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Engine Stuck On The Side Of The Road

  • Thread starter Thread starter joepawlenty
  • Start date Start date Sep 14, 2017
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joepawlenty

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Sep 18, 2017
#21
  • Sep 18, 2017
  • #21
I just pulled the codes after installing a new coolant temp sensor for the ecu and i am getting 21, 22,41,91,33, 13 with the engine running. does 22 mean the baro is shot or is there further testing i should do?
 

jrichker

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Sep 19, 2017
#22
  • Sep 19, 2017
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Fix the code 22 first; it may fix the 41/91 codes at the same time.

What did you get for the engine running codes?


Code 21 – ECT sensor out of range. Broken or damaged wiring, bad ECT sensor.

[color= blue]Revised 6-Apr-2017 to add diagrams and resistance check for ECT wiring.[/color]

Note that that if the outside air temp is below 50 degrees F that the test for the ECT can be in error. Warm the engine up until you get good hot air from the heater and then dump the codes again.

The computer Engine Coolant Temperature sensor has absolutely nothing to do with the temperature gauge. They are different animals. The ECT sensor is normally located it the passenger side front of the engine in the water feed tubes for the heater. It has two wires that connect by a weathertight plastic connector.

The water temperature sender for the temp gauge is located in the driver's side lower intake manifold. It has a single wire that connects by a push on connector on the temp sender.


If you have replaced the ECT sensor and are still having ECT like problem symptoms, check the ECT wiring .

Computer wiring harness connector, wire side


Computer wiring harness connector, computer side



See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.


Check the resistance of the green wire on the ECT connector to the green wire on pin 7 of the computer connector. You should see less that 1 Ω (ohm)

The ACT & ECT have the same thermistor, so the table values are the same

ACT & ECT test data:

Use Pin 46 on the computer for ground for both ECT & ACT to get most accurate readings.

Pin 7 on the computer - ECT signal in. At 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts

Pin 25 on the computer - ACT signal in. At 50 degrees F it should be 3.5 volts. It is a good number if the ACT is mounted in the inlet airbox. If it is mounted in the lower intake manifold, the voltage readings will be lower because of the heat transfer.


Voltages may be measured across the ECT/ACT by probing the connector from the rear. A pair of safety pins may be helpful in doing this. Use care in doing it so that you don't damage the wiring or connector.

Here's the table :

50 degrees F = 3.52 v
68 degrees F = 3.02 v
86 degrees F = 2.62 v
104 degrees F = 2.16 v
122 degrees F = 1.72 v
140 degrees F = 1.35 v
158 degrees F = 1.04 v
176 degrees F = .80 v
194 degrees F = .61
212 degrees F = .47 v
230 degrees F = .36 v
248 degrees F = .28 v

Ohms measures at the computer with the computer disconnected, or at the sensor with the sensor disconnected.

50 degrees F = 58.75 K ohms
68 degrees F = 37.30 K ohms
86 degrees F = 27.27 K ohms
104 degrees F = 16.15 K ohms
122 degrees F = 10.97 K ohms
140 degrees F = 7.60 K ohms
158 degrees F = 5.37 K ohms
176 degrees F = 3.84 K ohms
194 degrees F = 2.80 K ohms
212 degrees F = 2.07 K ohms
230 degrees F = 1.55 K ohms
248 degrees F = 1.18 k ohms

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds



See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds
(website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg



MAP/BARO sensor operation and code 22

Revised 14-Nov-2014 to add wire colors for frequency & voltage testing and engine sensor wiring diagrams.

On a Speed Density car, the MAP/BARO sensor is connected to the intake manifold and acts to sense the manifold pressure. Lower vacuum inside the intake manifold when combined with more throttle opening measured by the TPS means more airflow through the engine. As airflow increases, fuel flow through the injectors needs to increase to keep the air/fuel ratio where it needs to be. When manifold vacuum increases, the engine is either decelerating or idling, and it needs to reduce the fuel flow through the injectors.

