issue is towards the ignition switch.

If you have 12 in and out of the CSS, go to the starter relay (it's the middle relay of the 3 in the underhood box). Pull the relay and look for 12 volts while cranking at relay terminal 86 (IIRC. If 86 shows no voltage, do the same test on terminal 85 in case my memory is bad. I am pretty sure 86 is the positive coil terminal on a 94-95 however). The numbers for the relay terminals are embossed adjacent the terminals on the relay itself.

Once you test at the CSS, we will have a direction to go and can narrow down the diagnostics more precisely.

Good luck.

95BLKGT5.0 · Sep 23, 2008

Chythar said:
Batteries can show good voltage (~14.3V) but not have enough cranking amps. Can you get someone to try and jump start the Stang? If the car starts that way the battery is toast no matter what the voltage says.

When you try to start the car, does the voltage gauge move at all? I had a weird starting problem where the voltage gauge would dip a lot when trying to start. Turned out to be corrosion under the distributor cap.

The battery is good had it checked and its only 1 year old diehard. Connections have all be checked and all have been cleaned. The voltage gauge does not dip at all.

95BLKGT5.0 · Sep 23, 2008

mustangapril said:
I had this happen recently with my car. Is your check engine light on? If so, check your ignition module and the main coil. From my experience, I had to replace both AS WELL AS the pickup coil inside the distributer (I have a 94 so it's inside. 95's may be outside the distributer) Fortunately, it all ran me under $100.

Thanks for the reply.

The check engine light does not come on.
Ignition module, distributer and the main coil are new.

95BLKGT5.0 · Sep 23, 2008

desertcox05 said:
ck your batt cables. you could have corrosion inside the insulation. if your hearing the relay click then your clutch sw is prob ok. can you ck the volts to the starter?

Thanks for the reply.

All the connections have been cleaned and the starter is new (not rebuilt)
Clutch relay was checked and is good. Also use my truck and jumper cables to try and start it.

95BLKGT5.0 · Sep 23, 2008

HISSIN50 said:
Is the click like a relay clicking, or is it more like an automatic weapon dry-firing?

If you hear a dry-fire noise, check your motor ground. A jumper cable from the block to the frame makes a quick diagnostic ground pathway. If the car now starts, you have a bad motor ground (the starter needs a big ground pathway).

If the click is real light (relay or CSS click), and the CSS does not show voltage, that suggests an interlock issue.

With the key turned to 'crank' and the clutch pedal depressed, you should see 12 volts into and out of the switch.

If you have it in but not out, the switch has an issue.

If you dont have 12 even reaching the switch, the issue is towards the ignition switch.

If you have 12 in and out of the CSS, go to the starter relay (it's the middle relay of the 3 in the underhood box). Pull the relay and look for 12 volts while cranking at relay terminal 86 (IIRC. If 86 shows no voltage, do the same test on terminal 85 in case my memory is bad. I am pretty sure 86 is the positive coil terminal on a 94-95 however). The numbers for the relay terminals are embossed adjacent the terminals on the relay itself.

Once you test at the CSS, we will have a direction to go and can narrow down the diagnostics more precisely.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply.

I went through all the reply's and double checked everything and I am now working on your process. I had to buy a Multi-Meter and have to learn how to use it.

First a dummy question what is the CSS?

The clicking is not a dry-fire noise sound. It is a loud click!

Replaced starter relay (middle one in fuse box)

When I find out what the CSS is I can go from there.

Again thanks to all for the help.
:SNSign:

HISSIN50 · Sep 23, 2008

CSS = clutch safety switch. The switch on the clutch pedal assembly. On our cars IIRC, it is above the gas pedal (on the passenger side of the pedal box assembly. I actually have a picture of a pedal box saved somewhere if you need more help finding it).

One misleading thing with this sort of issue is that a click can occur from the circuits which go dead during cranking, even if the rest of the starter interlock circuit is disconnected (the commanding of the other circuits to shut down during cranking occurs at the ignition switch itself - this is so you have max power to crank the engine).

10 seconds of testing the CSS (you can use a test light if you like) will tell you volumes.

For your meter, the two basic settings you'll use are voltage readings and resistance readings. For voltage, set you meter to the 20 Volt DC setting, ground the black lead and probe the circuit in question with the red lead.

The following is kind of a neat site that shows how to test things. I like that it has diagrams with the meter, which helps folks out quite a bit it seems. Take a run through the pages if you like:

Click me

k00ksta · Sep 25, 2008

Ground Wires!