On a Mass Air car, the MAP/BARO sensor vents to open air and actually senses the barometric pressure due to changes in weather and altitude. Its purpose is to set a baseline for the computer to know the barometric pressure. As barometric pressure decreases, it leans out the fuel flow to compensate for less oxygen in the air. When the barometric pressure rises, it increases to add fuel since there is more oxygen in the air. The fuel requirements decrease as altitude increases, since the atmospheric pressure decreases.

Disconnecting the MAP or BARO sensor will set code 22.

Misconnecting the BARO sensor to vacuum on a Mass Air car will cause the computer to lean out the fuel mixture.

Code 22 or 126 MAP (vacuum) or BARO signal out of range. The MAP or BARO sensor is pretty much the same sensor for both Mass Air & Speed Density cars. The main difference is where it is connected. Mass Air cars vent it to the atmosphere, while Speed Density cars connect it to the intake manifold vacuum. Its purpose is to help set a baseline for the air/fuel mixture by sensing changes in barometric pressure. The MAP or BAP sensor puts out a 5 volt square wave that changes frequency with variations in atmospheric pressure. The base is 154 HZ at 29.92" of mercury - dry sunny day at sea level, about 68-72 degrees. You need an oscilloscope or frequency meter to measure it. There a very few DVM’s with a price tag under $40 that will measure frequency, but there are some out there.

Map sensor wiring:
black/white - ground
orange/white or +5 volts power
white/red signal out.

Measure the +5 volt supply using the orange/white and black/white wires
Measure the signal using the black/white and white/red wires.

The MAP/BARO sensor is mounted on the firewall behind the upper manifold on 86-93 Mustangs.

Baro or MAP test using a real frequency meter - run the test key on, engine off. The noise from the ignition system will likely upset the frequency meter. I used a 10 x oscilloscope probe connected from the frequency meter to the MAP/BAP to reduce the jitter in the meter's readout. And oscilloscope is very useful if you have access to one or know of someone who does. With an oscilloscope, you can see the waveform and amplitude.

If it is defective, your air/fuel ratio will be off and the car’s performance & emissions will suffer

Some basic checks you can make to be sure that the sensor is getting power & ground:
Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter.
Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the MAP/BARO sensor and then the black/white wire on the EGR and the same wire on the TPS. It should be less than 1 ohm. Next check the resistance between the black/white wire and the negative battery cable. It should be less than 1.5 ohm.

The following power on check requires you to turn the ignition switch to the Run position.
Use a DVM to check for 5 volts on the orange/white wire. If it is missing, look for +5 volts at the orange/white wire on the TPS or EGR sensors. Use the black/white wire for the ground for the DVM.






Diagrams courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs


Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

O2 sensor wiring harness
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangO2Harness.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pin out
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

87-92 power window wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang87-92 PowerWindowWiring.gif

93 power window wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang93PowerWindows.gif

T5 Cutaway showing T5 internal parts
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/5_Speed_Cutaway_Illustrated.jpg

Visual comparison of the Ford Fuel Injectors, picture by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Ford_Injector_Guide.jpg


Code 41 or 91. Or 43 Three digit code 172 or 176 - O2 sensor indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

Revised 20-July-2017 to add note that the 94-95 uses a 4 wire O2 sensor.

Code 41 is the passenger side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.
Code 91 is the driver side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.

Code 172 is the passenger side sensor as viewed from the driver's seat.
Code 176 is the driver side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.

Code 43 is not side specific according to the Probst Ford Fuel injection book.

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear.

Disconnect the O2 sensor from the harness and use the body side O2 sensor harness as the starting point for testing. Do not measure the resistance of the O2 sensor , you may damage it. Resistance measurements for the O2 sensor harness are made with one meter lead on the O2 sensor harness and the other meter lead on the computer wire or pin for the O2 sensor.

Computer wiring harness connector, computer side.

Backside view of the computer wiring connector:


87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (L\RH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (LH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a Gray/Lt blue wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a Red/Black wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs; note that the 94-95 uses a 4 wire O2 sensor.
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 27 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use pin 32 (gray/red wire) to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer. Using the Low Ohms range (usually 200 Ohms) you should see less than 1.5 Ohms.