Be sure your ground wires to the block are GOOD as well. Everyone always checks the "RED" wires and never really looks at their grounding braids. One other thing I would suggest pull the plug that connects to the starter not the RED wire but the smaller wire which plugs into the starter. Throw your positive lead off your multi-meter into that plug and then the negative just ground it on the frame of the car somewhere. Get someone else to try to turn the key. You should have if im not mistaken 12 Volts at the starter when the key is turned on that wire. Which then trips the selonoid on the starter closing the loop which makes the starter pull the draw off the higher amperage 12V wire that is screwed down to to the starter. This will rule out any wiring from the ignition to the starter. If you got yourself around 12v their hook it back up because that is fine. Now if your this far your almost out of the woods the other 12V line that comes to the starter is most likely OK as well but I would seriously start checking all Ground Braids to the "Engine Block" primarally the one that comes right off the Negative Battery terminal and goes thru some convoluted tubing and then bolts right to the block (driver side right under the power steering pump I think). Take that sucker off and clean it as well. Do some of these steps and then report back with your findings. Hopefully just cleaning the ground to the block solves this issue for you.

95BLKGT5.0 · Sep 27, 2008

k00ksta said:
Be sure your ground wires to the block are GOOD as well. Everyone always checks the "RED" wires and never really looks at their grounding braids. One other thing I would suggest pull the plug that connects to the starter not the RED wire but the smaller wire which plugs into the starter. Throw your positive lead off your multi-meter into that plug and then the negative just ground it on the frame of the car somewhere. Get someone else to try to turn the key. You should have if im not mistaken 12 Volts at the starter when the key is turned on that wire. Which then trips the selonoid on the starter closing the loop which makes the starter pull the draw off the higher amperage 12V wire that is screwed down to to the starter. This will rule out any wiring from the ignition to the starter. If you got yourself around 12v their hook it back up because that is fine. Now if your this far your almost out of the woods the other 12V line that comes to the starter is most likely OK as well but I would seriously start checking all Ground Braids to the "Engine Block" primarally the one that comes right off the Negative Battery terminal and goes thru some convoluted tubing and then bolts right to the block (driver side right under the power steering pump I think). Take that sucker off and clean it as well. Do some of these steps and then report back with your findings. Hopefully just cleaning the ground to the block solves this issue for you.

Thanks for the reply.
Checked all the ground wires and cleaned them really good. Also checked voltage at the started like you said and it had 12 volts.

Still nothing. I also pulled the plug (bottom black one) on the CSS and put my meter on that and got .06 volts.

95BLKGT5.0 · Sep 27, 2008

HISSIN50 said:
CSS = clutch safety switch. The switch on the clutch pedal assembly. On our cars IIRC, it is above the gas pedal (on the passenger side of the pedal box assembly. I actually have a picture of a pedal box saved somewhere if you need more help finding it).

One misleading thing with this sort of issue is that a click can occur from the circuits which go dead during cranking, even if the rest of the starter interlock circuit is disconnected (the commanding of the other circuits to shut down during cranking occurs at the ignition switch itself - this is so you have max power to crank the engine).

10 seconds of testing the CSS (you can use a test light if you like) will tell you volumes.

For your meter, the two basic settings you'll use are voltage readings and resistance readings. For voltage, set you meter to the 20 Volt DC setting, ground the black lead and probe the circuit in question with the red lead.

The following is kind of a neat site that shows how to test things. I like that it has diagrams with the meter, which helps folks out quite a bit it seems. Take a run through the pages if you like:

Click me

Thanks for the help.

I could use that picture of a pedal box you said you had so I know I'm checking the right switch.

Still just clicks when I turn the key. I think I checked the wrong clutch safety switch.

HISSIN50 · Sep 27, 2008

I cant find the pic I had in mind, but did find one from Davis3. See the second pic in post 9

Looks to me like the right-most switch is the CSS (to the right of the steering shaft in the pic).

95BLKGT5.0 · Sep 30, 2008

HISSIN50 said:
I cant find the pic I had in mind, but did find one from Davis3. See the second pic in post 9

Looks to me like the right-most switch is the CSS (to the right of the steering shaft in the pic).

So I am confused I thought the clutch safety switch was on the clutch pedal?
In that photo are you talking about the white square relay looking thing is that what i test for 12V? My car is a GT not IIRC are they different? Can you please explain how I check the switch. And once I check that how do I check the ignition switch.

HISSIN50 · Sep 30, 2008

95BLKGT5.0 said:
So I am confused I thought the clutch safety switch was on the clutch pedal?
In that photo are you talking about the white square relay looking thing is that what i test for 12V? My car is a GT not IIRC are they different? Can you please explain how I check the switch. And once I check that how do I check the ignition switch.

It well could be that I have my switches crossed. The other switch (above the gas pedal) hits the quadrant to make it function. But since it looks like I'm wrong, my aplogies.