87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
From the Dark blue/Lt green wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Dark blue/Lt green wire on the computer pin 43
From the Dark Green/Pink wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Dark Green/Pink wire on the computer pin 29

91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 43
From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 29

94-95 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 29 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 27 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 29
From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 27

There is a connector between the body harness and the O2 sensor harness. Make sure the connectors are mated together, the contacts and wiring are not damaged and the contacts are clean and not coated with oil.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

Check the fuel pressure – the fuel pressure is 37-41 PSI with the vacuum disconnected and the engine idling. Fuel pressure out of range can cause the 41 & 91 codes together. It will not cause a single code, only both codes together.

Make sure you have the proper 3 wire O2 sensors. Only the 4 cylinder cars used a 4 wire sensor, which is not compatible with the V8 wiring harness. The exception is that the 94-95 uses a 4 wire O2 sensor.

Replace the O2 sensors in pairs if replacement is indicated. If one is weak or bad, the other one probably isn't far behind.

Code 41 can also be due to carbon plugging the driver’s side Thermactor air crossover tube on the back of the engine. The tube fills up with carbon and does not pass air to the driver’s side head ports. This puts an excess amount of air in the passenger side exhaust and can set the code 41. Remove the tube and clean it out so that both sides get good airflow: this may be more difficult than it sounds. You need something like a mini rotor-rooter to do the job because of the curves in the tube. Something like the outer spiral jacket of a flexible push-pull cable may be the thing that does the trick.

If you get only code 41 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.


Code 33 - Insufficient EGR flow detected.
Look for vacuum leaks, cracked vacuum lines, failed EGR vacuum regulator. Check to see if you have 10” of vacuum at the EGR vacuum connection coming from the intake manifold. Look for electrical signal at the vacuum regulator solenoid valves located on the rear of the passenger side wheel well. Using a test light across the electrical connector, it should flicker as the electrical signal changes. Remember that the computer does not source any power, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.
Check for resistance between the brown/lt green wire on the EGR sensor and pin 27 on the computer: you should have less than 1.5 ohm.

Backside view of the computer wiring connector:


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif


EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

to check the EGR valve:
bring the engine to normal temp.

connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve or see the EGR test jig drawing below. Connect the test jig or to directly to manifold vacuum.

Do not connect the EGR test jig to the EVR (Electronic Vacuum Regulator).


apply 5in vacuum to the valve. Using the test jig, use your finger to vary the vacuum

if engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.

if engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.

if engine stumbled, connect EGR test jig to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve.
Use your finger to cap the open port on the vacuum tee.
snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
did the vacuum gauge show about 2-5 in vacuum?
if not the EVR has failed

EGR test jig


The operation of the EGR vacuum regulator can be checked by using a test light applied across the wiring connector. Jumper the computer into self test mode and turn the key on but do not start the engine. You will hear all the actuators (including the EVR vacuum regulator) cycle. Watch for the light to flicker: that means the computer has signaled the EGR vacuum regulator successfully.


Code 13 - Key on Engine off - ISC did not respond properly (extends to touch throttle then retracts for KOEO) – ISC

Key on Engine running - Idle Speed Control motor or Air Bypass not controlling idle properly (generally idle too high)

If your idle is above 725 RPM, the computer will set this code. Normal idle speed is 650-725 RPM. Higher than that means that someone has mechanically set the idle speed by use of the idle speed screw, and has effectively disabled to computer’s ability to control idle speed.


You guys with idle/stall problems could save a lot of time chasing your tails if you would go through the Surging Idle Checklist. Over 50 different people contributed information to it. The first two posts have all the fixes, and steps through the how to find and fix your idle problems without spending a lot of time and money. It includes how to dump the computer codes quickly and simply as one of the first steps. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions. You can post questions to that sticky and have your name and idle problem recognized. The guys with original problems and fixes get their posts added to the main fix.

It's free, I don't get anything for the use of it except knowing I helped a fellow Mustang enthusiast with his car. At last check, it had more than 250,000 hits, which indicates it does help fix idle problems quickly and inexpensively.
 

joepawlenty

Active User
Sep 13, 2017
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Sep 24, 2017
#23
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #23
I believe I have solved the idle but now the car wont rev. Watch the video. Have any of you seen this before? View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEqTe6I2QrY
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
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Sep 24, 2017
#24
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #24
Are you pushing the pedal down and nothing is happening or it will not get past 3k
 

joepawlenty

Active User
Sep 13, 2017
22
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Sep 24, 2017
#25
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #25
I push the pedal down and it's stumbles on the way up and then hangs on the way down
 

joepawlenty

Active User
Sep 13, 2017
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Sep 24, 2017
#26
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #26
I push the pedal down and it's stumbles on the way up and then hangs on the way down
karthief said:
Are you pushing the pedal down and nothing is happening or it will not get past 3k
Click to expand...

I push the pedal and it's stumbles on the way up the revs then hangs on the way down
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,951
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203
polk county florida
Sep 24, 2017
#27
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #27
Go back over that surging idle checklist, that would include checking for codes, something we've missed.
 

joepawlenty

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Sep 13, 2017
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Sep 24, 2017
#28
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #28
karthief said:
Go back over that surging idle checklist, that would include checking for codes, something we've missed.
Click to expand...

I have replaced the distributor, spark plugs, coil, tps, act, iac, new o2 sensors, new fuel pump and proper pressure at the schrader valve. done the base idle reset procedure, checked the vacuum leaks throttle body is spottless and clean. No maf so nothing to clean there. The only codes that is being thrown is 42 indicating a rich mixture, base idle is at 10 degress. Anything else worth looking into?
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,951
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203
polk county florida
Sep 24, 2017
#29
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #29
Fuel filter, left front tire pressure?
Seriously though, recheck things, something has a loose connection or come umpluged possibly
Reset the cpmputer? Whats the fuel pressure?
 

joepawlenty

Active User
Sep 13, 2017
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38
Sep 24, 2017
#30
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #30
karthief said:
Fuel filter, left front tire pressure?
Seriously though, recheck things, something has a loose connection or come umpluged possibly
Reset the cpmputer? Whats the fuel pressure?
Click to expand...

Yes already replaced fuel filter with fuel pump. Computer has been reset. I'll keep hunting
 

joepawlenty

Active User
Sep 13, 2017
22
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38
Sep 24, 2017
#31
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #31
joepawlenty said:
Yes already replaced fuel filter with fuel pump. Computer has been reset. I'll keep hunting
Click to expand...

Could this be poor distributor installation? This was my first time working with a distributor
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
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203
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Sep 24, 2017
#32
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #32
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/86-93-mustang-distributor-install.871944/
This may help
 

joepawlenty

Active User
Sep 13, 2017
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Sep 24, 2017
#33
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #33
I just performed the cylinder balance test and it came back cylinders 8 5 4 the 1st time through. 5 and 4 the second and 4 the 3rd. I already did compression checks and all were above 150 except cylinder 5 and it was like 138 if i remember correctly. Does that mean it has to be injectors for all 3 of those cylinders went bad at the same time? That just doesnt seem to add up
 

jrichker

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In Remembrance. Thank you for your contributions
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lowendmac.com
Sep 24, 2017
#34
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #34
joepawlenty said:
I just performed the cylinder balance test and it came back cylinders 8 5 4 the 1st time through. 5 and 4 the second and 4 the 3rd. I already did compression checks and all were above 150 except cylinder 5 and it was like 138 if i remember correctly. Does that mean it has to be injectors for all 3 of those cylinders went bad at the same time? That just doesnt seem to add up
Click to expand...
If the computer spit a code 13, the cylinder balance test will fail and will point at random cylinders. Fix whatever idle problems you have so that the engine idles reasonably well. Fixing the ide DOES NOT mean the you played around with the throttle stop screw to get it to idle at the 625-750 RPM range. The computer need to successfully control the idle with no surge and no stall..

Have you done vacuum checks ?
Did you fix or replace the MAP/BARO sensor that caused the code 21?
 

joepawlenty

Active User
Sep 13, 2017
22
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38
Sep 24, 2017
#35
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #35
jrichker said:
If the computer spit a code 13, the cylinder balance test will fail and will point at random cylinders. Fix whatever idle problems you have so that the engine idles reasonably well. Fixing the ide DOES NOT mean the you played around with the throttle stop screw to get it to idle at the 625-750 RPM range. The computer need to successfully control the idle with no surge and no stall..