Just look for red/blue (IIRC) and white/pink (for sure. This is what leaves the ig switch and goes to the CSS) wires going to a switch - that's the CSS circuit. The wires will only show voltage while cranking. You can find the switch without depressing the clutch pedal (the white/pink wire is hot with the clutch at rest while cranking). But to test the other wire, you need to depress the clutch pedal or manually close the switch.

If you have voltage into the switch but not leaving it, remove the switch and test continuity across the terminals. With the switch at rest, the meter will read infinite resistance. With you pushing the plunger, the resistance should be almost nill.

I can also tell you how to bypass all that crap just so you can start the car (in case you need to run it, move it, etc). I made a jumper to do this on my car (in case my CSS ever fails in a parking lot at 2 am).

This should all take but a few mins to track down and test.

Sorry again for the confusion.

95BLKGT5.0 · Oct 1, 2008

HISSIN50 said:
It well could be that I have my switches crossed. The other switch (above the gas pedal) hits the quadrant to make it function. But since it looks like I'm wrong, my aplogies.

Just look for red/blue (IIRC) and white/pink (for sure. This is what leaves the ig switch and goes to the CSS) wires going to a switch - that's the CSS circuit. The wires will only show voltage while cranking. You can find the switch without depressing the clutch pedal (the white/pink wire is hot with the clutch at rest while cranking). But to test the other wire, you need to depress the clutch pedal or manually close the switch.

If you have voltage into the switch but not leaving it, remove the switch and test continuity across the terminals. With the switch at rest, the meter will read infinite resistance. With you pushing the plunger, the resistance should be almost nill.

I can also tell you how to bypass all that crap just so you can start the car (in case you need to run it, move it, etc). I made a jumper to do this on my car (in case my CSS ever fails in a parking lot at 2 am).

This should all take but a few mins to track down and test.

Sorry again for the confusion.

Thanks again your helping me.

I'll check the wires red/blue and white/pink for the resistance.

If I bypass the switch and the car starts then I'll know that it's the switch and I can just replace it ($37.50). Yes please tell me how to bypass all that crap just so I can start the car. If it does not start then is the next step do I check the ignition switch.

Thanks.

revhead347 · Oct 1, 2008

I'm willing to bet your starter is getting heat soaked. That is why it won't start after you drive a few miles. This is a common problem with long tube cars. My car used to do the same thing. The new starters you buy at the parts stores are made with lower quality materials compared to the stock ones. If you are getting a click from the starter, then it isn't a switch, CSS or any of that nonsense. I would say either a ground, main power cable, or the starter itself. If you can put together the cash, a Denso gear reduction starter will cure all starting ailments. That's what I did, and I've never had a starting issue since. They sell them at Advance and I'm sure Summit has them too. I think I paid $180 for mine, but that was 7 years ago, they've come down in price a few dollars since then.

Kurt

95BLKGT5.0 · Oct 1, 2008

revhead347 said:
I'm willing to bet your starter is getting heat soaked. That is why it won't start after you drive a few miles. This is a common problem with long tube cars. My car used to do the same thing. The new starters you buy at the parts stores are made with lower quality materials compared to the stock ones. If you are getting a click from the starter, then it isn't a switch, CSS or any of that nonsense. I would say either a ground, main power cable, or the starter itself. If you can put together the cash, a Denso gear reduction starter will cure all starting ailments. That's what I did, and I've never had a starting issue since. They sell them at Advance and I'm sure Summit has them too. I think I paid $180 for mine, but that was 7 years ago, they've come down in price a few dollars since then.

Kurt

Already been through this.
Can't get hot if it will not start.

This is what I have done so far.
1) Made sure battery was fully charged and had it checked.
2) Battery connection: cleaned both posts and connections and replaced cables with new.
3) Cleaned Starter connections.
4) Replaced Starter with new not rebuilt.
5) Working on checking voltage at clutch safety switch. bypassing it also.
6) Replaced starter relay. There was 3 relays in the fuse box and I did not know what relay was the starter in the fuse box so I tried switching one at a time.

Same thing just clicks will not even turn over.

HISSIN50 · Oct 1, 2008

95BLKGT5.0 said:
Thanks again your helping me.

I'll check the wires red/blue and white/pink for the resistance.

If I bypass the switch and the car starts then I'll know that it's the switch and I can just replace it ($37.50). Yes please tell me how to bypass all that crap just so I can start the car. If it does not start then is the next step do I check the ignition switch.

Thanks.

You'd be testing across the disconnected switch for resistance.
If testing with the wires connected, you'd be doing voltage checks.

If you pull the starter relay in the underhood fusebox, jump terminals 87 and 30 (the relay has numbers embossed on it, adjacent the terminals). You must be sure the Emergency Brake is applied and the car is in neutral because you'll be bypassing the safety interlock circuit.

If your key is turned to run and you do this, the car will crank and start if it's able. If you don't have the ignition turned on, the car will just crank.

Starting problem.

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