Have you done vacuum checks ?
Did you fix or replace the MAP/BARO sensor that caused the code 21?
Click to expand...

Yes checked for vac leaks. There is nothing running from the manifold except the fuel pressure regulator and baro so that was easy. Also compression was checked. All were 150+ except cylinder 5 at 138 or 140 can't remember it was a couple weeks ago now I have been working on this for a month now
 

jrichker

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#36
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #36
joepawlenty said:
Yes checked for vac leaks. There is nothing running from the manifold except the fuel pressure regulator and baro so that was easy. Also compression was checked. All were 150+ except cylinder 5 at 138 or 140 can't remember it was a couple weeks ago now I have been working on this for a month now
Click to expand...
Not vacuum leaks but how much vacuum the engine pulls at 1000-1200 RPM.

Vacuum gauge indications:
 

Dan02gt

mazing how much gas smell came from that tiny hole
20+ Year Stangneter
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Sep 24, 2017
#37
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #37
joepawlenty said:
Yes checked for vac leaks. There is nothing running from the manifold except the fuel pressure regulator and baro so that was easy. Also compression was checked. All were 150+ except cylinder 5 at 138 or 140 can't remember it was a couple weeks ago now I have been working on this for a month now
Click to expand...

Just brainstorming here:

Just MAP and fuel pressure are the only things connected?
Is your vacuum tree that provides vacuum to the brake booster, HVAC, and CC not connected? Are the ports that are not being used and you should have a few capped off good. I've seen vacuum caps dry out crack and leak. How about the PCV? Is it sealed good. The grommet can in the lower manifold can dry out and leak.

Do you still have the evap system? If so the vacuum hoses for it dry out and crack really bad.
 

Dan02gt

mazing how much gas smell came from that tiny hole
20+ Year Stangneter
Mar 2, 2003
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Sep 24, 2017
#38
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #38
jrichker said:
Not vacuum leaks but how much vacuum the engine pulls at 1000-1200 RPM.

Vacuum gauge indications:
Click to expand...

Awesome troubleshooting guide. I had no clue vacuum readings could tell you so much!
 

joepawlenty

Active User
Sep 13, 2017
22
0
1
38
Sep 24, 2017
#39
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #39
jrichker said:
If the computer spit a code 13, the cylinder balance test will fail and will point at random cylinders. Fix whatever idle problems you have so that the engine idles reasonably well. Fixing the ide DOES NOT mean the you played around with the throttle stop screw to get it to idle at the 625-750 RPM range. The computer need to successfully control the idle with no surge and no stall..

Have you done vacuum checks ?
Did you fix or replace the MAP/BARO sensor that caused the code 21?
Click to expand...

Yes checked for vac leaks. There is nothing running from the manifold except the fuel pressure regulator and baro so that was easy. Also compression was checked. All were 150+ except cylinder 5 at 138 or 140 can't remember it was a couple weeks ago now I have been working on this for a month now
Dan02gt said:
Just brainstorming here:

Just MAP and fuel pressure are the only things connected?
Is your vacuum tree that provides vacuum to the brake booster, HVAC, and CC not connected? Are the ports that are not being used and you should have a few capped off good. I've seen vacuum caps dry out crack and leak. How about the PCV? Is it sealed good. The grommet can in the lower manifold can dry out and leak.

Do you still have the evap system? If so the vacuum hoses for it dry out and crack really bad.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I mis spoke. Yes the pcv is still connected along with the brake booster and has been inspected. The evap system however has been deleted by the previous owner. Also this car had no ac from the factory and the heater was also removed
 

joepawlenty

Active User
Sep 13, 2017
22
0
1
38
Sep 24, 2017
#40
  • Sep 24, 2017
  • #40
Dan02gt said:
Awesome troubleshooting guide. I had no clue vacuum readings could tell you so much!
Click to expand...
I Will look into this. I hope these are not The issue
 
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